Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
Now on to securities. Can muslims buy or sell equities..trade FI products?
I will give you my finalized views on this after the above answer.
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
What I know that buying/selling equities are fine as long as it does not involve Riba
The reason is my first quotation as follows:
275** “Those who devour usury will not stand except as stands one whom the Satan by his touch has driven to madness. That is because they say, “trade is like usury”, but Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden usury”, **
(Surah Al Baqarah :2)
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
^ thanks... the verdict is as follows.
According to your interpretation of RIBA, there is a disconnect between the instrument which accounts for future value of an asset/cash or paper as haram and usury. Since the 7th century when islam came about with this concept (a noble concept-I will explain later) there has been tremendous growth in global economics and finance. And no where it is more obvious than with the ability to establish value to cash in terms of time. Cash is the most liquid of assets, it is what makes it king. By lending cash the lender is forgoing the capital's ability to buy himself something else (opportunity costs) and by borrowing the lendee is absorbing that same opportunity cost + risk (cost of capital) as interest. Interest is basically the mechanism or the instrument that gives a certain value to cash for the duration of the loan.
The terms of the loan are what should be considered RIBA or not. Usury is RIBA, not interest. Interest merely is the instrument...it is the charging of obscene interest (loansharking) that is RIBA. Islam has a beautiful message that says one should not charge obscene levels of interest to take advantage of the lendee's need. But that is where it should stop. To go on to interepret this as RIBA=Interest is wrong.
Now, capital market products like instruments created off of assets that are traded place a huge value on what could be termed RIBA. Junk Bonds for example..are contracts which establish a rate of return (interest) for short term lending. Perfectly legal and perfectly amenable to both buyer and seller. These instruments would be considered haram under Islam. Islam when written could not fathom the growth of stock excahnges and capital markets as we see today. It's intransience whether it be consumer or investment banking ( more and more humans have access to capital markets than ever before and this is growing) is what makes it unprgmatic.
I think Islam's message needs to be revised to accomodate the change in human condition. Because the alternative is that it is muslims who lose out when the global GDP in 30-50 yrs becomes 60-70% financial services.
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
what if a person wants to buy a home..he isnt suppose to take out mortgage..and he doesnt have the entire amount either..what to do then?
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
Live on rent. America is built on the concept of credit because the future is always brighter.
AQ< does you company practice RIBA? Have you ensured that your pay check is not from a RIBA account?
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
^
live on rent....
whats the big deal????
interest is forbidden....
as is stealing....
if u cant afford something, will u steal it????
or prefer to live without it, just cuz Allah has forbidden it....
and matty, u aint a muslim so why r u wasting ur time here....
go play elsewhere....
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
^ Yup…when U have nothing to add and are out of your league…same old lines… 
sadsacks.. 
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
aray…what happened to the resident mullahs? where did you all run off to? Paying of your credit cards? come on boys let’s talk RIBA.
How many cyber mullahs on this site work for companies in the west? Let’s talk corporate treasury and RIBA..come boys… let’s dance. 
let’s talk about how you pay for khusras on PakSN. let’s talk RIBA :rotato:
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
Matsui: Islam’s message is universal for all time. Interest is RIBA and calling it some good instrument is an example of what I had quoted already above because I knew you were coming up with that. I will rather learn my Islam from the sayings of my prophet:saw: than someone who is not even a Muslim. Thanks for the advice which can astray me from my path.
Sheraz CT: I am amazed, you haven’t heard of things like This
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
Mullahs also work during the day.
and yeah as for my company, amazingly, I never researched for that but by the Grace of ALLAH:swt:, I just have discovered that we do not charge interest when dealing with our clients.
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
^ Islam's message is not universal for all times. the universal message which is there in all religions is to be a good person and not cheat another...not to take advantage of another. When religions go above and beyond simple and timeless concepts like these they are full of holes...like Islam equating Interest with RIBA. This equation makes Islam only relevant for the 7th century when dealing with finance and economics.
If the esteemed prophet would have known about high yield bonds maybe he would have not equated RIBA with interest. I still think that he meant usury but mullahs like yourself have not understood. I am here to teach you the difference.
