Read it and learn. An interesting conversation

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

INTERESTING CONVERSATION

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.

He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and…

Professor: You are a Muslim, aren’t you, son?

Student : Yes, sir.

Prof: So you believe in God?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?

Student : Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

Student : Yes.

Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him.
Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn’t.
How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can’t answer, can you? Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?

Student :Yes.

Prof: Is Satan good?

Student : No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?

Student : From…God…

Prof: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?
All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

Student :Yes, sir.

Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the
world around you. Tell me, son…Have you ever seen God?

Student: No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

Student : No , sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says
your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Prof: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof: Yes.

Student : No sir. There isn’t.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat,
white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold.
We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go
any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we
use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.
Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something.
You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light…But if you
have no light constantly, you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it?
In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were you would be able to make darkness
darker, wouldn’t you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality.
You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite,
something we can measure.
Sir, science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism,
but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as
the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a
substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.
Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a
monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the
argument is going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it,
touched or smelt it?..No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable
protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face
unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH.
That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

2

Re: Read it and learn. An interesting conversation

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Attia: *
INTERESTING CONVERSATION

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.

He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and.....

Professor: You are a Muslim, aren't you, son?

Student : Yes, sir.

Prof: So you believe in God?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?

Student : Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

Student : Yes.

Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him.
Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't.
How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?

Student :Yes.

Prof: Is Satan good?

Student : No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?

Student : From...God...

Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?
All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?

Student :Yes, sir.

Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the
world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?

Student: No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

Student : No , sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says
your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Prof: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof: Yes.

Student : No sir. There isn't.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat,
white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold.
We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go
any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we
use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.
Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something.
You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you
have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it?
In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness
darker, wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality.
You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite,
something we can measure.
Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism,
but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as
the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a
substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.
Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a
monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the
argument is going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it,
touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable
protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face
unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH.
That is all that keeps things moving & alive.
[/QUOTE]

For countless ages the hot nebula whirled aimlessly through space. At length it began to take shape, the central mass threw off planets, the planets cooled, boiling seas and burning mountains heaved and tossed, from black masses of cloud hot sheets of rain deluged the barely solid crust. And now the first germ of life grew in the depths of the ocean, and developed rapidly in the fructifying warmth into vast forest trees, huge ferns springing from the damp mould, sea monsters breeding, fighting, devouring, and passing away. And from the monsters, as the play unfolded itself, Man was born, with the power of thought, the knowledge of good and evil, and the cruel thirst for worship. And Man saw that all is passing in this mad, monstrous world, that all is struggling to snatch, at any cost, a few brief moments of life before Death's inexorable decree. And Man said: `There is a hidden purpose, could we but fathom it, and the purpose is good; for we must reverence something, and in the visible world there is nothing worthy of reverence.' And Man stood aside from the struggle, resolving that God intended harmony to come out of chaos by human efforts. And when he followed the instincts which God had transmitted to him from his ancestry of beasts of prey, he called it Sin, and asked God to forgive him. But he doubted whether he could be justly forgiven, until he invented a divine Plan by which God's wrath was to have been appeased. And seeing the present was bad, he made it yet worse, that thereby the future might be better. And he gave God thanks for the strength that enabled him to forgo even the joys that were possible. And God smiled; and when he saw that Man had become perfect in renunciation and worship, he sent another sun through the sky, which crashed into Man's sun; and all returned again to nebula

3

attia, this thing was new 15 years ago.

sher, you seem to be knowledgable abt evolution et al. please answer my query in the science forum.

4

Was Adam An Alien Half-Breed?

Everybody knows the Bible story about the origin of the human race. The Hebrew god Jehova, also called Elohim, created a man named Adam and a woman named Eve and placed them in a garden called Eden. This is an ancient story shared by both the Jewish and Christian religions. It appears in Genesis, the first book of the Old Testament.

I suspect this story is a twisted version of what really happened. Because of personal contact with aliens in parallel but multi-dimensional universes, I know that we three-dimensional humans are not alone. We never have been alone. We are surrounded by intelligent life that sometimes enters our dimension and frequently manages to influence our way of life.

While I cannot prove it, I suspect that one or more alien cultures came to Earth in the distant past and used some form of genetic engineering to alter the brains of existing animals, giving them what we know today as human consciousness. This would explain the sudden rise of great civilizations. It also would answer the riddle behind the construction of complex cities and stone monuments by a people that just crawled out of a cave-life existence.

How would humans have the sudden ability to hunt, farm, build monuments, and worship a god unless they were (a.) suddenly created (i.e. genetic manipulation) and also (b.) given personal instruction by another intelligent life form. Our apparent need to constantly worship something, whether it is a rock or an invisible deity in the sky, might stem from this kind of mental conditioning.

I recently had my nose buried in an unusual book, "The Pleiadian Agenda" by Barbara Hand Clow, in which the author claims to be a human vehicle for various alien communicators. The aliens (in her) say they are using this book in an attempt to push certain buttons and awaken readers into an understanding of just who we are.

