Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

reason for Pakistan creation was on right basis. during and post partition incidents depicts that it was very right reason.

one can argue how they have lived 1000 years together in mainly hindu dominated India. reason cause hindus wernt ruling during this time but they had their infulence on power.
in the proposed new system democracy, muslims in india would have been out numbered!
differences and hate between the two faith groups are vast and contradicting. one eat other's God! come on if i were a hindu God forbids - I could have been offended as well. plus i guess Muslims pshychologically wouldnt accept hindu rulers in combined India where they have always been in Power since .

so it was better to have two separate states where two can live according to own believes without having to offend eachother.

In subcontinent, People give faith a very sacred and it is very part of their life and it also oftenly observed they believe in culture and follow it like relegion.

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

That’s a silly reason, regardless of what the other ethnic groups may feel…

Afghan=Pashtun

Pashtun=Afghan

Same meaning different words, the other ethnic groups are not Afghan they are just Afghani/Afghanistani nationals.

Afghanistan is named after its ethnic group; the Afghans (i.e. Pashtuns) not the other way round as it is with Pakis being named after their artificial manmade country.

If non-ethnic Afghans (non-Pashtuns) have a problem with the ethnic inhabitants of Afghanistan they can Eff-off back to Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Mongolia or Farsi Iran next door.

Who are Tajiks/Uzbeks or Hazaras to dictate what Pashtuns (ethnic Afghans) can and cannot do? Subhan’Allah there’s Punjabis to enslave poor Pashtuns in Pakistan and Chinky’s and Persians in their own fatherland.

I’m a well wisher of Pashtuns and want Pashtuns on both sides to unite, they’re going to have to if they want to progress and end their problems, because Punjabis and Mohajirs certainly won’t give a **** about them, if they want to prosper they’re going to have to help themselves because others will just give them empty promises in order to use them for their own ends.

Till Pashtuns become one the outsiders on both sides will keep using and abusing them in the name of religion and nationalism and then throwing them away like used condoms and trampling all over them whenever it’s convenient.

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Typical… Threaten Pakis with the Hindu “bogeyman” to justify Pakistan. :rolleyes:

Maybe you can fool a few kids in some village tree-school in Pakistan into believing the crap that you’re spewing through your butt holes but I’m not taking any of it.

Yes there are mindless Hindu fanatics but the same is true for Muslims (as we’ve recently seen all over the world).

Most Indian Hindus like Muslim just want to live and let live and are not out to massacre anyone. India is not as bad as you’re portraying it to be, Indian Muslims are more Islamic than any Paki I’ve ever come across and they love their country, this is evident from the pride and love even the Gujarati Muslim’s I’ve interacted with have for their country, even the Mullah’s and Mullahni’s are hardcore patriotic during cricket, they are really brotherly but don’t ever try India bashing in front of one of them they’ll whip you a hundred times with their beard.

Hindus and Muslims lived just fine side by side before Pakistan, they could have carried on that way just fine. From what we hear from our grandparents there was near enough perfect harmony, they had their differences and Hindus didn’t agree with many Islamic practices and Muslims didn’t agree with many Hindu practices but both sides respected the others right to follow his religion, nobody slung mud at the others faith and nobody tried imposing their view on the other.

The present-day Pakistan region was majority Muslim to begin with so I think it would have been largely unaffected by the little religious tensions anyway, if anything it was partition which acted as a buffer in Hindu-Muslim hate.

I’m not denying India has its handful of fanatic morons but Pakistan has a similar breed, it’s not like Pakistan is a haven for minorities such as the Christians, Mirzais and Hindus, these morons seem to forget that the Prophet of Mercy PBUH said something to the effect of “whoever hurts a protected-person (non-Muslim citizen) hurts me…” and their hatred isn’t limited to non-Muslims they even spew hatred against Islamic sects and further the rift for their own greedy ends instead of genuinely trying to guide each other…

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Chal Chabela, this PakiPatroit1 is a political naive. He judges only from one angle without taking into account the multitude of factors that determine the future events. Because, non-Pashtuns don't want Pashtuns of Pakistan to be part of Afghanistan, so, he concludes, Pakistan will stay forever. He cannot see the rule of history: the fast that cultural-ethnic communities have always outlived political entities and that countless kingdoms, empires, countries, and states have come into existence and then faced annihilation but nations (e.g. Pashtuns, Baluchis, Sindhis, Kashmiris, etc.) have survived. He either overlooks or cannot see the dis-harmony within Pakistan itself that may unfold in an 1971 like situation. And neither can he sense the changed international political and strategic scenario.

No more are we living in a world like the one that was till 1990s when the interests of some powers necessitated a particular kind of international system. It is being predicted that the number of the member states of UNO will raise to 300 in 21st Century.

Also I am not an ant-Punjabi because I've got nothing to do with them socially but it annoyes me when I see their hypocrisy. Take Pakipatriot1, Deedawar, and Iconoclast, for example.

