Being a South Indian by birth, I understand Hindi OK, but I don't follow Urdu well, with that caveat, after watching first 7-8 minutes I could see the shape of his central argument, that Islam is a way of life (Deen?) not a Mazar (belief?). Therefore, to have the way of life as prescribed you need a constitution (or at least a governemnt) that supports it and hence need a land for Indian muslims.
My argument is religion is a belief system. Therefore cannot guide your day to day life as cociety, language and environment evolves constantly. It is a prescription for "conflict of ideas" if you try to live your life by something that does not adopt to times. (Prairie grass can survive stroms better than a rigit tree).
This is the very reason Muslims needed their own country, you won't understand it then, you won't understand it now...
Dear Anwer Pasha thanks for sharing the gupta empire map but countries we call pakistan and bangladesh today were part of india before they were parititoned from india. However it will be more helpful if you could clarify your idea as to why do you think pakistan was created by mr jinnah who created it. How did iqbal play his role in creation of pakistan etc?
thanks and all the best.
For most part of the history India has not been one country, it has been several small kingdoms which kept on fighting with each other (there were very small periods when most areas of Modern India were united). The muslims firstly united a large part of India (for several centuries), and then the British took over from them. As far as creation of Pakistan is concerned, the Muslims of the subcontinent started feeling in the early 1900's that they will be treated as second class citizens of United India, therefore they started demanding their own land where they can live as they want to.
The North Western part of Pakistan was part of the Gandhara Civilization, and the Central and Southern Parts (were part of the indus valley civilization, most of the sites have been discovered in Pakistan). Anyways the areas constituting Pakistan have been ransacked over and over again throughout history, like Alexander, Bactrians, Macedonians, White Huns, Sakas, Parthians, Kushans, Arabs, Turks etc. So its not easy to say that all of this land was part of India, through out history the maximum period most of these areas were united was under muslims and then british. In the past the area was united for two centuries each in Maurya Empire and Gupta Empire.
BC
2,000,000 BC: In Riwat, dating at this period, stones implementations (tools) have been found at the site, proposing a possibility of earlier homo erectus existence[SUP][3][/SUP]
1,600,000 BC: A stone artefact is discovered in Riwat, dated to this period[SUP][4][/SUP]
500,000 BC: Some of the earliest relics of Stone Age man have been found in the Soan Valley of the Potohar region near Rawalpindi, dating back to 500,000 BCE
9000 BC - 5500 BC: Mehrgarh Period I
5500 BC - 4800 BC: Mehrgarh Period II
4800 BC - 3500 BC: Mehrgarh Period III
3500 BC - 2800 BC: Mehrgarh Periods IV to VI
2800 BC - 2000 BC: Mehrgarh Period VII
2800 BC - 2500 BC: Early Harappan / Kot Diji Phase
2500 BC - 1900 BC: Harappan Phase; Flourishment of Indus Valley Civilization at urban centres, Mohenjo-Daro & Harappa
1900 BC - 1300 BC: Late Harappan Phase (Cemetery H Culture)
1700 BC - 0600 BC: Start of the Aryan civilization in Sapta Sindhu, Punjab and of Indus culture, Rigvedic civilization
1500 BC: Earliest verses of Rig-Veda were written in the Indus Valley (Pakistan)
516 BC: Pakistan becomes easternmost part of Achaemenid Empire of Persia. Gandharais semi-independent kingdom
500 BC: Gandhara civilization (500 BC to 500 AD)[SUP][5][/SUP]
327 BC - 325 BC: Alexander of Macedonia invades Pakistan and captures Taxila
326 BC: Porus, the king of Punjab, fought the battle of the Hydaspes River against the Macedonian king Alexander.
325 BC: During the siege of the capital of the Mallians (modern Multan), Alexander was seriously wounded by an arrow in the chest.
This is the very reason Muslims needed their own country, you won't understand it then, you won't understand it now...
That's my opinion, but the leaders of India at that time were and even now are willing to let Muslims have they way of life. As far as I know with the exception of questionable Blasphamy law and absense of any law to prevent muslims from drinking, muslims in India enjoy all the rights to live their life as per their holy texts and have powers through Muslim Personal Law Board to set their own rules.
Having said that, in way I am content with Pakistan as a separate country. There was a time I use to think a unified country would have been a formidable forece, especailly in Criket. But, even then I never wanted a unified country. Because, muslims would have been decideing factor in the elections and there is no telling what would have been the outcome. So, I am under no illusion that we are destined to be together.
My argument was purely logical thinking. As you said I won't understand your thinking, because I pratice a something which is philosophical and spritual in nature, which allowed me to I look upon religion as a "healthy living guide" for mind and body not as a rule book which if don't follow I will be penalized.
It had (and still has) it's bad practices but it has evolved with time and many of them are falling on the way side. It's now entering a phase where the charity is being given more emphasis (it had done so in the long past), as also the spritual (meditation and healthy living) part.
*Unlike you I would not say you would not understand my thinking, because I explained my logic, so that you may be able to understand. You may choose not to agree, because you are told to agree is tantamount to breaking a law. *
Ghalti ho ga-e ainda nahi banain gay.