Clow's work speaks mostly on behalf of the Pleiadians, a race of aliens interested in helping humans rise above our situation. The author claims that we also share this planet with mainly two other alien races, the Reptilians and the Anunnaki. It is the Anunnaki who appear to be the villains in this story. These people, who reportedly come to Earth from the planet Niberu every 3,600 years, appear to be the creators of some of us. But according to the Pleiadians, their motive was never divine. They made humans to work as their slaves. They created our complex religious belief systems to make sure we always remain trapped in their elaborate program of social control.

The Pleiadians claim that the planet Niberu is part of our solar system, but it has such a wide arch that it only comes into view every 3,600 years. At that time Niberu gets close enough to Earth to allow the Anunnaki to physically travel here. Their last visit was at the time of Jesus. Niberu was the star referred to in the Christmas story. The visit prior to that was made at the time the Sumarian Empire rose to power.

Just how the Anunnaki manage to exist on a world that swings so far out of the galaxy it cannot benefit from the heat of the sun, is not explained.

Indeed, this is a wild story. But because I am always willing to consider new ideas and theories, I filed it away in my head for possible future reference.

While studying an ancient translation of The Epic of Gilgamesh, a type of creation story found in clay tablets among Sumerian ruins dating back to third millenium BC, I was surprised to find a reference to the Anunnaki:

"When the Anunnaki, the judges, come together, and Mammetun, the mother of destinies, together they decree the fates of men. Life and death they allot but the day of death they do not disclose," one text reads.

The epic also speaks of Anu, "lord of the firmament," an image of God the creator of man.

Indeed, the Sumarians believed that the Anunnaki were gods of a dark underworld where the dead go. Anu was a father of gods, "the great above."

The strange Book of Enoch, an ancient text discovered in Ethiopia in 1773 (and because of references to it in ancient Hebrew writings considered to be among the oldest manuscripts in existence) talks about 200 angels who came down to earth to mate with the women. Led by a high angel named Azazyel, the angels produced giant men who ate so much they soon consumed all of the food. After that they fed on the animals and even the flesh of humans.

During this strange occupation, Enoch writes that humans were taught to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, mirrors, jewelry, paints and dyes, make cosmetics, and use valuable stones. The people also learned sorcery, use of roots and plants for medicine, astronomy, astrology and other "signs," and the importance of the "motion of the moon."

In November I had the privilege of listening to Fr. Charles Moore, a Roman Catholic Priest, speak on the Coast to Coast radio talk show. Moore, an obvious maverick among the Catholics, also talked about the Anunnaki and his belief in their control over the human race.

It is Moore's opinion that the Anunnaki come to Earth to mine gold. He said gold is an element that cannot be found on Niberu. The Anunnaki use a form of alchemy to refine gold into a liquid that they consume. When done correctly, Moore claims the metal makes the consumer young and healthy, gives them great mental powers, and assures eternal life in this body and in this dimension. The formula that works for the Anunnaki also would work for humans, he said.

Moore believes the Anunnaki created us to mine gold for them. Indeed, gold is regarded by humans to be a most precious and admired metal. It is worn freely as decorative jewelry. Gold also has been used to make coins of value.

Since hearing that broadcast, I have stumbled upon the writings of yet another Anunnaki believer: Zecharia Sitchin.

Sitchin, an expert in ancient Semitic and Hebrew languages, has stirred much controversy with his books, writings and lectures. His Earth Chronicles series offers the premise that mythology is the repository of ancient memory, the Bible is a historic and scientific document, and ancient civilizations were the product of knowledge given to the people by the Anunnaki.

In a lecture at New York University in 1993, Sitchin outlined his theory about human origins and our link with the Anunnaki. Following are excerpts from his talk:

"There is one more planet in our own solar system, not light years away, that comes between Mars and Jupiter every 3,600 years. People from that planet came to Earth almost half a million years ago and did many of the things about which we read in the Bible, in the book of Genesis.

"I prophesize the return of this planet called Nibiru at this time. The planet is inhabited by intelligent human beings like us who will come and go between their planet and our planet. They created Homo sapiens. We look like them. I call them the Annunaki," Sitchen said.

He said he became interested in the Sixth Chapter of Genesis, that talks about the Nefilim, or giants, identified as "the sons of the gods who married the daughters of man in the days before the great flood." In his research, Sitchen said he learned that Nefilim literally means "those who have come down to earth from the heavens.

"All the ancient scriptures, the Bible, the Greek myths, the Egyptian myth and texts, the pyramid texts, everything, led to the Sumerians, whose civilization was the first known one six thousand years ago. I focused on Sumer, the source of these legends and myths and texts and information. I learned to read the cuneiform Sumerian texts and came upon their persistent and repeated statements that those beings, whom the Sumerians called Anunnaki, came to earth from a planet called Nibiru. The planet was designated by the sign of the cross and Nibiru meant, planet of crossing."

