in line with current mehdi debate…can some one tell me what is the significance of imam mehdi bringing the quran …according to shia …what is the need of imam -12th imam- to bring quran with him…dont we have quran with us…will the quran imam would bring be some different with what we have…
confusing??
i've never heard this before. please cite some references.
Re: regarding mehdi…
**What does the term “revival of Islam” mean, will islam be oneday dead(God forbid), so it need its revival?.. however this question is not confusing **
That's new Bao...
So all this time (nauzubillah) we have been following an incomplete Quran? Who goofed?
mehdi comin is truth and rest is not true.
plz consult a near by authentic mufti
Re: regarding mehdi…
Bro there is certain sect that claims about cetain ayats being changed
by Early Caliphs. They claim that there is Surah" Wilayat".
Brother i have quoted the same refrence some time back …but no answer was given…now ..can some one check this refrence out…ofcourse i have read it from a document presented to the supreme court of pakistan…
Inuit …the link u provided for asool e kafi …it has only 2 volumes of the book…can u provide me with a link where i can find the other volumes…on line for refrence…
so here is the refrence…**it is in urdu and i have not translated it
*** Jub qaem zahir hoon gay tu wo quran ko asli aur sahi taur per parhain gay aur quran ka wo nuskha nikalain gay jis ko ali (R.A) nay likha tha aur imam jaffer nay ye bhe farmayakay jub ali(R.A) nay uss ko likh liya aur poora kar liya to logon say kaha kay ye Allah ki kitab hay theek iss kay mutabik jis tarha Allah nay :saw: per nazil farmai thee main nay iss ko lauhain say jama kia hay-tu in logon nay kaha kay humaray pass ye jamae mushuf maujood hay iss main poora quran hayhum ko tumharay quran ki zaroorat nahin hay-tu ali(r.a) nay farmaya kay khuda ki qasm ab aaj kay baad tum iss ko kabhi nahin daikh sakoo gay.***
(Assool e kafi vol-4 pg444)
ur comment plz..regarding this…as it is written in asool e kafi which is prime hadith book for shia …
well i have found one more interesting thing…opnly 2 pages after the above quotation …
wo quran jo jibrael alihissalam aap :saw: perlay kar nazil hoey thay uss main 17 hazar ayat thee
may be there is a connection between the 2…
Bro Baoo
i highly appreciate your valuable research work. Keep up the
good work.
take care
Re: regarding mehdi....
Bao
Plz give the ref for the website that you just mentioned.
Oh please can we have some unity for the love of God??
Shia's believe Ali compiled a nice 'tafseer' in that copy and also kept that Qur'an in the order of revelation.. his 'notes' were supposed to be the 'final judgement' on matters which are argued today in the light of Qur'an.
That's it.. no new verses.. or ayats or other sensational tidbits.
and people who are fond of picking up these ditties from sectarian books should spend some time reading thier own.. there is enough tantalizing, mind boggling, absurd, ridiculous and bizarre material in there to keep y'all occupied for months if not years.
i agree PA.
atleast in mainstream shia thought there is no distinction between sunni and shia quran, maybe we prefer shia tafseers over sunni ones. although i dont discount kooks who would believe anything although i am yet to come across this particular brand.
we've got 4 Qurans in our house and 3 of them are published by sunni publishers.
end this nonsense.
;salam:
brothers it is very heartning to hear that u dont subscribe to such non sense......
as far as PA is concerned.....brother the quotation clearly mention otherwise...read it again in conjunction with the other quote......
rehman......the site is this
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
;salam:
brothers it is very heartning to hear that u dont subscribe to such non sense......
as far as PA is concerned.....brother the quotation clearly mention otherwise...read it again in conjunction with the other quote......
rehman......the site is this
[/QUOTE]
Thanks Bao. The only thing absent from the SITE is
information about Prophet Muhammad(SAW).
**The Quran Compiled by Imam Ali (AS) * *
There is no dispute among Muslim scholars, whether they are Sunni or Shia, concerning the fact that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS), possessed a special transcript of the text of Quran which he had collected himself, and he was THE FIRST who compiled Quran. There are a great number of traditions from Sunni and Shia which states that after the death of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF), Imam Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until he collects together the Quran.
