RE: Degas

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

**::: Degas Says: *“Zalim, I out of curiosity read biography of Mirza Ghulam witten by no other tahn Maulana Zafar Ali Khan… since he was the most learned Qadiani… I agree that Mirza Ghulam did remarable contributions for Islam for pointing out some biddats muslims had fallen in sub-continent…

but his views after that were really unislamic… his claim to be prophet and his revelations… his claim to be greater than Hazrat Eesa… are some of the things that to me are totally against what Islam is about. *** [ul] Degas, His claims are not against Islam. It’s the matter of interpretation, may be its unislamic to you because of the environment you were bought up, for other it may be opposite.

Moreover do you think coming of a Prophet is a curse for a nation? No degas it’s a blessing, but only for those who seek divine benedictions. Allah don’t leave those who are dear to Him just like that and let them suffer the torments of the evil and corrupted society.

Indeed Quran is the sole guidance for the past, present and also for the generations to come, no one can change, amend or revoke its perfect message.

Let me put it this way, during the span of aprox. 5000 years, Allah sent numerous messengers to the mankind. Its is narrated that some 1,24000 messengers were sent. So the question is, Did they all delivered an independent code of life and invalidated the previous ones? Well NO.

After Mosses(as) the Hebrew nation was blessed with succession of Prophets, (that’s why they call themselves as ‘the chosen people’ ). You think they all bought a new code? NO, they all were send to revive the same message which Mosses(as) presented earlier. None bought a new book, or did amendment in the original laws. Thus all were in fact subordinate Prophets of Moosa(as).

In this regard, your concept that a Prophet is one who brings a NEW LAW and ABROGATES the old one is absolutely erroneous. Like wise according to the same Book, (as I quoted some examples earlier 40:16,7:35), Prophets can come, but within the fold of Mohammad(saw) not within the fold of Mosses(as).

Quran nowhere claims that NO NEW Prophet can come nor it claims that an OLD HEBREW will come. Can you quote any relevant verse, even one with metaphorical meaning?

The purpose of the coming of Imam Mahdi is the same, i.e to remove the dust from Islam, which has been encrusted with the passage of time. 1400 years has passed, only a blind cant see what Islam is going through, sheered apart into so many sects, each claiming they are right, on the other hand all sort of evils are flourishing in this society. Allah says there is not a single nation to whom a Warner has not been sent. What do think Allah can leave his actual chosen people like that, indeed there is a need of a reformer, - a subordinate of Mohammad Mustafa(saw).

What do you think if the Imam Mehdi will claim himself as a prophet? Will He abrogate the Quran, make new verses. No, his purpose will be to revive the actual teachings of Islam. And that what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) did, and we as Ahmadis have only two purposes, i.e. to remove the misconception and biddahfull evil practices which has corrupted this society, and on the other hand to gather all the mankind under one roof of Mohammad(sa). If for doing this we are tagged as Kafirs, then we are happy to accept that title.

::: And regarding the issue that Mohammad as the Last messenger, dear, on the canvas of religions there exist no significance for being the last messenger. Since the Quran is a spiritual Book from a spiritual Being, it only carries a spiritual Messages. Right? The word Khatam-un-Nabeeen as translated by the general muslim doctrine, carry no spiritual significance. (or does it?)

Read the discussion on Finality of Prophethood (Khatmay-Nabuwat)by Watcher (his reply to the argument i presented is still pending)

::: Regarding Jesus ascension and coming back, The scenario is that Quran is silent on the issue of Jesus descent while Ahadith are empty on his ascension. The irony is that Muslims has picked up one word from Quran (i.e. RAFA) and one word from Ahadith (i.e. NAZOOL) and tailored a fairy-tale that Jesus ascended up to heavens and will descend in later days.

However, if you browse any Arabic lexicon you will be astonished to find that the opposite of RAFA is at’TAWADO, and the opposite of NAZOOL is as’SAOOD. The word RAFA and NAZOOL are in no way opposite to each other, even metaphorically.

Don’t you think there might be some sort of hypocrisy? Like the Christian-Popes rule the Churches and deny truth despite of the logical proofs, so are the Muslim-Ulemas rule the Mosques and disregard the facts.

That’s all for now.
[/ul]

[li] PS1:* Those who just want to curse and pass fatwas, please feel free to open up another thread.[/li]
[li] PS2: Dear Moderator, let this be a discussion, for those who want to discuss.*[/li]

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited March 08, 2001).]

2

Jesus in Islam:

Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow you superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall you all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein you dispute.” (Holy Quran, Al-Imran, 3:55)

And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow you Me: this is a Straight Way.
(Holy Quran, Az-Zukhuruf, 43:61)

Mirza Sahib was born, Jesus will NOT be born, he is alive up in the heavens.

