Saw this yesterday, might as well post it here since i think it is extremely relevant: Aid or heroin, Afghanistan warns, BBC, 17 March 2003
…] The Afghan government’s warning of dire consequences should the rebuilding grind to a halt should figure largely in the West’s strategic calculations, said Dan Plesch, senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute. “Shipping tonnes of heroin at Europe and the US might well be described as a form of asymmetric warfare,” he told BBC News Online,
…the Afghan government, officials say, is **afraid that it will be forgotten in the rush by US and other Western companies to do business with a post-Saddam Iraqi regime.
Much of the country remains in the hands of warlords who pay lip service to their alliance with the US and the government in Kabul, while running their territory effectively as a feudal fiefdom.**
The U.S. doesn't have mind control over everyone in Afghanistan. Freedoms have been reached but things aren't going to change quickly as fighting has not even ceased yet. Afghanistan has been lost for two decades, give it some time before once again blaming the U.S.
"The United States has vowed not to abandon Afghanistan in any war against Iraq as it pledged a further 820 million dollars to help rebuild the shattered country."
You got to have it to abandon it, the follwoing pretty much sums it up....
** Much of the country remains in the hands of warlords who pay lip service to their alliance with the US and the government in Kabul, while running their territory effectively as a feudal fiefdom. **
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Afghanistan has a long way to go, you do understand they have been at war for 20 years, right?
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Under, you can change systems for some while but not traditions and culture.
You still say the same women with hijab walking around the afghan streets you see the same men who oppress their wifes around the houses.
I think Karzai has limited control over Afghanistan anyway... plus he is not serious about eliminating poppy/opium, as this is his duck which lays golden eggs.
He will milk this issue to get as much aid as he can from the western countries. Kinda looks like blackmail to me, but oh well ...
Under, you can change systems for some while but not traditions and culture.
You still say the same women with hijab walking around the afghan streets you see the same men who oppress their wifes around the houses.
So what kind of freedom are you talking about?
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Where boys and GIRLS can go to school, where women can go outside there homes without a male family member and not be executed for it. Being able to fly kites and listen to music. Freedoms that people take for granted but weren't allowed under the Taliban rule. There is much work to still be done no doubt but there have been changes for the good.
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*Originally posted by Abdali: *
You got to have it to abandon it, the follwoing pretty much sums it up....
** Much of the country remains in the hands of warlords who pay lip service to their alliance with the US and the government in Kabul, while running their territory effectively as a feudal fiefdom. **
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if condtions are that bad how could all the refugees returned to afganistan?
Where boys and GIRLS can go to school, where women can go outside there homes without a male family member and not be executed for it. Being able to fly kites and listen to music. Freedoms that people take for granted but weren't allowed under the Taliban rule. There is much work to still be done no doubt but there have been changes for the good.
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If you are not aware of the Afghan people then you shouldnt argue on these points. I know well enough how the Afhgan live now and lived years back even before Taliban.
My anchestors were from Afghanistan so I know exactly what Im talking about.
There are those who listen to music and fly kites and women go out from houses but please do make a big differention between the classes existing in a society!
There is middle class, low and the high class and I can ensure you that the high class is still doing what they did years back even at talibans time and the middle class did the same what they did in past.
Low class was put under pressure by Taliban no doubt, there were some laws implemented which were wrong and unhuman but did only impact on the minority.
Those who oppressed their women are still there not just Taliban but many others. Or do you think NA was made of a different "wood" than the Taliban?
You know, Ali_R, the US didn't reduce an Afghan nirvana to rubble. It may have turned some small stones into even smaller stones but that's about it.
The best vote on whether things are better in Afghanistan today than things were under the Taliban is the vote of the Afghan people as reflected by the number of refugees then and now. There were X amount of refugees hanging out in Pakistan and other places during the Taliban days. There are Y amount of refugees hanging out in Pakistan today. It is my understanding that about 2 million or more have returned to their homes.
It's going to take a lot longer than one year to repair 25+ years of damage caused by warfare. Apparently progress is being made.
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The best vote on whether things are better in Afghanistan today than things were under the Taliban is the vote of the Afghan people as reflected by the number of refugees then and now. There were X amount of refugees hanging out in Pakistan and other places during the Taliban days. There are Y amount of refugees hanging out in Pakistan today. It is my understanding that about 2 million or more have returned to their homes.
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It's going to take a lot longer than one year to repair 25+ years of damage caused by warfare. Apparently progress is being made.
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Myvoice, can you show me some validate facts on that X, Y equation you made up!
It's going to take a lot longer than one year to repair 25+ years of damage caused by warfare. Apparently progress is being made.
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Myvoice, can you show me some validate facts on that X, Y equation you made up!
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When I've got some time after the war I'll try to find a few links for you that comment upon the refugee situation today versus before. Maybe OhioGuy will read this thread and be able to post a few. He always has ready sources of information. Sometimes I think he works for the CIA.
Before the former Taliban regime was overthrown in a U.S.-led war in late 2001, an estimated 4 million Afghans were in exile, mostly in Pakistan and Iran.
More than 1.8 million Afghans had returned, mostly from Pakistan, before the overland repatriations were stopped last November after snow made the roads impassable.
A good peice by Said Tayeb Jawad, Karzai’s chief of staff, on the need for, and thus far lack of, international involvement in the disarmament of Afghanistan:
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Afghanistan has a long way to go, you do understand they have been at war for 20 years, right?
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Yet in one year after the American war the poppy crop has gone up by 1400%, and the warlords control all but one province of Afghanistan. Those are the American "achievments" in just one year.
No point in playing the blame game, it was not the US soldiers that are harvesting this crop, its the Afghanis themselves... You all love em so much that you dont have the heart to blame 'em for their own actions.