**Sunni references: * *
There are also traditions from the Imams of Ahlul Bayt which tell us that
this was done by Imam Ali by order of the Holy Prophet (See al-Bihar, v92, pp 40-41,48,51-52).
This transcript of Quran which compiled by Imam Ali (AS) had the following unique specifications:
a) It was collected according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in
which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Muhammad Ibn Sireen (33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said: "If that transcript were in our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it."
**Sunni References: * *
It is according to this transcript that Sunni scholars relate that the first Chapter of Quran which was sent down to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was Chapter al-Iqra (al-Alaq, Ch. 96).
**Sunni References: * *
As you know the Chapter al-Alaq is not at the beginning of the present Quran. Also Muslims agree that the verse (5:3) was among one of the last revealed verses of Quran (but not the very last one), yet it is not toward the end of the present Quran. This clearly proves that although the Quran that we have available is complete, it is not in the order that has been revealed. These few misplacements were done by some companions on purpose at worst, or out of ignorance at least.
It was for this reason that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS) frequently stated in his sermons: "Ask me before you lose me. By Allah, if you ask me about anything that could happen up to the Day of Judgment, I will tell you about it. Ask me, for, by Allah, you will not be able to ask me a question about anything without my informing you. Ask me about the Book of Allah, for by Allah, there is no verse about which I do not know whether it was sent down at night or during the day, or whether it was revealed on a plain or in a mountain."
**Sunni References: * *
b) This transcript contained commentary and hermeneutic interpretation
(Tafsir and Ta'wil) from the Holy Prophet some of which had been sent down as revelation but NOT as a part of the text of Quran. A small amount of such texts can be found in some traditions in Usul al-Kafi. These pieces of information were the Divine commentary of the text of Quran which were revealed along with Quranic verses. Thus the commentary verses and Quranic verses could sum up to 17000 verses. As Sunnis know, Hadith al-Qudsi (the Hadith in which the speaker is Allah) is also direct revelation, but they are not a part of Quran. In fact Quran testifies that anything that Prophet said was (either direct or indirect) revelation (See Quran 53:3-4). The direct revelation includes the interpretation/commentary of the Quran.
In addition, this unique transcript contained the information from the Holy Prophet about which verse was abrogated and which was abrogating, which verse was clear (Muhkam) and which was ambiguous (Mutashabih), which verse was general and which was specific.
c) This unique transcript also contained references to the persons, places etc., about which the verses were revealed, what is called "Asbab al- Nuzul". Since the Commander of Believers was aware of these facts, he frequently said: "By Allah, no verse has been sent down without my knowing about whom or what it was revealed and where it was revealed. My Lord has gifted me with a mind which has a quick and retaining understanding, and a tongue which speaks eloquently."
**Sunni References: * *
After he compiled this transcript, Imam Ali (AS) took it and presented it to the rulers who came after the Holy Prophet, and said: "Here is the book of Allah, your Lord, in the order that was revealed to your Prophet." but they did not accept it and replied: "We have no need of this. We have with us what you possess." Thereupon, Imam Ali (AS) took the transcript back and informed them that they will never see it again. It is reported that Imam Ali recited the latter part of the following verse of Quran:
"And when Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to clarify it to mankind and not to hide its (clarification); but they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some miserable gain! and what an evil was the bargain they made!" (Quran 3:187)
By "its clarification", Imam Ali meant the unique divine commentaries.The Commander of Believers then concealed that transcript, and after him it was passed to the Imams who also kept it concealed. It remained concealed with the Imams, one after the other to this day, because they wished to be only one sequence of Quran among the Muslims. Because otherwise if people have had two different sequences, it might later result to some alteration in Quran by some sick-minded people. They wished people have strictly one sequence of Quran. The Quran and its commentary which were collected by Imam Ali (AS) is not available for any Shia in the world except to the Imam Mahdi (AS). If the transcript of the Commander of Believers had been accepted, that would have been the Quran with unique commentary in the hand of people, but it turned out to be otherwise.
