Recently discovered Science in the 1400 yr old Qur'an

I forgot to add that, Robert. of course you have to have some criteria, for no classification could be done without that.

Hamza, the problem with the religious people is that they want to fit everything into their beliefs, so that they could call themselves enlightened. right now you are saying that the "seven" layers of atmosphere are the seven heavens while each one makes the "earth" for the next one. that is only because there is no scientific evidence to support there are seven earths. and the Layers of Earth are divided into Three only (crust, mantle and core). even if today that classification is replaced with another one that contained seven layers, you will then change your statement. and say " aha. see God had told us 1400 years ago. now it is being proven by science"..

the thing is that anything that is disproved by Science is never taken as an evidence that there couls something be wrong with the faith.

so the matter is like this. when something that is in the religion is supported by scientific evidence, you take is as evidence of the religion's truth. if something comes up against the beliefs, then you dont want to to own that evidence until something favorable comes up.

Re: Recently discovered Science in the 1400 yr old Qur'an

^ latest stunt by Hamza81

He just replaced ozonosphire with Magnetosphere.
None of the above are considered an atmospheric layer according to science.
Did anybody notice, how desperately he is trying to prove that science claims there are 7 layers.

Of course these are just scientific claims and i have mentioned in one of the articles if you read it carefully that:

"We know that science has not yet been able to determine the boundaries of even the "Sama’ i Dunya". It is therefore not only improbable but impossible to explain this verse in scientific terms. The reason, as should be quite clear, is the limit of our scientific knowledge."

In the articles they are scientific claims just like scientific claims made by any other scientist! but it is beyond our understanding to be certain that what God is referring to to be either the seven layers of the sky of the earth or as in the seven layers of the universe or even something else that is not discovered yet! Scientist will always agree to disagree so nothing you say Robert is going to be agreed on by all scientists same way nothing that is mentioed in the articles is going on be agreed by all scientists!
So all we can do is agree to disagree! Scientists will NEVER agree or conform with the beliefs of any religion because they can only say how things happen but NEVER WHY THINGS HAPPEN!

Re: Recently discovered Science in the 1400 yr old Qur'an

^
Its not about science, scientist or scientific limits.
Its not about religion or religous interpretations, or which is better science or religion.

Its about you, or what you are doing here.
Using lies to prove your point.
and shamelessly changing your statements.

for example, just compare the names of atmosphere layers you have mentioned. They keep changing in each of your posts.

The only liar here is you who claimed to be a muslim in your earlier posts whilst fiercly trying to content with the scientific claims made and failing miserably! I have provided what you want but nothing will be good enough for people who don't want to believe! You asked me a question earlier that what does the 7 heavens refer to and i gave you the answer:

"We know that science has not yet been able to determine the boundaries of even the "Sama’ i Dunya". It is therefore not only improbable but impossible to explain this verse in scientific terms. The reason, as should be quite clear, is the limit of our scientific knowledge."

*But then i also mentioned what it could be! In that it could be either the 7 layers of the sky or universe but we don;t know because of the limit of our scientific knowledge! Then you stated your opinion from some scientists stating that there are only 6 layers in the sky and i stated my opinion from some scientists stating that there are 7 layers and i gave you the example of both those opinions that one set of scientists state the 7th layer to be the ozonosphere and the other to be the magnetosphere! I have not said to you this is a fact based on what the Qur'an states but these are scientific claims made from what we think the heavens could mean just like scientists constantly claim what they think this or that is even if their not sure! *

Its sad to see Robert that you have been trying so hard yet failing so miserably to refute any of the claims made! In regards to science we can all agree to disagree because scientists will never agree on one thing but there is no doubt that what the Qur'an contains is miraculous and only if you read it for yourself and look into the deeper meanings would you see for yourself that the Qur'an can ONLY BE ALLAH'S WORD!Thank you for reading!

The descriptions of creation in the Qur'an are not intended as dry historical accounts, but rather to engage the reader in contemplating the lessons to be learned from it. The act of creation, therefore, is frequently spoken of as a way of drawing the reader into thinking about the order in all things, and the All-Knowing Creator Who is behind it all. For example:

"Verily in the heavens and the earth are signs for those who believe. And in the creation of yourselves, and the fact that animals are scattered (through the earth), are signs for those of assured faith. And in the alternation of night and day, and that fact that Allah sends down sustenance from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in the change of the winds, are signs for those who are wise" (45:3-5).

and if both of them operate in different cosmoses, i wonder why religious people jump at every opportunity to prove their beliefs true when something that is in agreement with their beliefs is brought into light by science.
besides it is more important to know the HOW than the WHY of a thing. without that HOW you wont be able to build aircrafts and computers. who cares about the WHY anyway?