You people prove your selves with conjectures and guesses, infact there were NO valid points in Mirza Ahmadis Prophethood.

The Prophecies he made never came true, even those that he said with his own mouth that these prophecies will come true, they never did. Do you think God would put this big lie on his prophet and humiliate him in front of his people?

I don’t think so.

About he being Imaam Mehdi:

Imaam Mehdi will be from Prophets family, was Mirza Sahib from Prophets family? No, he was not.
Imam Mehdi will rule upon Arabs, did Mirza Ahmad did that? No.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

You are fooling no one but your arrogant selves.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

3

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
You are fooling no one but your arrogant selves.
[/quote]

Be careful with the words you choose. Next time the thread will not be locked, but you may be restricted from participation.

4

Watcher first of all, it's a reply to Degas.

Secondly, uptill now I am unable to comprehend your motives; lets make it clear over here,
1) do you want to discuss the issues you often raise?
2) or you just want to make fun around?

for the former, if you are interested to talk in a decent way, you are most welcome, otherwise don’t loose your prestige and time for the sake of worthless Ahmadis.

for the later all I can say that such lame allegations, mud slinging, verbal abuses, nothing is new and nothing can harm this jamaát, do you think you can blow out this heavenly lamp with your mouths? You can never do so.

So you better take it easy this time, Sir !

::: Short answers to your queries :::

  • Re: Imam Mehdi. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad belongs to the house of Mohammad (sallalla hu alayhe wa salam).

  • Re: Prophecies. As I said prophecies are meant for believers, though you disagree with this theory without any logical contribution. Anyhow, the question is if I prove to you that all of his prophecies came true as predicted (not as your web-sites impose), what will you do? Accept him? Still reject him? or squarely continue to follow the same agenda to kill your time? There must be some reason behind any constructive work.

  • Re: British Agent: Sir, if this jamaát is implanted by some humans in conspiracy against Islam, it would have been eradicated soon after it is found, you wouldn’t have this chance talking to an Ahmadi so closely. Remember, this is a tress implanted by the hands of Allah himself, and angles guard it. You are not the only one trying to spill fatwas against us, just look at those authorities who crafted such deadly lawas against us, where are those people today? how they died? were they able to harm this Jama’at, even a speck?

  • Re: False Prophet: from Muslima Kazaab to David Koraish, turn the pages of history and you will see what happen to them, how long they survived after their claim, and how many followers they do still possess. but watcher, those appointed by Allah are always victorious even with no companions to support them. Mohammad Mustafa (sallalla hu alayhe wa salam) when claimed that he is a Prophet appointed by Allah, very few accepted him, the whole of the Arabis turned against, but only those who have fear God and seek the right path accepted him. (so is the story of all the prophets).

Remember for a Kazib(liar), his kazab(lie) is sufficient to kill him.
(that’s the teaching of Quran. If you have an ounce of faith in this book you wouldn’t have thought like those illiterate websites).

PS: ”Imam Mehdi will rule upon Arabs”. hummm that new to me.

5

hahaha, yes you believe in them and you are a believer, right. IF YOU BELIEVE IN HIS PROPHECIES< THAT WOULD MAKE YOU AN AHMADI. So you are right, it is only for people who believe in HIS false prophecies.

This one is very clear(lets discuss):

“Enemies wish for my death and prophecise about it. God has, however, given me the good news that I shall live for eighty (80) years or more.”

(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 239)

Ok, he died at the age of 70 or 72. Why didn’t that prophecy come true? *

Second one:

“I will die either in Mekkah or Medina.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 2, P. 105; Tadhkira, P. 591)

He died in Lahore, didn’t he? [Want the scanned image?]

How does Mirza Ghulam Ahmad belong to house of MOhammad?
The hadith books suggest that Jesus will PRAY BEHIND Imaam Mehdi, how can your prophet be both of them at the same time? Are you saying that hadiths are wrong? If so, prove to us authencity of your prophet. Instead of answering me with twisting logic, answer prove to us with facts…

Do you reject the hadith I posted?