This gives the meaning of the traditions in Usul al-Kafi which say that no one but the Commander of Believers and the later Imams had the Quran in the order it was revealed, and that the Quran which they had contains "what can be understood of the heaven, etc." and "the Knowledge of the Book, all of it," because they were the commentaries and interpretations noted in the transcript of Imam Ali directly from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF). Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, said:
"And We have sent down on you a Book in which is the clarification of ALL the things." (Quran 16:89)
Sometimes the word "tahrif" is used in some traditions, and it must be made clear that the meaning of this word is changing of something from its proper place to another place, like changing the right position of sentence, or giving it a meaning other than its true or intended meaning. Therefore, it has absolutely nothing to do with addition or subtraction from the text. It is thus with this meaning that the Quran states:
“Some of the Jews distort (yuharrifuna) words from their meaning”
(Quran 4:46).
This meaning of “tahrif”, i.e., changing of meaning or changing the context, as it appears in the Quran, has not only been applied in the Muslim community to the verses of the Quran but also to the ahadith of the Holy Prophet, even by rulers who have been prepared to use Islam to their own personal advantage. It is this “tahrif”, with this meaning, that the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt have constantly sought to oppose. As one example, Imam al-Baqir (AS) complained about the situation of the Muslims and their corrupt rulers, and said:
“One of the manifestations of their rejecting the Book (of Allah behind their backs) (see Quran 2:101) is that they have fixed its words. but they have altered the limits (of its command) (harrafu hududah). They have (correctly) narrated it, but they do not observe (what) it (says). Ignorant people delight in their preservation of its narration, but the knowledgeable people deplore their ignoring to observe (what) it (says).”
***Shi’i references: ** *
This use of “tahrif” is taken as a definition for the word wherever it appears in the ahadith of the Imams, similar to what Quran (4:46) has used.
It is necessary to emphasize here that all grand scholars of the Imami Shia are in agreement that the Quran which is at present among the Muslims is the very same Quran that was sent down to the Holy Prophet, and that it has not been altered. Nothing has been added to it, and nothing is missing from it. The Quran which was compiled by Imam Ali (excluding the commentaries) and the Quran that is in the hand of people today, are identical in terms of words and sentences. No word, verse, chapter is missing. The only difference is that the current Quran (collected by the companions) is not in the order that was revealed.
Re: Re: regarding mehdi....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
Bro there is certain sect that claims about cetain ayats being changed
by Early Caliphs. They claim that there is Surah" Wilayat".
[/QUOTE]
Although, Protection of Quran is the Promise of Allah the Almighty. It is in Ahle Sunnah Books that certain Chapters of Quran have been missing or changed after the Holy Prophet (PBUH).
When Shias point out these things from their books. Some people with lack of knowledge and understanding, think that Shia themselves don’t believe in Quran and its protection by Allah.
Non-serious religious so-called leaders forget their own books while blaming other schools of thoughts in Islam. For evidence please reference back to your own books. And before rejecting first define the rules of authentication and see others with the same eye.
That is why ex-President of Pakistan Ghulam Ishaq Khan said that Sunnies themselves have to correct their own books and text before blaming shias. Because same kind of things are present in their own authentic books for which they claim that it is Sahih(correct).
Praise be to Allaah.
With regard to Soorat al-Wilaayah, some of the Shi’ah scholars and imams have stated that it exists. Any of them who denies that does so by way of taqiyah (dissimulation). One of those who clearly stated that it exists is Mirza Hussein Muhammad Taqiy al-Noori al-Tubrusi (d. 1320 AH). He wrote a book in which he claimed that the Qur’aan had been distorted and that the Sahaabah has concealed some parts of it, including Soorat al-Wilaayah. The Raafidis honoured him after his death by burying him in al-Najaf. This book by al-Tubrusi was published in Iran in 1298 AH, and when it was published there was a great deal of controversy because they wanted the doubts about the validity of the Qur’aan, which were known only to their leaders, to remain scattered throughout hundreds of their major books, and they did not want that to be compiled in one book. At the beginning of his book he said:
“This is a good and noble book entitled Fasl al-khitaab fi ithbaat tahreef Kitaab Rabb il-Arbaab (Decisive comment on the distortion of the Book of the Lord of Lords)… He mentioned aayahs and soorahs which he claims that the Sahaabah concealed, including ‘Soorat al-Wilaayah,’” the text of which, according to them, and as quoted in this book, is:
“O you who believe, believe in the Prophet and the Wali * whom We have sent to guide you to the straight path, a Prophet and a Wali who are part of one another, and I am the All-Knowing, All-Aware…”
And they have another soorah which they call Soorat al-Noorayn: “O you who believe, believe in the two lights (al-noorayn) which We have sent down to you to recite to you My Verses and to warn you of the punishment of a great Day. They are part of one another and I am the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. Those who fulfil the covenant with Allaah and His Messenger mentioned in the verses (of the Qur’aan), the Gardens of delight will be theirs, but those who disbelieve after they believed by breaking their covenant and disobeying the command of the Prophet, they will be thrown into Hell. They have wronged themselves and gone against the wasiyyah of the Prophet (i.e., the appointment of ‘Ali as khaleefah), and they will be given to drink of boiling water…” and other such nonsense.