What are you going on about? I was just making a point that scientists can ONLY ever try their best with the knowledge they have to explain how but they can NEVER explain why things happen! I never put importance into one thing or the other! Science always needs a rational answer to everything thats why it will NEVER agree with religion! There's nothing wrong with proving to a non muslim that even modern science conforms to the science and the processes of the way Alah said he created things!As i said in my last post "The descriptions of creation in the Qur'an are not intended as dry historical accounts, but rather to engage the reader in contemplating the lessons to be learned from it. The act of creation, therefore, is frequently spoken of as a way of drawing the reader into thinking about the order in all things, and the All-Knowing Creator Who is behind it all."

Re: Recently discovered Science in the 1400 yr old Qur'an

order is something in which you know what is coming next. for example, in real numbers we see an order. we know that 2 follows 1, and 5 follows 4 and so on and so forth.

you keep referring to the order in all things. you might be surprised to know that most of this world does not have much order. most of it is run through probability, and probability is chance, not order. even the process of creation, in which the sperm is fused into an egg to make a zygote, is chance: any sperm has the equal chance of fertilizing the egg thus making a zygote. some of those sperms are strong and others are weak. and you have no way of knowing whihc one will make the baby. had there been an order in which the sperms did the fertilizing you'd know what was coming. you dont see the millions of sperms but what you see is the final product.

I mean God wants you to know him through the order he created in the process of creation, but then on close inspection we find that there is no order. whats up with that?

I know what your next argument will be: you will point towards the process after the zygote formation.
I will post the answer if you indeed make that your next argument.

Take a look around you from where you sit. You will notice that everything in the room is ** ‘made’**: the walls, the upholstery, the ceiling, the chair where you sit, the book you hold in your hand, the glass on the table and countless other details. None of them happen to exist in your room of their own accord. Even the simple loops of the carpet were made by someone: they did not appear spontaneously or by chance.
The claim of the theory of evolution, the unique method of denying the existence of Allah, is no different than this. According to the theory, lifeless atoms formed amino acids by chance, amino acids formed proteins by chance, and finally proteins formed living creatures again by chance. However, the probability of a living creature being formed by coincidence is less than the probability of the Eiffel Tower being formed in the same manner, because even the simplest human cell is more sophisticated than any man-made structure in the world.
How is it possible to think that the balance in the world came about by coincidence when the extraordinary harmony of nature is observable even with the naked eye? It is the most unreasonable claim to say that the universe, each point of which suggests the existence of its Creator, has come into being on its own.
Therefore, there should be an owner of the balance visible everywhere from our body to the farthest corners of the inconceivably vast universe. So, who is this Creator that ordained everything so subtly and created all?
He cannot be any material being present within the universe, because His must be a will that existed before the universe and created the universe thereupon. The Almighty Creator is One Whom everything finds existence, yet Whose existence is without any beginning or end.
Religion teaches us the identity of our Creator Whose existence we discover with our reason. Through what He has revealed to us as religion, we know that He is Allah, the Compassionate and the Merciful, Who created the heavens and the earth from nothing.

Check this short video out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efWcS7yTIJo

Re: Recently discovered Science in the 1400 yr old Qur'an

Scientists don't always agree on one thing, but it doesn't mean anything can fly. There are things which they agree on. Similarly there are things which they never claimed, so should not be attributed to them. For example, magnetosphere is an atmosphere layer. nobody claimed this.

your argument is very old and very cliched. it has been refuted. but I Wont go into the details as i dont want to talk to a wall.

Is that all you can say on the matter? I was expecting more than that from you! Or is it that you can't refute it because you know there is something out there but u just don't know what it is!
Consider this story:

The Story of a Scholar and an Atheist



There is one story of a Scholar and an Atheist. Long ago an Atheist did not believe the existence of God. He asked a scholar for a debate about the existence of God. Among the questions are: “Does God exist?” and “If God exists then where is God?”