From Ibn-a-Insha’s Urdu key akhri kitaab.
Yeh kaunsi jagah hai?"
“Yeh Germany hai. YahaN German rehatay haiN”
“Aur yeh kaun sa mulk hai?”
“Yeh France hai. Yehan French rehtay hain.”
“Yeh kaun sa mulk hai?”
“Yeh Pakistan hai?”
“YahaN Kaun rehtaY haiN?”
“Bengali, Punjabi, Sindhi, …”
“Lekin Bengali aur Punjabi tau Hindustan maiN bhee rehtaY haiN tau Pakistan kyoN banaya?”:aq:
“Muaaf kijiye! Ghalati ho gayee. Aindah naheeN banaYeN geY:hoonh:”
I dont know why Pakistanis are still trying to convince each other even after 50 years of Pakistans creation. I dont think there are any Muslim Pakistanis who want to be part of India. Then why are Pakistanis trying to convince each other about creation of Pakistan???
I dont know why Pakistanis are still trying to convince each other even after 50 years of Pakistans creation. I dont think there are any Muslim Pakistanis who want to be part of India. Then why are Pakistanis trying to convince each other about creation of Pakistan???
There are people who want to make it ultra-liberal, there are people who want to make it ultra-religious and there are who people just want to live but the only ones who ask question about creation are the first two.
That's my opinion, but the leaders of India at that time were and even now are willing to let Muslims have they way of life. As far as I know with the exception of questionable Blasphamy law and absense of any law to prevent muslims from drinking, muslims in India enjoy all the rights to live their life as per their holy texts and have powers through Muslim Personal Law Board to set their own rules.
Having said that, in way I am content with Pakistan as a separate country. There was a time I use to think a unified country would have been a formidable forece, especailly in Criket. But, even then I never wanted a unified country. Because, muslims would have been decideing factor in the elections and there is no telling what would have been the outcome. So, I am under no illusion that we are destined to be together.
My argument was purely logical thinking. As you said I won't understand your thinking, because I pratice a something which is philosophical and spritual in nature, which allowed me to I look upon religion as a "healthy living guide" for mind and body not as a rule book which if don't follow I will be penalized.
It had (and still has) it's bad practices but it has evolved with time and many of them are falling on the way side. It's now entering a phase where the charity is being given more emphasis (it had done so in the long past), as also the spritual (meditation and healthy living) part.
*Unlike you I would not say you would not understand my thinking, because I explained my logic, so that you may be able to understand. You may choose not to agree, because you are told to agree is tantamount to breaking a law. *
Logical thinking without proper information/knowledge on certain issue can lead to wrong conclusion... first check what Islam is, then talk, otherwise, like i said, you won't understood it then, you won't get it now...
Logical thinking without proper information/knowledge on certain issue can lead to wrong conclusion... first check what Islam is, then talk, otherwise, like i said, you won't understood it then, you won't get it now...
Try explain. I can even accept Islam may be a better religion than any other religion. But the point is role of religion to govern day-to-day life in a nation-state world. Communism tried that it failed.
The same reason, I give to people who don't want 2nd amendment (US) to be repealed. Constituion is not Bible or Koran or Vedas. Here my argument with you is holy books can not be constiturtion. That's the basis of my arugument with the scholar in the TV show.
You can keepp throwing cliche like you don't know, you can't comprehend etc.,
Try explain. I can even accept Islam may be a better religion than any other religion. But the point is role of religion to govern day-to-day life in a nation-state world. Communism tried that it failed.
The same reason, I give to people who don't want 2nd amendment (US) to be repealed. Constituion is not Bible or Koran or Vedas. Here my argument with you is holy books can not be constiturtion. That's the basis of my arugument with the scholar in the TV show.
You can keepp throwing cliche like you don't know, you can't comprehend etc.,
Your basis can be true if you talking about Vedas or Bible, but is not true when it comes to Quran, which as per Muslims believe provide you with complete way of life... i am sure it is difficult for you to comprehend that how a religion can do that, but this is what Islam does...
Now you have two choices here, either get into a constructive discussion to find out how Islam effect day-to-day dealing or you can carryon with your "Logical" conclusions, for which i have already told you the logical conclusion of anything depends on the amount of knowledge/information you have got on the subject, by ur posts/comments it looks like you either have limited or no knowledge/information on Islam and its way of Life...
would like to quote from Iqbal (RA) Mullah ko jo hai Hind main sajdey ki ijazat ***
Thank you dear KatDaddy for sharing your thoughts on the videos. In short he is taking islam as a deen=rule of law not a religion as is usually taken by muslim masses.
DEEN v Religion
http://www.aboutquran.com/Islam.htm
Thanks for your clarification on the word “Deen” as rule of law. That’s more than “way of life” which are generally guidelines. Then more questions come to mind.
Can the “rule of law” be same for centuries? Don’t we evolve and allowed to change it? In fact many of us do change it to suit the times while keeping the sprit of the law and there comes the struggle as others interpret to the letter.
Ghalati ho gayee.
Aindah naheeN banaYeN geY:hoonh:”