You can see the entire soorah, along with a telegraphic picture of the Persian mus-haf at the following site:
http://arabic.islamicweb.com/shia/nurain.htm
Prof. Muhammad ‘Ali Sa’oodi – who was one of the greatest experts of the Ministry of Justice in Egypt – examined an Iranian mus-haf kept by the Orientalist Bryan and he obtained a copy of this soorah; above the lines of Arabic script there is written the translation in the Iranian language.
As it was mentioned by al-Tubrusi in his book, Fasl al-khitaab fi ithbaat tahreef Kitaab Rabb il-Arbaab, it is also mentioned in their book Dabastan Madhaahib, which is in Farsi, written by Muhsin Faani al-Kashmiri. This book has been printed numerous times in Iran, and this false soorah was quoted from it by the Orientalist Noeldeke in his book The History of Qur’anic Manuscripts, 2/120, and was published by the French Asian newspaper in 1842 (p. 431-439).
It was also mentioned by Mirza Habibullaah al-Haashimi al-Kho’i in his book Manhaaj al-Baraa’ah fi Sharh Nahj al-Balaaghah (2/217); and by Muhammad Baaqir al-Majlisi in his book Tadhkirat al-A’immah (p. 19, 20) in Farsi, (published by) Manshoorat Mawlana, Iran.
See also al-Khutoot al-‘Areedah li’l-Asas allati qaama ‘alayha deen al-Shi’ah by Muhibb al-Deen al-Khateeb.
This claim of theirs is a denial of the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):
“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”
[al-Hijr 15:9]
Hence the Muslims are unanimously agreed that anyone who claims that anything in the Qur’aan has been altered or changed is a kaafir.
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:
The same applies to those among them who claim that some verses of the Qur’aan have been taken away or concealed, or who claim to have some esoteric interpretations that exempt him from having to do the actions prescribed in sharee’ah etc., who are called al-Qaraamitah and al-Baatiniyyah, and who include al-Tanaasukhiyyah [names of esoteric sects]. There is no dispute that they are kaafirs.
Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 3/1108-1110.
Ibn Hazm said:
The view that the Qur’aan has been altered is blatant kufr and is a rejection of what the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said.
Al-Fasl fi’l-Ahwa’ wa’-Milal wa’l-Nihal, 4/139.
And Allaah knows best.*
How fast you guys are in issuing the fatawas of kufr for your fellow Muslims.
Following are two ahadeeths of Prophet Muhammad :saw: . Accept it as a gift.
Ibn Umar relates that the Holy Prophet said: When a man addresses his brother with: O disbeliever; one of them will certainly deserve the title; the one addressed if he is such, else it will revert to him who uttered it. (Bokhari and Muslim)
Abu Dharr relates that he heard the Holy Prophet :saw: say: If one of you should call another a disbeliever or an enemy of Allah and he in fact not be such, the title will revert to the one who uttered it. (Bokhari and Muslim)
Riyadh as-Salihin (Gardens of the righteous), by Imam Nawawi, Ahadeeth # 1738 and 1739 respectively.
–
Wa’Salam
Ali
Assalamu Alaykum,
Why the debate after Allah's promise that He will protect the Qur'an?
Why accept that Sunni books are right or Shi'ite books are right that Qur'an has been altered or what not?
I think only one word is right - the Word of Allah - that Qur'an is protected by Allah. Any claim otherwise cannot be accepted.
Doesn't Allah's promise suffice for us? If it does, Qur'an is as it was supposed to be with us.
Best Regards.
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