British Agent: Read this from his book and visit the links for actual pages from those books:

“I come from a family which is out and out loyal to this government. My father, Mir Ghulam Murtaza, who was considered its well-wisher, used to be granted a chair in the Governor’s Darbar (cabinet) and has been mentioned by Mr. Griffin in his ‘History of the Princes of Punjab’. In 1857, he helped the British government beyond his means, that is he procured fifty (50) cavaliers and horses right during the time of the mutiny. He was considered by the government to be its loyal supporter and well-wisher. A number of testimonials of appreciation received by him from the officers have unfortunately been lost. Copies of three of them, however, which had been published a long time ago, are reproduced in the margin (in English). Then, after the death of my grandfather, my elder brother Mirza Ghulam Qadir remained occupied with service to the government and when the evil-doers encountered the forces of the British government on the highway of Tanmmun, he participated in the battle on the side of the British Government (under General Nicholson he killed several freedom fighters). At the time of the death of my father and brother, I was sitting in the sidelines; but, since then, I have been helping the British for seventeen years with my pen.”
http://www.irshad.org/idara/images/mzbooks/rk13e004.gif http://www.irshad.org/idara/images/mzbooks/rk13e005.gif http://www.irshad.org/idara/images/mzbooks/rk13e006.gif http://www.irshad.org/idara/images/mzbooks/rk13e007.gif
(Kitab-ul-Barriah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 13, P. 4, 5, 6, 7;
Shahadat-ul-Quran, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 6, P. 385-387;
Ishtihar Wajib al-Izhar, Sept. 20, 1897, P. 3-7; appended with Kitab-ul-Barriah)

“The benevolent Government is aware of the fact that we are from among their servants, their sympathizers and well wishers. We have come to their aid with a firm mind in every hour of need. My father was held in close and high esteem by the Government; and our services to this Government held clear distinction. I do not think that the Government has forgotten these services of ours. My father, Mirza Ghulam Murtaza, son of Mirza Ata Muhammad Al-Qadian, was a great well wisher and friend of this government and enjoyed great respect from among them. Our loyalty has been proven beyond doubt. Rather our fidelity was proven among the people and became clear to the government officials. The Government may confirm this from the officers who came to this side and lived among us; so that they may tell what sort of life we lived, and how faithful we have been in serving their Government.”
(Noor-ul-Haq, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 8, P. 36-37; Noor-ul-Haq, Vol. 1, P. 27-28)

Actual images of pages 36 and 37 on these links: http://www.irshad.org/idara/images/mzbooks/rk08n036.gif http://www.irshad.org/idara/images/mzbooks/rk08n037.gif

“My father was a well-known landlord in this country and he enjoyed great eminence in the Government’s offices. He was a true devotee and well wisher of the British Government. In the mutiny of 1857 (the Muslim independence movement against colonialism is called ‘mutiny’ by Mirza), my father supplied fifty horses and riders to aid the British Government. For this favor to the Government, he was very popular among the officials.”
(Izala-e-Auham, P. 58, footnote)

You may say this is copy and paste and nothing more from my holy sites, but why don’t you look it up in your books and tell us the truth. [knowing that most people do not know and do not have the books mentioned, you can easily say those references are wrong…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

]

False prophet: When they pay you money to convert from Islam to Qadianism, you would. You people even change your religion in order to get a visa to Canada or UK or germany.

“The majority of people who have joined my sect are those who are either holding eminent posts with the British Court, or the goodly rich men, their servants and friends or businessmen, lawyers or those educated in the modern way or such famous scholars, servants and noblemen who have either served the British Government in the past or are serving it at present or their relations or friends who accepted the influence of their elders and the weekly holders of the office of the caretakers of some religious orders. In short, this is a party which is the protege of the British Government from whom it has earned good name and who is worthy of the Government’s favors. Or it consists of people who are related to me or are among my servants.”
(Tabligh-e-Risalat, Vol. 7, P. 18)

“I have filled shelves with books which I wrote in praise of the British, especially about the abrogation of Jihad in which many Muslims believe. This is a big service to the Government. So I hope for an appropriate and good reward.”
(Tabligh-e-Risalat, Vol. 7, P. 19)

He mocked Islam for MONEY and well wishes from his British Masters. You can reject those references all you want, they are from your books other wise those pages and references wouldn’t be there - those holy sites would not make a fool out of themselves by posting false references, would you?

Again, do you reject the hadiths I posted about Imaam Mehdi, that will tell allot about you being on Islam.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Admin - I apologize, but ‘sir’ next time when same kind of remark is pointed towards, me make SURE YOU do or say something. Don’t just warn me, warn those who have and will make same kind of remarks towards me. We don’t have anything against me, do we? [Biggies…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

]

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
*Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

6

Dear watcher,

Though this might be a part of your teachings that not to reply to non-sunnis politely, but I will try to give you all your answers one by one in a ethically acceptable way because I am proud of myself to be a true followers of Mohammad Mustafa sallalahu alaye hay wa salam.

