Quota system in Pakistan.

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

Well said :biggthumb

22

Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

First of all you do not know the situation or history of Pakistan or Sindh and to talk to you anything sensible would be futile. Anyhow:

Now let’s see what does this Indian immigrant know about the history of Pakistan :)

I will try to ignore all this old man’s usual hungry, bhooka nanga, choor kinda rant and reply to few sensible lines that he incidentally managed to come out with.

You should know that subcontinent (especially area that is now Pakistan) has kept taking foreigners like you from Afghanistan, Iran, Arab and Turkistan who being incompetent hungry lots and looters came to India as invaders and pushed people of this area further and further into centre India. What you think where these Pashtuns in NWFP came from and who was living in those areas that is now NWFP or Baluchistan?

Which people were living in NWFP and Balochestan before? **<EDIT>** Man, one rarely comes across such an ignorant old man like you. All these folks who are now living in these areas are the original inhabitants and have been living here since time immemorial. The whole area lying to the west of Indus is anyhow is an extension of the Iranian culture and civilization that stretches from Tigris in the west to Indus in the east, and from Farghana in the north to Sistan / Balochestan in the south.

As for Afghans living in Sindh, what they are doing in Sindh? These people who are descendents of Qaum-e-Lut should go to Afghanistan and live in their Stone-age Country and ride donkeys. If people of Afghanistan were any worthwhile and respectable people than they would have made Afghanistan a developed country, but they do not find time other than riding donkeys and growing drugs.

Why can I say. Maybe they are more interested in riding a Bihari like you than a donkey. Look everyone needs change sometimes.

NOTE: No name calling, keep insults out of thread!

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

Look this is an article from Dawn newpaper. This guy is talking about building a common Pak and Afghan destiny. A great article, although I'm not agreed with everythign said in this article.

Some people may find it boring....because donkey, chors, smugllers, cowards. bhookey nangay and Biharis are not mentioned in this article.

Pakistan and Afghanistan: Can they build a common destiny?
10 August 2000 Thursday 09 Jamadi-ul-Awwal 1421
By A. Abdulla and K. Hasan

