How is this person, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, our national hero? Worthy of a national mausoleum larger than a city block? What has materialized from all those grainy speeches and dusty declarations? is the Pakistan he envisioned the Pakistan we bear witnessed today?
I know this is Flame of Life’s terrain, so I will make it explicit - this thread is not devoted to mocking this man. Instead, this thread exists ONLY to prove Muhammad Ali Jinnah is worthy of the titles we grant him. If there are no relevant reasons for his acclaim in the Pakistan we have today, just maybe, it’s time we realize he’s not all that and a bag of chips.
Looking back at Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s legacy - there’s absolutely no reason to call him a great leader. Today - say no to qaid-e-azam. He was a dismal failure. Minus breaking India apart, he has achieved nothing he set out to do. He would grant Muslims their rights and promise to extend them to minorities. That has not happened. Minorities face a dismal state of affairs in Pakistan.
Looking back at Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s legacy - there’s absolutely no reason to call him our nation’s father. Today - say no to baba-e-qam. Minus living in Pakistan for the better part of his senior years, his paternal legacy has always preferred India as their homestead. His daughter would run to the United States and marry an Indian industrialist. If you want to know just how significant Jinnah was, ask his Indian grandson.
What Muhammad Ali Jinnah is, is a failed attempt by Pakistanis to idolize their own Gandhi. When Indians have Gandhi to cheer for, we want someone too. What’s happened is, in our attempt to compete with India, we have propped up an utter failure of a statesman as our national hero.We are in dire need of someone to look up to. We exist with the aspirations Jinnah decreed. It’s just too bad that the year 2007 proves all his work was in vain.
Pakistan, sad to say, has only developed a perverted fantasy with this man because it needs to idolize someone. It could have been anyone. Clueless, we lifted Jinnah up on our shoulders. Sometime between 1948 and 2007…we dropped him. No one knows when because most of us believe we’re still carrying him. We’re not. Jinnah’s dead. He’s been long dead. Get over it.
If I was being ruled by the constitution Jinnah promised me, I would have no problem calling him a great leader.
Why call him a great leader or father if his legacy is what we have today? Is this how he led our people? He'd be ashamed of the Pakistan we hold so dear.
If I was being ruled by the constitution Jinnah promised me, I would have no problem calling him a great leader.
Jinnah promised you nothing. Instead Jinnah gave us all a vision. It was upto us to implement that vision and enhance it further. It is our responsibility to figure out the way we can bring progress and prosperity to our land.
As I said, "Urdu-Khans" still living in Bihar are better fed, better clothed, and better cared for. And I feel sorry for you that when you visit your cousins in Patna, you find out that they drive newer cars and live in bigger mansions.
Good constitution brings better governance, and better governance brings more prosperity. That's precisely why Biharis are living much better in Bihar as compared to their brethren in Pakistan.
The reason Pakistan has failed, and Jinnah has failed as a leader - is because people like you make it their duty to draw on ethnic distinctions to subordinate others. You have no idea where I am from, but for some reason or another, you decide to imagine my entire history as you seem fit. You are an ideal example of how his failure as a leader and father has impacted ordinary Pakistanis.
Jinnah was a visionary. Sure he was. In fact, so am I. I envision a lot of things. But that does not make us great leaders or prime examples of fatherly figures. Great leaders are only ordained when the people they led perform their duties. You have admitted yourself, we (the people Jinnah led) have failed. He cannot be a Qaid-e-Azam if he failed to lead his own people - can he? A fatherly figure is one who passes a paternal legacy onto his generations. Standing in Pakistan today, we cannot say he was a Baba-e-Quam if his children are fighting amongst themselves in Balochistan or Islamabad. Can we?
Maybe if this was 1973 I could say Jinnah was something special - but it is 2007. Yes he is a visionary. That is all. We have failed him, and by doing so we have proven his incapacity as a great leader and father.