Like other Punjabis, they consider themselves the ultimate icons of Pakistaniyath and the true symbols of all that is patriotic. Any person who doesn't subscribe to their "Punjabized vision of Pakistan" is dealt with harshly by them. They have kind of become grandpas of Pakistan.

Nevertheless, First I will tell them that Pakistan is just a state and not something divine. As long as it fulfils the needs of its citizens, there is a justification for it; otherwise it will suffer the same fate as other states and empires have in the past. This is the law of history.

Second, Punjabis are Pakistani patriots because they are presently the most privileged in Pakistan and not because they have made any great sacrifices for Pakistan or freedom from British Raj.

Punjab's contribution to freedom struggle against the British imperialism is virtually nill. They cannot point out a single Punjabi personality that has any significant share in the fight for freedom. On the contrary, they have been in the forefront of serving the British Raj so much so that the British Masters affectionately called them PMs (this means Punjabi Musalmans) and termed Punjab as the "Sword Arm of India".

Probably these guys don't know that the British were able to supress the 1857 mutiny of Dehli mainly due to the help from Punjabi Muslims. In that mutiny, while the Pashtun Bakht Khan Rohila was heroically leading the freedom forces, Punjabis were on the side of British to thwart the uprising.

Moreover, While Pashtuns were up in arms against British in NWFP and Tribal Areas throughout the second half of 19th Century and first half of 20th Century, Punjabis were fighting alongside British colonialist against our brave ancestors. While in World War I, Pashtuns deserted British Army because they didn't want to fight Muslim Turks, Punjabis even fired at "Khana Kaaba", the holiest Muslim place on earth.

In WW I, 2.4 millions Hindustanis fought for British and the bulk of them came from Punjab. (Ironically, British have made a lot of movies about the bravery of their own soldiers but there isn't available even a single documentary about the "sacrifices" of their Hindustanis mercenaries ).

Further, wherever, the local Hindustanis revolted against British, British were able to suppress them with the help of army and police mostly recruited from the Punjab.

Politically also, struggle of the Punjabis for freedom from British has been nill. Even on 14th August, 1947, Punjab was being ruled by pro-British Unionist coalitition of Punjabi Musalmans, Punjabi Hindu , and Punjabi Sikh elite. It was when their negotiations with Mohammad Ali Jannah concluded successfully and they were promised major share in power that they decalred accesion to Pakistan.

Then all these pro-colonialist Punjabi elite became the granpas of Pakistan overnight.

In fact Punjab cannot boost up of any prominant Punjab-based literary, military, or political movement/personality/struggle as for as freedom from British is concerned.

And now they are considering themselves super-Pakistanis and patriots!

In fact, they are the ultimate beneficiaries of the imperialist set-up of Pakistan. That is why they pretend to be zealot Pakistani.

Actually, the elite of Punjab are power-worshipers. They are willing to serve any power whether British, Chinese, Arabs, or American.

They are presently vehemently opposed to any association with India because they know that the present imperialist set-up best serves their interests. But if ever the present set-up changed with other provinces getting control over their resources and the power of the Punjab-heavy establishment was slashed or the regional trade boomed with a good share for Punjab's elite, Punjab will be the first to revive its Hindustani roots and throw Pakistani patriotism into a guttor.

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Its already happening with a twist of petrodollars to cushion the fall…though I will disagree with your generalization, to me it appears to be a domination of elite groups no matter which province they may belong.

General Ayub Khan was not of Punjabi descent (Hazara) just like many other pre-partition Muslim soldiers who served in the British army. Mir Jaffer was certainly not close to being a Punjabi, point is lets not generalize. Smaller provinces of Pakistan have genuine concerns and Punjab has on many occassions overstepped its constitutional rights, but then again fingers can be pointed towards Sindh for Bhutto’s, Frontier for the Taliban or Lal chaddars and Baluchistan for its continuous unrest at the behest of its unlawful sardars. This finger pointing is not going to solve anything.

LD, you have made some sound arguments backed by facts and histroical references, stay with that direction.

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Politically even muslims can not live with muslims..remember bangladesh..1971? Khalifart is the only answer :hehe:

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Apologise in advance for distracting your discussion here, but why in the world you had to fart here (read bolded sentence)? What did you mean by that? please elaborate :slight_smile: .

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

That is true! There were people among other nationalities who collaborated with British but collaboration as “mun haisul qawm” is not a part of their character. For example, Quli Khan, the father of present Aslam Khattak family of Karak (NWFP) and grandfather of Saifullahs of Laki Marwat (NWFP), both Muslim Leagures, is blamed to have poisoned Mullah Powinda, the Pashtun freedom fighter. Likewise, most of the big landlords of NWFP were allied (and also members of Muslim League) with British against local resistence but then among then among Pashtuns there have been powerful anti-colonial armed, political, and literary movements.