THE nature of relationship between Afghanistan and Pakistan is a very delicate one. Leaving aside the recent realities (past 20 years) of the close brotherly relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan during the jehad against the Soviets/Communists, and now the dominance of the Afghan Taliban, prior to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan many Afghans were uneasy towards the region now forming Pakistan.
What had embittered the feelings of the Afghans was the taking away of Pashtun inhabited territories by the Sikhs who perpetrated brutal atrocities on their Muslim subjects and made their existence miserable.
Similarly, their successors, the British, were no less antagonistic towards the Pashtuns and waged constant war against them, causing great hardships and miseries to the inhabitants of the entire area. The Pashtuns of what is called today the NWFP/Sarhad and the Tribal Areas of Pakistan had to make tremendous sacrifices for about 130 years both under the Sikhs and the British (1818-1947). It was this misfortune of the Pashtuns of this belt that was partly responsible for the attempts made by the Kabul rulers to get it back.
But from August 14, 1947 things have taken a different turn and the entire perspective has changed. The Pashtuns of neither the settled regions nor of the Tribal Areas are subjected to any discrimination nor any expeditions sent against them or armies deployed to suppress them. They are citizens of a free state where they enjoy the same rights as people of other provinces. Pashtuns hold positions of the highest responsibility in civil as well as military services of Pakistan.
Since the day Mahmud Ghaznavi entered this subcontinent, Pashtuns have been a constant factor in political, social and military life of the Muslims of this subcontinent. In terms of time from 1000 AD onwards for about a thousand years, and in terms of space from Chitral to Chittagong and from the Himalayas to Cape Comorin, the ubiquitous Pashtun has always been there. There is no city or town in this subcontinent with Muslim population without Pashtun 'mohallas' or neighbourhoods and there is hardly a Muslim family which has not entered into matrimonial relations with the Pashtuns.
As far as Afghanistan is concerned we can very well understand the feelings of Amir Dost Mohammed, Sher Ali, Abdur Rehman Khan and King Amanullah towards fellow Pashtuns east of the Durand Line living under non-Muslim rule during their time. But today they are not living under non-Muslim rule.
No decision on any issue can be taken by the government of Pakistan without the consent of the Pashtuns living in Pakistan. Further, since they are spread over the NWFP and Quetta division of Balochistan, they will wield power in the governments of both provinces in any constitutional set-up.
A few words about the fusion of the two brotherly countries. The idea of Afghanistan forming an autonomous province of Pakistan is not an unfamiliar or impracticable one. The letter 'alif' in the Urdu (or 'A' in English) word 'Pakistan' stands for Afghans. Both Jamaluddin Afghani and Allama Iqbal cherished the concept of North-West British India and Afghanistan together forming a single Muslim state.
A fusion of the two would be pregnant with immense possibilities not only for the people of the two countries but for the entire Muslim world. There is nothing wrong or repugnant in this idea. The combined strength of the Pashtuns from the Indus to the Oxus and from Dir to Herat would ensure their internal autonomy as well as a strong voice and a powerful say in the government of Pakistan.Furthermore, such confederation will be a diluting factor for the predominant groups of Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Punjabis in Pakistan, thus creating a better balance among all groups. World trends are towards greater integration and larger pooling of resources. Let the Afghans give the idea a calm and cool consideration in the larger interests of Muslim unity. There is plenty of commonality between Pakistan and Afghanistan in respect of their religion, culture, race, history, geography, etc.
Here I would like to quote a paragraph relevant to this aspect from W.K. Frazer Tytler's book "Afghanistan: A Study of Political Developments in Central and Southern Asia". He writes: "It is indeed a strange feature of this complicated situation that there exists, like a cancer in the body politic of northern South Asia, this collection of 'independent' tribes, well armed, intractable and formidable, who may at anytime disturb relations and disrupt the economy of either of the states in whose midst they dwell. It is an anachronism and a danger to the stability of northern South Asia and the peace of Central Asia. The remedy is the fusion of the two states of Afghanistan and Pakistan in some way or other. It may be argued that, given the differences in mental and political outlook of the two states, such fusion is impossible. This may be so; I am in no position to argue the matter. But history suggests that fusion will take place, if not peacefully, then by force." This is the view of an eminent western author.
The above study brings out two alternatives for the solution of Pak-Afghan problems. Either the Durand Line remains, enabling the people of the Pashtun race to play a leading role in both Afghanistan and Pakistan which should lead to the shelving of 'Pakhtunistan' issue forever and the establishment of amicable relations between the two, or, since one of the objectives of setting up an independent state (Pakistan) in the north-western parts of British India was to include in its fold Muslims living up to the Hindu Kush or the Oxus which have been the traditional boundaries of all the Muslim and pre-Muslim dynasties of this area, a fusion of Afghanistan and Pakistan is highly desirable.
Such a development would be natural, normal and highly rewarding. It will benefit both, strengthen both, and open up new vistas for both. As the present boundaries of Afghanistan skip the Hindu Kush and lie along the Oxus, the possibilities are considerably broader and potentialities exceedingly brighter.
The whole issue needs to be studied in a historical, cultural and religious perspective and not in terms of modern, recently nurtured ideas of parochial western nationalism. We have to break the linguistic and racial barriers sometime and somewhere and demonstrate to the world that Muslim nationalism does not brook petty ideas and does not believe in tenuous bonds. The best place to demonstrate the superiority of Islamic principles of nationalism is between the Sutlej and the Oxus and the best time is the 21st century.
Common rule over Pakistan and Afghanistan is not a new or novel idea in the context of history. The Sakas, Parthians, Graeco-Bactrians, Kushans, Ghaznavids, Abdalis and many others were rulers of both the countries with their capital either at Peshawar, Taxila, Ghazna or Qandahar.
Then, the territories now forming Afghanistan have great political significance for the Muslims of South Asia. From its bosom have originated movements and monarchs who established Muslim rule in areas of today's Pakistan, and later in the entire subcontinent.
Mahmud Ghaznavi, though a Turk, was born and brought up in Ghazna in Afghanistan and it was with the help of Afghan soldiers that he conquered several cities in northern India and introduced Muslim rule in the areas now known as Pakistan (11th century AD). Mohammad Ghori, though of Turko-Persian origin, was born and nurtured at Ghor in Afghanistan. It was again with the help of Afghan soldiers that he extended Muslim sway over the whole of northern India (12th-13th century AD). It was again an Afghan, Alauddin Khilji, who extended Muslim rule for the first time to southern India up to Cape Comorin (end of 13th and early 14th century AD).
Zahiruddin Baber, though a Barlas Turk, conquered parts of Afghanistan and stayed in Kabul for twenty years, making it a base for the conquest of the subcontinent where he finally established Mughal rule.
It were the Afghan dynasties of Lodhis and Suris that strengthened the base of Muslim rule in India by introducing land reforms, by bringing the rulers (Muslims) and the ruled (Hindus) closer to each other and by encouraging cultural and literary activities.
It will be noticed that almost all the Muslim dynasties that ruled over this subcontinent sprang from the territories now constituting the state of Afghanistan - Ghaznavids, Ghorids, Khiljis, Lodhis, Suris and Mughals, not to speak of the various Afghan dynasties that ruled over the provinces.
And finally when the Mughals were facing extinction of the hands of the Marathas and the Sikhs, it was again an Afghan, Ahmed Shah Abdali, who came to their rescue (middle of 18th century) and allowed them a brief respite. But since the Mughals were a spent force and unable to rise again, the support and succour provided by Abdali proved of no avail.
However, Abdali being a shrewd and sensible leader, aware of the huge anti-Muslim forces raising their head, and conscious of the limitations of his own power, established his hold, as a first step, in the north-western corner naming it Afghanistan (1747 AD). Pakistan is merely an extension of Abdali's kingdom. In fact, Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and Kashmir formed part of it during reigns of Abdali, his son Taimur Shah and during a short period of the latter's sons Shah Zaman and Shah Shuja. In view of this historical background, Pakistan and Afghanistan cannot remain separate from each other for long, especially when the same forces that Abdali had faced and crushed in the 18th century are again, in a different garb (India), posing a threat to the independence of this entire region.