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
Have you checked the account from which your paycheck is drawn from? Dollars to donuts it collects interest. Might want to check if that means it is tainted money you have been holding on to under your mattress.
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
Matsui: you are a hindu and you are already wrong.
Thankyouverymuch.
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
No sir! it’s not interest. go eat your tiny munchkins.
Hindu in Islamic discussion = Begaani shaadi maiN Abdullah Deewaana.
shu shu
Prophetic Perspective on Usury
These ahaadith have been taken from** Mishkat-ul-Masabih** under the section of interest and the English translation has been taken from its English version written by Al Hajj Moulana Fazl Karim (218-227 vol. II)
Hazrat Jabir 
has reported that **the Messenger of Allah :saw: cursed the devourer of usury, its payer, its scribe and its two witnesses. He also said that they were equal (in sin). **[right](Muslim)[/right]
[right] [/right]
Hazrat Abu Hurairah reported that the Holy Prophet :saw:said: A time will certainly come over the people when none will remain who will not devour usury. If he does not devour it, its vapour will overtake him.
(Ahmed, Abu Dawood, Nisai, Ibn Majah.)
Hazrat Abu Hurairah radiyallahu anhu reported that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wasallm said : Usury has got seventy divisions. The easiest division of them is a man marrying his mother.
[right](Ibn Majah)[/right]
Hazrat Abu Hurairah *radiyallahu anhu *reported that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wasallm said: I came across some people in the night in which I was taken to the heavens. Their stomachs were like houses wherein there were serpents, which could be seen from the front of their stomachs. I asked: O Gabriel! Who are these people? He replied these are those who devoured usury.
[right](Ahmed, Ibn Majah)[/right]
Hazrat Ali *radiyallahu anhu *reported that **he heard the Messenger of Allah:saw: cursing the devourer of usury, its giver, its scribe and one who refuses to give Zakat and he used to forbid mourning. **
right[/right]
Hazrat Umar bin Al-Khattab:razi:reported: the last of what was revealed was the verse of usury. The Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wasallm was taken and he had not explained it to us. So, give up usury and doubt.
[right](Ibn Majah, Darimi)[/right]
Hazrat Abdullah bin Hanzalah radiyallahu anhu (who was washed by the angels) reported that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wasallm said: A dirham of usury that a man devours and he knows is greater than 36 fornications.
[right](Ahmed, Darqutni)[/right]
Baihaqi reported from Ibn Abbas radiyallahu anhu in shuabul iman. He added and said: (**as for) one whose flesh has grown out of unlawful food, the fire is more suitable for him. **
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
^ that's it? that is all you could come up with. No quotes form the book..no rationalization for your pov? This is what I see. Guys like you are only good for declaring people infidel, pointing out why someone is less muslim than you. But when it comes down to defending a simple concept that you yourself put up about your own illfounded understanding of your own religion...you become flip? I am a non muslim and I have a deeper understanding of what Islam says on this subject. chullu bhar...yada yada..
I think you should go and maybe open some more threads on why it is allowed to stand and chew gum at the same time but only before 4 pm est Because it takes time away from analyzing what the messages within a wonderful religtion like ISlam is.
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
Matsui: you are blind even after reading all the quotes.
A hindu will teach us Islam... LOL
shu shu
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
Not only you pal..but I can go as far back as you want and teach the authors to clarify..so that mindless sots can decipher the noble messages instead of making a mockery of conventional wisdom.
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
why don’t you first become muslim and read Quran with it’s context and how the life of the prophet:saw: was. Not only that, you will have to un-learn the Islam you have learnt from Christian/jewish media.
Re: Quranic Perspective on Usury
I am a muslim in my own way. I am also a hindu. allah and ram are the same to me. Makes no difference. But is it obvious that you have no idea of what the good book is saying. let me repeat, "usury is wrong". All religions prescribe the same mantra, Islam is the same as hinduism as buddhism as christianity when suggesting this..which is a noble concept. Usury means loansharking...it doesn't mean interest. Mullahs, who usually are not the smartest of the lot have reinforced that Usury=Interest. And the sheep throughout Millenia have followed suit.