As I said on the other threads, the hand-picked references you are quoting (repeatedly) doesn’t exist in any of those books, they are as good as hindu sites representing Islam. Or non-Muslim sites quoting from Quran. Its nothing than simply licking the old spits. If you have taqwa, go to the nearest Ahmadi Mosque and look for yourself. (nothing is more authentic than the firsthand info)

***Watcher’s comment on a prophecy: “Any Qadiani will tell you that Mirza Sahib died when he was 70 or 72. 1835-1905/6. So, this prophecy never came true, he lied.“ ***

Watcher, make up your mind first before you come here and present yourself in front of the world. I think you are old enough to count the digits. 1835-1905/6 makes a range of 70-71 years, not 70-72, Secondly, if you are not definite about the actual dates, you may ask anyone instead of assigning figures by yourself thereby proving yourself a LIAR. His actual life span ranges from 1835-1908](http://www.ahmadiyya.com/intro.htm).

Yes watcher there is a Sun outside, but your lousy web-sites are blocking its light to enter the taqwa-less souls.

Lastly, as NYA pointed out, why not do a reality check on you, after all you are true we are false, liars, heretics wagara wagaira.. so buckle up Sir.

Pull out the verses from QURAN which says;

1) Jesus WENT UP and will COME DOWN. (please be specific and reply with references)
2) No Prophets can COME after Mohammad. (also please refer one single verse which supports your theory of khatam-un nabyeen)
3) Imam Mehdi WILL COME as an ORDINAY MAN. (while Quran says all the prophets were Imam Mehdis of their time, wanna see the reference?)

    • PS 1: If you want to open up separate threads on each, please feel free.

    • PS 2: We know you are here for civilized DISCUSSIONS, (proves this also)

    • PS 3: If Jihad (killing non-muslims) is a must for Muslims then, please go to Afghanistan, Palestine, Bosnia, Kashmir, go free the suffering Muslims (they are not Ahmadi captives), Declare a Holy Jihaad and earn some sawab-miles, why wasting time on gupghup, and why feeding yourself with British/American incomes.

(I know you don’t hate britishers/americans, its only Ahmadis (British Agents)](Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos) who are meant to be hated by your creed. Nor your love for Allah and His Messenger(sa) parallels with the hatred you possess for Ahmadis - a clear sign of mockery indeed.)*

Surprisingly yours,

Zalim

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited March 13, 2001).]

7

So, Zalim according to dates you have provided(1835-1908), Mirza Sahibs prophecy still didn’t come true, correct? He was 73, when he died. What is your point? What is the point if he was 73 or 72 or 78? He lied in HIS OWN PROPHECY about HIS OWN AGE.

Other non-sense you mentioned about reality check and crapy text like that, I will just ignore. Those words are for you to satisfy your self and your false claims. The post will be lone anyway, so if you can read all of this, I think it will same as if I have replied to those also…

I repeatedly ask you this question:

Do you deny the hadith of Mohammad(saw) that are found in the authentic hadith books?

What do you say about this verse from QURAN which was revealed on MOhammad(pbuh) son of Abdullah:

O people! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Apostle of God and the last in the line of Prophets. And God is Aware of everything.

Islam was completed when Mohammad(pbuh) was still alive:

This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

(The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)

Here are some hadiths from authentic sources of Islam:

My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets.

(Bukhari, Muslim,Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Tirmizi, Babu Khatimin-Nabiyyin, Musnad Abu Dawud Tayalisi)

Here is another one:

You (Hazrat Ali) are related to me as Aaron was related to Moses (pbuh). But no Apostle will come after me.
(Bukhari, Muslim
Musnad recorded a similar hadith ending in ‘Behold there is no prophethood after me.’)

If ever there arose a person from among my people who would hold communion with God, it would be none else but 'Umar bin Khattab.
(Bukhari , Muslim, Tirmidhi)

The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me.
(Bukhari)

*There are numerous hadiths on the same subject. I have listed some…want more? *

Had We sent this as a Qur’an (in a language) other than Arabic they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?” Say: "It is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not there is a deafness in their ears and it is blindness in their (eyes); they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!
(The Holy Quran, Ha-Mim 41:44)
(12:2, 13:37, 16:103, 20:113, 26:195, 39:028, 41:003, 42:7, 43:3, and 46:12 also illuminate the point that proper knowledge of arabic language is required to avoid mistranslating/misinterpreting the Holy Quran.)

About Jesus:

Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow you superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall you all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein you dispute.” (Holy Quran, Al-Imran, 3:55)

And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow you Me: this is a Straight Way.
(Holy Quran, Az-Zukhuruf, 43:61)

Those verses suggest that he was raised UP to heavens. *

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Here read this:

By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, Son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizyah (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no one will accept charitable gifts.