Sitchen said scholars who were following this same course of study were debating among themselves whether Nibiru was Mars or Jupiter. He said he began an extensive study of astrological charts and realized that Nibiru couldn't be either of these planets. He finally came to the conclusion that it was a wandering planet that crossed through our solar system.

"Once I realized that this was the answer, that there is one more planet, everything else fell into place. The meaning of the Mesopotamian Epic of Creation on which the first chapters of Genesis are based and all details about the Anunnaki, who they were and who their leaders were and how they traveled from their planet to Earth and how they splashed down in the Persian Gulf and about their first settlement, their leaders and so on and so on, everything became clear! The Sumerians had immense knowledge.

"They knew about Uranus and Neptune and described them and they knew about Pluto. They were proficient in mathematics and, in many respects, their knowledge surpassed modern times. They said 'All we know was told to us by the Anunnaki.'"

5

continue......

Sitchen said: "The existence of Nibiru is not a matter of just one more globe in our solar system. This is different, because if Nibiru exists, and the Anunnaki exist, then the Sumerian claim that they come back to our vicinity every 3,600 years, at which times in the past they gave us civilization, then we are not alone and there are more advanced people than us in our solar system."

In one of his books, "The Twelfth Planet," Sitchen quotes a Sumerian text that he says explains how Adam, the first Homo sapien, was created. He said the process was the same as what today is called a "test tube baby process.

"The knowledge that we have acquired corroborates what the Sumerians knew six thousand years ago. You wonder how is it possible, how could they know? How, as another example, could their symbol of the entwined serpents, that we still use today to denote medicine and healing and biology, be 6,000 years ago, the symbol of Enki, who engaged in genetic engineering to bring about the Adam? That was a symbol of the DNA, the double helix of DNA," Sitchen said.

"We look like them. They made us through genetic engineering. They jumped the gun on evolution, and made us to look like them physically, and to be like them emotionally. That is what the Bible says: Let us make the Adam in our likeness and after our image. Physically, outwardly and inwardly. So much of what they are, we are."

Sitchen even goes one step farther. He also theorizes that the Anunnaki not only created us through genetic engineering, they "mixed their genes with those of Ape-woman."

6

Okay I didnt get what your talking about? please tell me the title of your essay? lolz well iam confused here! HELP.

7

Sher, unless you wrote all that stuff yourself, its customary to provide the name of the author, or atleast the weblink where you got the article.

Attia, I found this article really interesting when I first read it about 2 years ago. Thanks all the same.

8

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Sher, unless you wrote all that stuff yourself, its customary to provide the name of the author, or atleast the weblink where you got the article.

Attia, I found this article really interesting when I first read it about 2 years ago. Thanks all the same.
[/QUOTE]

Faisal, It was written by me,,, BUT it is thw veiws of some scholars I have read and liked very much. I beleive in litsening to other's veiws with open mind AND that is b'cos I don't beleive in religions, I mean any religion. I respect people who beleive in religions as People NOT as beleivers.

9

what

Sher what do you mean that you dont believe in any religion so it means that you are not muslim????

10

Re: what

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Attia: *
Sher what do you mean that you dont believe in any religion so it means that you are not muslim????
[/QUOTE]

Attia,,, Do I have to be Muslim??? OK,,, My parents are from Lahore, Pakistan and are Muslim. But that does not make me religious. Again that is not the point, the point is what is needed to improve human understanding of the Nature as whole so that we can benefit from the Nature while alive.

11

Sher you didnt answer her question.

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
Sher you didnt answer her question.
[/QUOTE]

MiniMe,, what do you mean I haven't answered her question. That was a rhetorical question... Should I say, ok,,,, I dont beleive in any religion at all. Like I said before I was born in Mulim family. But my reason tells me that I am better off without any God. Now, again, that has nothing to do with my being born and raised in UK( a non-muslim country)

13

Sher it does have to do with you being born and raised in UK. Well you are completely lost… I think you should go and find out some stuff about Islam and read Quran… because I don’t think you know anything about Islam. And if you don't know something please don't talk about it..

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Arsr: *
Sher it does have to do with you being born and raised in UK. Well you are completely lost… I think you should go and find out some stuff about Islam and read Quran… because I don’t think you know anything about Islam. And if you don't know something please don't talk about it..
[/QUOTE]

What exactly is it that I don't know and you know more???
Didn't God himself say that we should use our reason. When you use your reason you do find incosistancies in all known religions.
Of course you don't wanna beleive in contradictory statements which people, so passionatly like to put out.

15

Tell me what do you know that I don't know about religion? You don't anything about religion because you don't believe in God or anything... so if you don’t know then don't talk about it.... I respect what you think but I have to tell you my opinion too... well now what you’re thinking is ridiculous…

16

So.. Mr. James Donahue, I am sure you looked into your article thoroughly enough to take this discussion into some direction and to stand for your belief, right?

17

Interesting. Thanks for posting the link Tanhayaan. I think to post someone else’s article and then lie about it, is lame, from purely an integrity standpoint. Anyway, to each his own.