Re: Reformers Or Vengeful Opportunits
What problem they have with Islam? I know Irshad Manji wrote a book about "Trouble with Islam" what is it about?
Re: Reformers Or Vengeful Opportunits
^ Dude...Its like saying why does darkness have a problem with light.
Re: Reformers Or Vengeful Opportunits
What's the political atmosphere under which they've expressed their views? To whom have they looked for support? How many Muslim supporters have they won with their disparaging, antagonistic (sp?), and often insulting rhetoric? Are these the actions of true reformers?
I think I know now the one who made the controversial movie by combining Quranic verses and nudity - she's the european african? I remember seeing a 60 minutes on her - she was nuts talking about Islam oppresses women, etc etc, and she was making up all these crazy verses and rulings. I had no clue where she was getting her "proof" from.
Anyway, some of these people are misled, and some are biased because of their past - just as you said. And to answer your questions - I'm not sure if politial atmosphere CREATES these people. Its more like it just shines light on them. So, maybe you or I have something sensible to say about Islam, but it will never get to the media, but people like these get to the media easily. Because its what the media wants.
I can't speak for all of them, because like I said, I don't know every individual's story, but if someone is seriously making Islam look bad and insulting it and saying its so oppressive, etc, I don't think many people are actually listening (among muslims). I don't think they're doing much reforming of any kind, because its not like they've actually lifted a finger to help any muslim ever in their life.
But what my point is - that we as a society really ought to work with each other and support each other. Even if we do make mistakes or even if we don't agree on every little detail on life. Some things - you just have to let go. Would you rather harass some strong-minded woman about her illegit child and risk her turning against you and other muslims, or would you rather just work with the situation and not chastise her (after all, no one is perfect, and the kids already born, so what's the use of bothering her about it?)
I'd prefer to not bother her about it, because there is always the chance that later on she'll become a better muslim and that she'll raise her child with good Islamic values. As oppose to bothering the heck out of her, and make her rebel against Islam, and pass that onto her child.
I actually know of an example of a muslim girl who got pregnant out of wedlock, and now she's more of a believing muslim.
People change, and people have different circumstances. To blame these women is one thing, because they ARE doing something wrong. I particularly disliked the movie that this woman made, and I don't think that you can use Islam to justify homosexuality as Irshad Manji tries. But at the same time, are others any better for harassing these women? Is that the example the Prophet set? I mean, we keep coming back to the importance of the Prophet and how important it is to follow the sunnah, etc etc. Well, when it comes to a hadith that is about hijab or a beard, we're quick to follow and try to enforce it. When it comes to the many more hadith that talk about how to treat one another, etc, we conveniently don't care to implement them in our lives. And this isn't just for you or anyone else, its for muslims in general. We've become horrible people. And ladies like these ones are proof of it.
So, what's the real problem? People converting out of Islam who are peeved off at muslims, or muslims for peeving off other people?
Re: Reformers Or Vengeful Opportunits
^ Good post :)
Re: Reformers Or Vengeful Opportunits
Neither.
Real problem is your long winded post.
Learn to be succinct and concise.
Re: Reformers Or Vengeful Opportunits
At least you read it. That's progress, my friend.
Re: Reformers Or Vengeful Opportunits
I didn't. I skipped to the punch line -- for the lack of a better word.
Re: Reformers Or Vengeful Opportunits
Okay. At least you read the punchline. I likey.