(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 3, Book 34, No. 425)

Narrated Abu Huraira(RA) that hazrat Muhammad(SAW) said:
The Hour will not be established until the Son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizyah tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).

(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 3, Book 43, No. 656)

By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the Son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizyah (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): – “And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.” (Quran 4:159)

(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 55, No. 657; Fateh-ul Bari, Vol. 7, P. 302)

How will you be when the Son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the law of the Quran and not by the law of Gospel.
(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 55, No. 658; Fateh-ul Bari, Vol. 7, P. 304-305)

Law of Quran does not prohibit Jihad(certain not against non-muslims), as your Prophet did.

This hadith rids of any confusion you might have:
There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace be upon him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognize him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.

(Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 37, No. 4310)

There are many more authentic proofs to destroy claims of Mirza Ahmad that he was a prophet, are you ready to handle the truth? Are you ready to do the reality check which is bad and sadly needed? Are you ready to do what ALLAH wants us to do in Quran and what Mohammad, the son of Abdullah thought us to do, and NOT what british government tell you to do? Are you ready my friend?

Jesus, son of Mary, will descend near the white minaret towards the east of Damascus.
(Tabarani)

Kahan damascus and kahan plaqued Qadian…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Yes, please give the reference don’t have to ask my permission, I am not british government my friend. You can post references of anything without asking me, I like references, given that they are CORRECT and not misinterpreted with conjectures in order to prove ones point.

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Imam Mehdi:

The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs.

(Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207;
also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa’id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra)

Did Mirza Sahib ruled over Arabs? Was he from family of the prophet? No is the answer to both questions.

Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression.

(Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99)

You say Mirza Sahib was Mehdi? Why do we still have likes of Sadam and oppression Palestinians by Israelis? Can you honestly tell me that there is JUSTICE naam ki cheez on this planet?

A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: "No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them.

(Sahih Muslim)

My dear friend, now the question remains, do you deny the authentic hadiths and verses from quran which was revealed on MOHAMMAD(pbuh)???

You did not shed any light on OTHER prophecies your prophet? Care to tell us if they came true or not? You call your self a believer, you believe in them, why my friend, why when those prophecies never came true, you know it, I know it, this whole forum knows it, your imperial british government knew it, the people in British parliment know it…why are you believing something which never took place?

*PS: When I die someday, you can THEN come and tell the whole world that you had a dream about me dying and then you received a revealation from Allah that I would die… as your prophet did when his father died…check last few lines on that site you gave me. *

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

*PS2: We are not judging Jihad on basis of what is happening in the world, we are judging it on basis of WHAT IS IN THE BOOK OF ALLAH, THE QURAN - which was revealed on MOhammad(pbuh) and we are judging Jihad on basis of SUNNAH of MOhammad(pbuH). *

Ps3: When the claims of truth become many, we as Muslims were ordered by Allah to seek the Truth by the proof, by the proof the Truth is known, because always there is only One Truth Which is the real truth.

PS4: References are provided just for your comfort and easement, hope you like the service.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

-profoundly & Consequentially yours,

The Watcher

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited March 13, 2001).]*

8

1. Watcher says: “So, Zalim according to dates you have provided(1835-1908), Mirza Sahibs prophecy still didn’t come true, correct? He was 73, when he died. What is your point? What is the point if he was 73 or 72 or 78? He lied in HIS OWN PROPHECY about HIS OWN AGE”.

I think I have already told you that the prophecies as you are trying to impose are simple mockery against Ahmadis, and they hold no truth. Don’t try to be smart now. Someone has already quoted the actual prophecy for you, let me put it over here again. And if you don’t want to accept, then who cares.

I can scan it for you (still waiting for my computer to be fixed), but you delibrately ignored my question i asked above. What will you do if I prove it right? Accept him, or Still hunt for another excuse?

**2. Watcher says: *“What do you say about this verse from QURAN which was revealed on MOhammad(pbuh) son of Abdullah:

O people! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Apostle of God and ‘THE LAST IN THE LINE OF PROPHETS’. And God is Aware of everything. * **
Watcher I think there is already a thread running on this issue, and I have replied you very logically and realistically over there, though you fail miserably to give me any significance and reference from Quran for the word LAST.

CLICK HERE [your answer is still pending on the comment I wrote]](http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/001840.html)

For the rest of the debate, I think it will be better to take one topic and one verse at a time, instead of jumbling up and leaving most of the questions un-addressed. After all we have to keep this place user-friendly for the silent reader also.

respectfully yours,

Zalim

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited March 14, 2001).]