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

** Jinnah was born in karachi, but he was bombayian by race and family.

**Is it not true that his ancestors were actually from Multan?

** Oh yeah, no one can match the NWFP standard of higher education. No wonder they create so many PHDs, though rest of the world, mistake them as mullahs.

**bhai MQM, don't get jealous. The education standard of NWFP has gone up and they have some really very good institutions now. I persoanlly know 4 students from NWFP who recently did their Phd from Germany. One of them was even from Parachinar.

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

Congratulations.

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

Who decides the "qouta system" in Pakistan?

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

Quota system is a part of affirmative action , which tries to compensate the disadvantaged group , with a form of protection , ensuring some sort or minimum representation to safe gaurd their interests.

Pakistan has seen , three versions of Quota System.

1st one was introduced in Sep 1948 , it used a Regional/Provincial model for recruitment in Govt Jobs...and accordingly

Bengal had a 42% Quota 56% Population
Punjab a 23% Quota 28% Population
All Other provinces and Princely States had a 17% Quota 13.75 % Populatiion
Potential Immigrants from India 15% population considered about 9.8% as Potential
and Karachi had a 2% seperate Quota popuation 1.5%

.... this lead to the disparity we see till 71 .

This was then revised in Nov 49
and now instead of using the term Potential immigrant .... merit was used.
and new quota was

Merit 20%

Bengal 40%
Punjab including Bhawalpur 23%
Karachi 2%
All other 15%

and under the 1956 constitution its scope was uptill March 71. that is for 15 years.
1962 's constitution reduced the term for 10 years , that is till 72...so actually extended the term by a couple of months.

71 and subsequent break up of Pakistan changed not only the demographies , but also the weightage in terms of population shift.

Sindh started showing a heavy Urban/Rural ....divide as Ethinic divide ...between Sindhis nearly all rural and Mohajirs nearly all Urban.

the new percentages according to the changed realities was then

Merit 10%
Punjab 50%
NWFP 11.5 %
Balochistan 3.5%
FATA 4%
Azad Kashmir 2%

and Sindh 19% ..sub divided using a 60/40 formula of Urban/rural division into 11.4 Rural and 7.6 Urban .

this heavy Tilt away from Mohajir preference is /was the real cause of dis content , among mohajirs ....that took a ugly turn come 84 onward............. Period.

Source

Waseem Ahmed : Affirmative Action Policies in Pakistan

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

This heavy tilt in favour of Mohajirs till 71 , which had a total of 3% Popuation in United Pakistan ....as high as 22% confirmed quota ...

and then subsequent , sembalance in the Imbalance to 7.6 % their Real Percentage Post 71 , is the major cause of grievences .

30

Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

They were in government for last ten years,
And within ten days
Phir "Mazloom"

31

Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

He was talking about Urdu speaking people, not MQM. So your comment is directed towards ALL Urdu speaking people, not just MQM.
Shows your bias and ta'assub against Urdu speakers.

Men/women/children get killed indiscriminately because some people had waged "jihad" on them. If that is not "mazloom" then what is?
Stop being blinded by hatred.

