Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

[Jolie]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

@hareem01

I think Pakistan do have a culture of its own. You can easily tell the difference between a Pakistani and Indian wedding though they might have some similarities. Pakistanis are more elegant and sophisticated (cough cough).

Also, I think Pakistani nation is famous for loving the Prophet (pbuh) and the celebrations of mawlid is an amazing phenomena in Pakistan IMO. We have amazing Islamic architecture too. And majority of people do try to stick to Islamic traditions and rules.

Btw, I hope you mean females kissing their male shaykh’s hand is not allowed.

Our Arab friends disagree.

Just recently I came across a massive argument on how shab e baraat is a massive biddah only followed by South Asian Muslims. Great.

[Jolie]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

@hareem01

Why is ‘Arabs’ = ‘house of Sauds/wahabis’? They are a minority even among the Arab Nation.

Yet the most powerful entity.

From my experience, majority of the Arabs follow that doctrine in some way or form, if not entirely.

[hareem01]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

Yes, and Arabs and Arabic is actually part of our ‘culture’ and ‘history’.

I personally think this whole debate of you vs me is futile.

We should be accepting of every language and culture.

[hareem01]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

@Jolie

Yet the most powerful entity.

From my experience, majority of the Arabs follow that doctrine in some way or form, if not entirely.

hmph…Only in Qatar and Saudi Arabia they follow Abdul Wahab’s interpretations of Islam. Having said that, Qatar is a lot more liberal in terms of personal freedom.

[Jolie]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

@hareem01

Yes, and Arabs and Arabic is actually part of our ‘culture’ and ‘history’.

I personally think this whole debate of you vs me is futile.

We should be accepting of every language and culture.

Of course its not futile when you think about the state Pakistan is, the increasing level of religious and political extremism, the cultural deterioration of the country. The toxic atmosphere of confusion where different types of groups are hellbent of pushing either most pathetic form of Westernization or Saudiastion of the society through different mediums. Current day Pakistan is the most confused and dived society and it has nothing to do with romantic notions of ‘accepting’ another language. The ground realities are different and things go lot deeper than that.

There is obviously a discontent in the society as regards to Arabisation of Pakistan and the article just reflects that, just like articles are often written to criticize the superficial and totally self invented ‘liberalism’ in the country.

Anyway, the whole discussion is a stepping into forum Pakistan Affairs territory.

[hareem01]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

@Jolie

Our Arab friends disagree.

Just recently I came across a massive argument on how shab e baraat is a massive biddah only followed by South Asian Muslims. Great.

This is the belief of majority in Saudi and Qatar because majority is wahabi/ahle hadith. But hey, we have a Qatari brother regular participant in dhikr gatherings.

The reason why we think majority of Arabs are wahabi, and why Muslims in general think Wahabi are in majority because of the patro-dollars being invested day and night by the rulers in promoting their version of religion.

I’ve seen people who aren’t even wahabi following the wahabi Islam without realizing.

[hareem01]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

@Jolie

Of course its not futile when you think about the state Pakistan is, the level of religious and political extremism in Pakistan, the cultural deterioration of the country. The toxic atmosphere of confusion where different types of groups are hellbent of pushing either most pathetic form of Westernization or Saudiastion of the society through different mediums. Current day Pakistan is the most confused and dived society and it has nothing to do with romantic notions of ‘accepting’ another language. The ground realities are different.

Anyway, the whole discussion is a stepping into forum Pakistan Affairs territory.

yeah agree with you…but so is the case in a lot of Muslim countries, sadly. Look at the ancient library that was burnt down recently in Timbuktu. Things are going crazy everywhere…or in other words, stage for the final days is being set.

[Jolie]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

@hareem01

yeah agree with you…but so is the case in a lot of Muslim countries, sadly. Look at the ancient library that was burnt down recently in Timbuktu. Things are going crazy everywhere…or in other words, stage for the final days is being set.

Its depressing isn’t it?

We as Pakistanis are fusion of lots of different races, cultures and customs. Our land is full of diversity, mystery and colours. We must learn and appreciate every aspect of our heritage. We are not Arabs nor we can ever be like Arabs, why should we? There are the guiding principles of Islam and then there is Arabic culture, two totally different things. I don’t understand why some Muslims want to confuse these two.

For all the usual arguments that Pakistan was made to be an Islamic State (funnily enough the title of ‘Islamic Republic’ wasn’t even given to her at the time of her birth lol) if Jinnah was around today, he would’ve personally closed down every single Saudi madarass in the state. The shows what kind of Islam the founding father wanted for the country.

[hareem01]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

@Jolie

Its depressing isn’t it?