I think every nationality has a psyche and a national character. Pashtuns have a lot of vices but they have one virtue that they wouldn’t submit and defy and fight if insulted. Sindhis are a humble deeply tied to their culture and land and a non-voilent mystic resistence against injustice. Baluchis are a very noble people upright with strength and character. Muhajirs also have a strength. But Punjabis astound me. With so much energy and creative force in them, and so much brave, still they’ll follow.

Throughout history, especially, they have been people of the status-quo. They follow their elite and their elite follow the prevailing powers whether local or foreign. Take the Indo-Pak history since 1850 till 1947, you cannot tell me a single force defying the status-quo. Take the post-partition history i.e. 58 years of Pakistan’s existence. Not a single movement can be cited Punjab that was anti-status quo. One can mention Mian Iftikharudin and Mahmood Ali Kasuri but they were individuals. There is this political elite (Feudal as well as now urban ) that follows its establishment loyally. And the establishment has junior partners with elements drawn from the elite of other province. Punjabi masses follow their fuedal+urban political elite. The political elite follows the bureaucratic elite. The bureaucratic elite has foreign alliances.

In fact the whole province is a “province of status-quo” against any change in the present scheme of things (politico-economic order). May be this is due to their dominant position (remember Sunnis of Iraq). But then how can we expalin their social attitude before partition.

As for other provinces, I agree but my opinion is, that until the economic position and productive/creative capacities of a people are elevated to a certain threshhold level, there cannot be a genuine political change in them. The resources which could raise the capacities of Baluchis, for example, break the present economic order and so unleash forces social and political change (so the tribalism). In fact, the politico-administrative system in the center is deliberately sustaining an outmoded socio-economic system in the peripheries because that is in their interests. Rather they are also using subversive forces like Mullahs.

It is more convinient to control a tribal and fuedal society (through fuedals and sardars) than a modern urban society.

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Exactly! This is just like reducing the whole panorama of history to a partial view. When in history have Muslims lived together apart from the first 40 years when their society has not expanded territorially and demographically. Political fissures had started appearing immediately after the death of the prophet with families and clans vying for power.

One can also ask when did Baluchis and Punjabis live together harmonously and voluntarily. Is it not a fact that Bangalis could not live with the rest of pakistanis because there was little territorial and cultural commanlity, a problem which was exacerbated by the lack of a representative political system.

However, we can also not say that people with different cultures, belif system, and geography cannot live together. If there is a representative and just political giving the people the feeling that they are governing themselves rather than being governed colonially from the “core of the empire”, then religiously and culturally diverse people can live together.

This emphasis on religion in social and political unity is a self-serving view by the pre and post-partition Muslim elite.

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Why not study the history of British Indian Army, especially WW I and II.

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Oh Please Stop this all i did not mean this type of discusshon atall
I realy mean the real Meaning of freedom ( Love and peace) We are one Nation Sindhi Baloch Punjabi Or Pathans We have enough Dushmens in this word and do not need more try To Find the real duschmens and dont make your brothers your enemy .That is my meeage on our Independense day .Please be free Free from hatered and Political misshaps you are the hope of our nation and proove that you are growenup enough to take the leaderschip of entire muslim word and dont be Littel Bachas.

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

What a mess in here......people are venting without thinking.........

We are all Pakistanis.

We are better off being Pakistanis. Pakistan is our identity, our pride, our symbol and our safe heaven. No outsider will ever be on our side.........just remember.

Those who do not like this should go to Ahmedabad and learn for themselves...........I hope and pray.that they rather NOT!

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

If there was no partition then from a muslim perspective, i think there was no need to get rid of the British. After the British left, muslims would be living under a hindu-dominated government

In that case i would rather have the british rule over the sub-continent for a long time. I would rather live under the white man's british raj instead of a hindu-dominated sub-continent

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

whatever the reason was, it was a great decision.

trifurcation of the subcontinent's Muslim population pre-emptively eliminated any potential political muscle and the guaranteed hassles that would've come with it. It has allowed hindus/india to comprehensively dominate South Asia.

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Did you see any ill mannered word in my post.?? try to learn some ethics
take you theories roll it and shove up your @ss.

Pakistan is there to exist, you like it or not! move on and get a life you all!

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

Siraiki huh

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

:bukbuk: :bukbuk: :bukbuk: :bukbuk: :bukbuk: :bukbuk: What a Loser!!!
I have never heard a pakistani saying all this crap, are you even proud of your parents???
I mean don’t you wish your dad was Bill Gates rather than sharma, Verma or whatever your dad’s name is??? I am sure Bill has lot more to offer you and you wouldn’t be considered a backward person either, I wouldn’t say anything about your mother but i am sure you were never proud of her either and always wished if you had a more advanced mother???

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

I am not sure who you are…and not sure YOU know who you are!

Can we call you ‘anti-Pakistani’ or what about ‘a traitor’?

Anyway,when are you moving to Hindia…the progressive place in your opinion?

Re: Reason of Separate State Pakistan

another funny thread...funny anti-pakistani clowns