32

Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

You are twisting the words only .
Ten years government.
All Urdu Speaking opponents killed are still in prison. Many living in other cities. Bulldozed " Bait ul Hamza"
They forgot quota System.
Now MQM is only responsible of Quota system
Killers are now Mazloom within ten days.
Kuchh Allah say dar nahin lagta, In qatlon ki hamait kartay hooay

33

Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

Quota system is nothing but poison for the system.

Even if Govt has to enforce such system, it should be done for minimal period and for heaven sake that period is over by long run in Pakistan's case. We all know how quota system is manipulated in Pakistan.

Problem is even more intensified in Sindh by further dividing quota b/w Urban and Rural sindh which in turn helped creating the mess we are in today. If this division was so helpful, I jut wonder why not implement same in rest of the provinces? Poor people in rural sindh got nothing. Becharey aaj bhi usee tarha zindagi guzar rahey hain.

34

Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

There is actually no quota system in Pakistan.
Two systems are parallel working.
One is mama chacha system and other is money making system.
All jobs are granted in this system.
Kisi Bhai Ya waderay ka hukm chalta hay.
And these are
"AAdat say majboor"

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

Thanks for the numbers.

It would seem that a complete abrogation of the quota system would be a difficult sell.

So perhaps something like a regressively/progressively increasing merit share would be acceptable.

Something like - from our current position, every year - 5% of each Provincial share will be reduced and added to the merit.

So a year from now we would have the merit percentage standing at 10 + (.05*90) = 14.5%
Next year it would be 14.5 + (0.05*86.5) = 18.8%
and so on so in about 20 years all would be merit.

The percentage decrease each year could be negotiated. Perhaps a larger decrease for Punjab and Urban Sindh.

The idea being that yes we recognize that historically some groups have had more access to education - and hence better job prospects - however in order to not create infinite dependency - the quota will gradually be abolished and completely gone by 20XX.

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

^ on paper it sounds like a plan to go with.

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

Because rural population in other provinces have not demanded it. The rural Sindh is still poor and under developed something that should have been rectified long ago as well.

However, the way forward should be to get rid of the government jobs altogether. Government servants should be kept to minimum and those hired should be on contracts as well instead of lifetime gaurantee. Huge amount of budget is being wasted on perks of politically hired useless government servants.

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Re: Quota system in Pakistan.

My points were simple ..
1- Qutoa System existed since 48
2- pre-71 there was heavy TILT in favour of Urdu speaking community .

..........and No one talks about it...

3- Post 71 , Quota system was just re-adjusted according to the population graphics , there was no bais in it.

... a few more points.
1- Pre - Partition , Karachi was an already developed city .
British govt spent 250,000 pounds sterling on the development of its port way back in 1867 .
and after the opening of Suez Canal (1869) Karachi became the biggest port exporting agricultural produce to the world from India.
by 1900 , it had become a magnet attracting a cosmopolitian population .

British , Hindus , Muslims,Sindhis , Balochs, Pathans , Punjabis ,Sikhs, yes Sikhs ...there is a Gurdwara at Manora Island] , Goan, Jews, Malbaris, Parsis, Iranis, Australians,Anglo-Indians , Chinese , Burmese , Katchis, Memons, Marwaris, Kathiwaris,Bohris,Agha Khanis,
Gujratis ,now who else is left....... anyway all sort.
there were Internaional Banks operating in this city.
as back as 1870's ...this was the Only city with a Metropolitian Corporation , which by the 1920 was electing its Mayor on rotational basis , between Parsis , Hindus and Muslims.

Unfortunately its educated Middle Class was Non- Muslim , mostly Hindus and Parsis .... a few Muslims , which left during Partition ....and created a void , that was never filled by the new Immigrants.
...instead the new immigrants created their Own self contained cocoon like existence

Today as per a Karachite Perception , area outside Karachi is infested with Jagerdars and Wadeyras who had in their clutches the rest of the population of Pakistan ............ Period

..........A lot of historical distortions , half-truths , ignoring FACTs and some time unashamed Lying took place , creating myths , self serving myths , feeding the victim hood mentality were created .
post 86 , these distotion took an ugly turn ...........and Now Karachi is not a normal city , to regain its sanity and for its people to come back to reality , honest introspection is required........which given the present situation ........I do not forsee..

it will take at least 15-20 years of NORMAL existence for a Karachite to get its bearing back from the created dis-orientation , he is in.