We as Pakistanis are fusion of lots of different races, cultures and customs. Our land is full of diversity, mystery and colours. We must learn and appreciate every aspect of our heritage.

For all the usual arguments that Pakistan was made to be an Islamic State (funnily enough the title of ‘Islamic Republic’ wasn’t even the title given to her at the time of her birth lol) if Jinnah was alive today, he would’ve personally closed down every single Saudi madarass in the state.

Jinnah was never really clear on this issue. He was probably being diplomatic to win the support from both sides (religious and secular).

Besides I think there’s no guarantee that there wouldn’t have been any elements of extremism without the existence of madrassahs. Tribal Areas have a long history of disputes and wars going back to British Raj. I guess madrassah culture has definitely made it worse in Pakistan and the extreme ideology has done damage to Islam on the whole more than anything else.

I’ve heard in a lecture that there are people who actually became Muslim just by visiting places like Sawat due to its natural beauty…it’s heart breaking to see tourists getting murdered in these places.

Oh well, we can only pray. :hinna:

[Xtron]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

Ramadan Kareem to each and everyone of you!. May Allah shower all of us Muslims with tons of blessings and good deeds..Aameen..

[kakaballi]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

When we write these words in English, we are declaring that our ‘culture’ is evolving. When our dress, food, music, etc can evolve and accept foreign influences, why not language?

Adopting foreign words because either they sound cool or because we think they are better (for whatever reason) than existing words shouldn’t be a problem. Forcing others to follow what we think is cool or better is a problem.

[kakaballi]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

In other news…

BBC News - Japan’s NHK sued over use of English words

A disgruntled viewer is suing Japan’s national broadcaster for mental distress caused by an excessive use of words borrowed from English.

Hoji Takahashi, 71, is seeking 1.4 million yen ($14,300; £9,300) in damages from NHK.

“The basis of his concern is that Japan is being too Americanised,” his lawyer Mutsuo Miyata told the news agency AFP…

[Captain_Obvious]

Re: Ramzan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem?

I’ll personally say Ramadan Mubarak to people.

@STONECOLD

We give the Arabs undue importance. And they treat our countrymen worse than dogs. But thats ok because they are Arabs.
Khuda Hafiz

That’s not true from what I’ve experienced. I’ve interacted with Arabs from many different places. Those who are practicing Muslims (and even some who don’t practice all that much) appreciate practicing Muslim non-Arabs better than non-practicing Arabs. Many times they’ll ask you to lead salaat, they’ll even have their kids learn Qur’an or even deen itself from non-Arabs in several cases that I’ve seen.

@khattichic

I was at a darz/milaad once and got yelled by an elderly aunty for saying “khuda hafiz”. She told me that it’s incorrect because “khuda bahot hotain hain aur Allah sirf aik hai” so always say “allah hafiz”…err…okay…i didn’t quite understand that logic. This lady spent all 70 years of her life speaking Urdu in India/Pakistan and I raised speaking fluent Urdu by Urdu speaking parents and it’s always been “khuda hafiz” when saying goodbye to someone.

Ramzan/Ramadan…Mubarak/Kareem…Yalla/Challo…Walahi/Kasam khuda ki…Jazak Allah/Shukriya…who the heck cares. If someone wants to use the arabic vs the urdu, meri bhalaa se…why should it matter?

The reason I’ll use the Arabic version of many words/terms, particularly ones relating to deen is that in many cases, a translation of these is an approximation. One example of this is the words Allah in Arabic and God in English/Khuda in Urdu. I’ll mostly use the latter if discussing it with a non-Muslim, because it’s approximation and a similar concept but there are differences in what they encompass.

In the case of saying JazakAllah vs. Thanks (or its translation in any other language) is that the former is a dua you’re giving someone. I might use Shukran if talking to an Arab non-Muslim or an Arab but I’m not sure if he’s Muslim or not but not with anybody else.

I have my reasons for choosing the Arabic when I do but it’s never about giving blind importance to Arabs. There are also a lot of cases where I’ll differ from them in practice. Some cases are the way they pray–I’ll stick to how I’ve learned from ulema (who may also happen to be non-Arab) and particularly what I’ve been taught about the Hanafi method. Case in point, I won’t do splits in salaat although many Arabs brothers do (ok so this is hyperbole). I also will not make wudhu by doing masah over just any socks, nor will I pray behind anyone who has done so. I can mention several other examples, but I’ll leave it at that for now.

The reason I’ll use Ramadan rather than Ramzan is because I pronounce it in Arabic. I’ll do that with English words too…I won’t replace v with w if I’m talking to a desi person.