none of the quotes says that taking amrit is necessary to become a sikh
On the contrary, that is exactly what those quotes do say. Are you reading a different article?
xtreme, pls. look for a better website
It is a genuine sikh website with genuine sikh views from a genuine sikh. Who do you think I am going to believe, them or you? Excuse me ZZ, but just like we don't need hindus to re-define what islam is, we don't need you to tell us what sikhism is either.
Nice try.
They talk of necessity of having guru, but not of amrit.
To give an example, all the pictures of Sikh gurus are done last century. We do not know if all the gurus indeed grew beards. There is no evidence to show that all of them grew beard and grew hair. That was a later reequirement, that too for amritdharis.
Importance of gurus has been emphasized in sikhism all over. howevr, amrit ceremony came long later. now how does one link ceremony with importance of guru.
[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited July 24, 2000).]
Sikhism is kind of like Kashmir. Both Hindus and Muslims have to fight over to prove that it belongs to them.:)
Sikhism was not created at one particular moment in space and time. It evloved ove a period of over 200 years. Being an baptised Khalsa does not conflict with any of the Sikh scriptures. Guru Nanak did not ask his disciples to keep hair but he no where in his writing told them to not to keep them either. Sikhs believe that all 10 Guru's were teh same soul(after guruship)....What the tenth Nanak formalised a Sikh is a practical form of the theory that was put forward by the First Nanak.
ZZ, tell me honestly, why are most Hindus I have interacted and talked to so much against Khalsa, Guru Gobind Singh, and Amrit? Is it not Guru Gobind Singh who at the age of 9 told his father that who will be a greater Saint to give his life to save the religion of Kashmiri Pandits? I mean what is that makes them feel that way?
[quote]
Originally posted by ChannMahi:
Sikhism is kind of like Kashmir. Both Hindus and Muslims have to fight over to prove that it belongs to them.:)
Sikhism was not created at one particular moment in space and time. It evloved ove a period of over 200 years. Being an baptised Khalsa does not conflict with any of the Sikh scriptures. Guru Nanak did not ask his disciples to keep hair but he no where in his writing told them to not to keep them either. Sikhs believe that all 10 Guru's were teh same soul(after guruship)....What the tenth Nanak formalised a Sikh is a practical form of the theory that was put forward by the First Nanak.
ZZ, tell me honestly, why are most Hindus I have interacted and talked to so much against Khalsa, Guru Gobind Singh, and Amrit? Is it not Guru Gobind Singh who at the age of 9 told his father that who will be a greater Saint to give his life to save the religion of Kashmiri Pandits? I mean what is that makes them feel that way?
[/quote]
Perhaps, it belongs to everyone. Just like Jesus is not a property of Cristians. Truth belongs to everyone. Why Sikhs have to jealously guard to see that it does not belong to anyone else. If a book is holy to A as well as to B, it becomes more holy, not less. Sikhism is not a teritory and need not be equated with Kashmir.
All I am arguing is not different from what u are arguing. All I am saying is that non amritdharis are as well a part of panth which is what u said and which is clearly true in practice. If u have changed ur mind and u believe otherwise, let us know why u think so.
I cant speak for what hindus u interacted with. However, I have not talked anywhere against khalsa or amrit. As far as Guru Givind Singh ji is concerned, I have utmost respect and I am sure u can not find a single utterence from me which says otherwise.
[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited July 24, 2000).]
ZZ,
You are right Sikh gurus belong to all Indians and not only that but to whole humanity. Sikh gurudwaras have four doors, to welcome everybody and nobody can be refused entry in the gurdwara, based on their caste or creed. Also, all the painting were painted in last century but most religious saints in India kept hair, even if they had hair or beard they were following the tradition of old sages.
Guru Nanak said
Awal Allah noor au paiya Kudraat de sub Bunday,
Ek noor tai sub jag Upjay Kaun Bhalay Kaun Munday.
Translantion all human being come from same light and are part of same creation.
whole universe was created by one creator , how can be anybody be good or bad. In other words everybody regardless of their caste or religion are equal because they all are part of the same creation and created by the same creator.
P.S. Sikhism places great emphasis on good Karma...being amritdari is not end in all, being a good person (honest) making living by honest means(Kirt Kamayai) and sharing with less fortunate (Vand Chakhana) are very important principles.
Xtreme,
I didn't have time to read your lengthy post. I will reply later.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 24, 2000).]