Maybe if this was 1973 I could say Jinnah was something special - but it is 2007. We have failed him, and by doing so we have proven his incapacity as a great leader and father.
so between 1973 and 2007 you expected his ghost to lead?
easy way to blame your failures as a nation on the founder.
its as if americans start blaming george washington for lack of global healthcare in US :)
so between 1973 and 2007 you expected his ghost to lead?
easy way to blame your failures as a nation on the founder.
its as if americans start blaming george washington for lack of global healthcare in US :)
I expect Pakistanis to protect the constitution between 1973 and 2007. If Pakistanis are going to label Jinnah their great leader and father - they have an obligation to ensure his vision for Pakistan is fulfilled.
If George Washington scribbled in some diary that he'd love to have universal health-care, he would be called a great visionary. If his actions and legacy introduced universal health-care, he would be called a great leader. If his actions and legacy would not introduce health-care, his leadership abilities in the effort to introduce health-care would be a failure.
Jinnah mandated a whole lot. His leadership and subsequent legacy did not bring them to be. Sure he was a visionary - but is it so hard to accept he failed as a leader? And as a "great leader" at that?
As I said, if your (or your family's) standard of living is lower in Karachi compared to Patna, you have every right to criticize Pakistan. We will be happy for you if you'd move to the Lallu Parsad's land.
Yeah Yeah Pakistan has failed and failed miserably. Just stand on the border of Sindh and look into Bharat, and see there are 100 story tall buildings and 50 foot long limos giving rides to the Rajasthanis on the other side.
Stand on the border of Punjab and see that Bharati Punjab has better airports, bigger mansions, and greener farms.
Stand on the border with oil-rich Iran and see that Iranian Balochis are drinking from canals filled with milk and honey.
Stand on the border with Afghanistan and see how Afghani schools are filled with beautiful kids, their women enjoy more freedoms, and their shops are overflowing with wheat and rice.
Sit back and take a deep breath. If any of the above is true then Pakistan surely has failed. Otherwise we all have a saying "Put up or STFU"
forget about Jinnah and the Pakistani nation for the time being…
let me know if you think that Muslims as an ummah are failing or achieving higher grounds in this world?
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AQ,
Yeah, we have failed as an ummah. We have had great leaders come our way that say we should unite as Muslim brothers and sisters while respecting minorities. Jinnah was just one man who did that.
Unfortunately, his leadership has been in vain. Muslims have ignored leaders like him. Look at Pakistan today as a living example of the hypocrisy within the muslim world. We champion Jinnah as a great leader, but when our actions in Balochistan and Islamabad show Muslims hurting other Muslims or Punjabis hurting Sindhis we demonstrate Jinnah failed as a leader.
My post about Jinnah is not so much an attempt to dismiss Jinnah himself, but to mock US for not living up to his legacy. That thread is a direct and blatant attack at us for making Jinnah lose that title of great leader. We have failed him, and as such, he cannot be callled a great leader (because of our shortcomings).
Antiobl,
Your attitude’s not welcome. Perhaps a lesson in reading comprehension will help you understand my definition of success is dependent on the Pakistan envisioned by Jinnah. The two are mutually dependent. Jinnah is only a success if the Pakistan we have today is the one he envisioned. With the same logic, Pakistan is a failure if we do not have the Pakistan envisioned by Jinnah. In essence, the question is not if Pakistan made you richer or smarter. The question is would Jinnah be proud of the Pakistan we have today? This is not about muhajirs feeling cozy. It is about Jinnah’s vision failing.
**Yeah, we have failed as an ummah. **
our spiritual and the foremost leader was Muhammad:saw:.. I do not find courage to apply your logic here now …
We have had great leaders come our way that say we should unite as Muslim brothers and sisters while respecting minorities. Jinnah was just one man who did that.
Leader is the only one who can do that anyway…
Unfortunately, his leadership has been in vain. Muslims have ignored leaders like him.
Therefore, we can not blame him as a failed leader… we should blame us as a failed nation if we really want to hold someone responsible for our own condition…
Look at Pakistan today as a living example of the hypocrisy within the muslim world. We champion Jinnah as a great leader, but when our actions in Balochistan and Islamabad show Muslims hurting other Muslims or Punjabis hurting Sindhis we demonstrate Jinnah failed as a leader.