Then they decided when and where the debate takes place

The Atheist and the villagers were waiting for the scholar, but the scholar did not come right on time. When the Atheist and the villagers thought that the scholar will not come for the debate, then the scholar showed up.

“I am sorry to keep you waiting for so long. But the rain is so heavy so the river floods. The bridge drifted away so I could not cross it. Thank God suddenly there was a big tree fell down. Then the branches cut out by themselves so the trunk was branchless. After that the trunk was cut and a hole was created so it became a boat. So I used the boat and crossed the river,” said the scholar.

The Atheist and the villagers were laughing. The Atheist said to the villagers, “This scholar is mad. How can a tree became a boat by itself with no one made it? How can a boat exist with no maker who made it?”

The villagers were laughing out loud.

After the people calmed down, the scholar said, “If you believe that the boat could not exist without its maker, then how could you believe the earth, sky, and its contents exist without its creator? Which is the most difficult to make? Making a boat or creating the earth, sky, and its contents?

Hearing that, they realized that they trapped with their own statement.

“Then answer my second question,” said the Atheist. “If God exists, why can’t He be seen? Where is God?” The Atheist thought since he cannot see God then God does not exist

The scholar slapped the Atheist’s cheek hardly so the Atheist felt so much pain.

“Why did you slap me? It’s very painful”

The scholar asked, “There is no pain. I cannot see pain. Where is pain?”

"The pain is here,” the Atheist pointed his cheek.

“No, I cannot see pain. Do you see the pain?” asked the scholar to the villagers.

The villagers said, “No!"

“So, though we cannot see the pain does not mean that the pain does not exist. So is the God. Just because we cannot see the God does not mean that God does not exist. Though we cannot see Him, but we can see His creations.” Said the scholar

The argument of the scholar is very simple. Yet, the argument that God does not exist just because human’s sense could not sense the existence of God is very wrong.

How many things that could not be seen or heard by people but exist?

We cannot see the Wind but the Wind exists. We cannot see electricity (what you can see is wire) but electricity exist.

How many things in the sky that billions light years away, even trillions light years away that could not be seen by people yet the things exist?

How many molecular things even nucleus (hair divided in millions) that cannot be seen by people yet exist? People could only see those things by using a very powerful microscope.

How many waves (radio, electromagnetic, electricity, etc) that cannot be seen yet exist?

Those things exist, yet the human sense is very limited so it cannot sense their existence.

The human ability to see colors limited to certain frequencies. People only could hear limited frequencies. Sometimes the light not only very dazzling but also could make people blind. So is the sound. Certain sound could not be heard by human sense while other sound which is very loud could destroy human‘s hearing
If to sense the creatures of God, sometimes people could not do it, even more to sense the Creator: God!

Re: Recently discovered Science in the 1400 yr old Qur'an

no i have the arguments to refute those. but since you wont really listen, and you wont really reply to them i did not write them.
further, your story is cliche'd too.
I did not ask to see God. I know there are many things that you can not see yet they exist. but the thing is that there is evidence for them. and my point is that: there is no strong evidence for the existence of God. what you put as the evidence is something that could be better explained by other things.
my point is not that Evolution is something that is the only alternative to God. but it is better than the God Hypothesis in several ways.

Re: Recently discovered Science in the 1400 yr old Qur'an

Can I make up stories like this?
What kind of qualification needed, before you are allowed to make up stories like above?

Carl Sagan once said "if by 'God' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."

Don't shoot me. I am just a messenger.

I wanna ask you a question how was the universe created?

I guess we all are looking into it, in our own ways.

Peace Robert

The 7 layers of the atmosphere are only contained within the first layer of the sky. The layers are implied as seen by eye or by visual aid, but the layers in the atmosphere are not visual layers but rather chemical layers.

The atmosphere boundary - the shooting star distance from land
Planets - these have a different motion to stars in the sky
Stars - these seem fixed
Galaxy - our own galaxy the Milkyway is seen in space as a haze in the sky
Local Group - some of the stars we see are actually galaxies these are the ones that are quite close to our own galaxy
Cluster - Galaxies cluster together as seen in astral lenses (which are bodies in space which bend light) and Hubble telescope
Super Cluster - these are the groups of clusters that demonstrate our mass in the light and dark matter of the universe.

The range of these are further and further away until we get to the limits of space.