Not really as I said earlier… we are only demonstrating ourselves as a failed nation… He was the leader who could stand for the whole nation and get them PAKISTAN… Only leaders can lead to such success…
My post about Jinnah is not so much an attempt to dismiss Jinnah himself, but to mock US for not living up to his legacy.
then blame us, not him…
That thread is a direct and blatant attack at us for making Jinnah lose that title of great leader.
Again he’s considered a leader because he lead a nation to get its own homeland.
We have failed him, and as such, he cannot be callled a great leader (because of our shortcomings).
blaming him for our shortcomings is boyond understanding…
seriously! he is suppose to take care of the country from beyond the grave? atleast he delivered what he was trying to achieve.lets jot down what hskhan has done for the good people of pakistan?so what is it that you have done?
and what does one achieve by saying NO to vote for a dead man?how healthy mentality is this? what are we gaining by joining this twisted idiotic jaloos e nut case?
If I was being ruled by the constitution Jinnah promised me, I would have no problem calling him a great leader.
Why call him a great leader or father if his legacy is what we have today? Is this how he led our people? He'd be ashamed of the Pakistan we hold so dear.
Making long story short, may i ask what is your contribution in the development of Pakistan ( please do not provide fake figures)?
And in case u r not satisfied with the Pakistan and u are annoyed by the Title of Quaid-e-Azam for Mohammad Ali Jinnah, then y don't u just leave this country and get the hell out here, eliminate all the roots and ty to call ur self Indian and Mahatama Gandhi your spiritual Leader.
It is a sign of weak mind and personality, that they always complains, they have tons and tons of complains, they are never satisfied, they question each and every thing, yet they themselve never ever do a single task to improve their or country's condition.
I expect Pakistanis to protect the constitution between 1973 and 2007. If Pakistanis are going to label Jinnah their great leader and father - they have an obligation to ensure his vision for Pakistan is fulfilled.
If George Washington scribbled in some diary that he'd love to have universal health-care, he would be called a great visionary. If his actions and legacy introduced universal health-care, he would be called a great leader. If his actions and legacy would not introduce health-care, his leadership abilities in the effort to introduce health-care would be a failure.
Jinnah mandated a whole lot. His leadership and subsequent legacy did not bring them to be. Sure he was a visionary - but is it so hard to accept he failed as a leader? And as a "great leader" at that?
right man, take no personal responsibility, blame the founder, its like a kid blaming his great great great great grandfather for teh fact that teh kid flunked his math class.
Making long story short, may i ask what is your contribution in the development of Pakistan ( please do not provide fake figures)?
And in case u r not satisfied with the Pakistan and u are annoyed by the Title of Quaid-e-Azam for Mohammad Ali Jinnah, then y don't u just leave this country and get the hell out here, eliminate all the roots and ty to call ur self Indian and Mahatama Gandhi your spiritual Leader.
It is a sign of weak mind and personality, that they always complains, they have tons and tons of complains, they are never satisfied, they question each and every thing, yet they themselve never ever do a single task to improve their or country's condition.
:D i do believe this guy wants us to take it out on him
Making long story short, may i ask what is your contribution in the development of Pakistan ( please do not provide fake figures)?
And in case u r not satisfied with the Pakistan and u are annoyed by the Title of Quaid-e-Azam for Mohammad Ali Jinnah, then y don't u just leave this country and get the hell out here, eliminate all the roots and ty to call ur self Indian and Mahatama Gandhi your spiritual Leader.
It is a sign of weak mind and personality, that they always complains, they have tons and tons of complains, they are never satisfied, they question each and every thing, yet they themselve never ever do a single task to improve their or country's condition.
You hit the nail right on the head... And post #2 above is not far off. For such people we have Shri Modi wating with open arms.
The shortcomings of nation should not be credited to Quaid-e-Azam. He was the face of the Pakistan movement, one who fought for freedom against the opposition from most hindus and many 'so called' Muslims of British India. Unlike other muslim majority nations of the Middle East, Pakistan was carved from the struggles of a man who placed the rule of law and constitutional process to achieve his goals.
He made us believe in ourselves, after the Mughals had been defeated. He gave us the pathway to stand proud as an independent Pakistani Muslim nation, one that has made strides despite the socio-political challenges of the times. He embodied the modern Muslim of the Aligarh tradition, where western education and an Islamic identity was not mutually exclusive.
