[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Correct yourself. Wahabis, Deobandis, Brelvis all are SUNNI. "Sunni" is term used for those who use Prophet's all companions and descendants as source of ahadith/fiqh.
[/QUOTE]
After all they have their separate identification also that distinguish them from main stream sunnies.
Thank you for correction.
Re: Re: Re: Questions to all Fundamentalists Muslims!
unlike what u think about Islam (from ur out-dated senseless sources) Islam is actually based on common sense and in some cases, where human mind fails to understand, upon the divine order of God Almighty…
but since u make it clear from ur words that u r in no mood of using any sort of sense, common or rare, and wish to blindly follow the biased comments fed to u by ur hatred-filled beliefs, i think no answer wud ever be stisfactory to u…
so much so, that if Quran says that the sun rises from the east u will simply reject it because u believe that the book is out-dated…
Basic Force
So let me get this straight.
You are only interested in Muslim fundamentalists but you do not know the meaning of the term and are interested in learning.
All World Scriptures are outdated, therefore none carry any weight in your eyes. Bah Bah Black Sheep is your form of guidance.
The most advanced people on earth are the Christians, but they do not follow the Bible or accept Jesus as a Holy person.
And you still want answers to hypothetical questions from fundamentalists who use outdated sources.
I tell you what. I use to own care homes for the Mentally Unstable and People with Learning Difficulties. I sold these a few years back. However, I still keep in contact with the new owners and I'm sure they can arrange a bed vacancy. I can have a word with them and they should be able to admit you offering a variety of alternative therapies. The aim is to help you back into the community after successful rehabilitation. The environment is very homely and the staff are well trained. You will like it!
Peace.
:biggthumb
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
After all they have their separate identification also that distinguish them from main stream sunnies.
Thank you for correction.
[/QUOTE]
Which one is MAIN STREAM? "Sunni" by itself is single no more, its divided into "Deoband" and "Brelvi". "Deo-bandi" thought is very close to "Wahabi" thought and often treated as one, but its not really true.
Now, again, which one is main stream?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Which one is MAIN STREAM? "Sunni" by itself is single no more, its divided into "Deoband" and "Brelvi". "Deo-bandi" thought is very close to "Wahabi" thought and often treated as one, but its not really true.
Now, again, which one is main stream?
[/QUOTE]
In my first answer to you, I did not included "Bralvies" in the list of pure fundamentalists muslims. I think they are the main stream sunnies.
They have introduced a term "Tareeqiat" which is considered parallel to "Sharriah Code". Unlike Sharriah code, This "Tareeqiat" is updatable and it can very from person to person. It is not as rigid as is the code of "Sharriah".
Actually all my critisism on "Sharriah Code" relates to only present day concept of "Sharriah" which is (presently) considered to be absolute rigid and unchangeable. Whereas I already have shown in some other thread that in early days of Islam, this "Sharriah" was not considered as much rigid, as today is being considered.
For Example, Hazrat Umer, the second caliph of Islam over rulled even the Quranic verses and introduces different punishments for certain crimes from that which were described in Quran.
It means that in the early days of Islam, "Sharriah Code" was not considered to be absolute unchangeable. It was changeable according to the requirements of changing world.
If this is the Islam, then it is respectable for me than any other thing else. But present "owners" of Islam who always try to enforce out dated and rigid ancient civil system in the present day world.... I only hate them.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions to all Fundamentalists Muslims!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
unlike what u think about Islam (from ur out-dated senseless sources) Islam is actually based on common sense and in some cases, where human mind fails to understand, upon the divine order of God Almighty....
but since u make it clear from ur words that u r in no mood of using any sort of sense, common or rare, and wish to blindly follow the biased comments fed to u by ur hatred-filled beliefs, i think no answer wud ever be stisfactory to u....
so much so, that if Quran says that the sun rises from the east u will simply reject it because u believe that the book is out-dated....
[/QUOTE]
If Islam is based on common sense then i respect this islam. Quran says that sun rises from east. No doubt it is common sense. I am bound to accept it. But this fact is not beyond the scope of todays ordinary common sense. To say in this present world that "sun rises from the east" cannot be considered as something very outstanding. Even small children know this. So if a child says that "sun rises from the east" would you consider that child to be absolute divine..??
Quran says some other things which do not satisfy our (present day's) common sense. Quran says that it is the heaven which is "hanged" over earth without any sport. This was in accordence with the 1400 years old common sense. But our present day's common sense suggests that it is not the "heaven" which is "hanged" over the earth, but it is the "earth" itself which is "hanged" in the "Empty Space".
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Basic Force
So let me get this straight.
You are only interested in Muslim fundamentalists but you do not know the meaning of the term and are interested in learning.
All World Scriptures are outdated, therefore none carry any weight in your eyes. Bah Bah Black Sheep is your form of guidance.
The most advanced people on earth are the Christians, but they do not follow the Bible or accept Jesus as a Holy person.
And you still want answers to hypothetical questions from fundamentalists who use outdated sources.
I tell you what. I use to own care homes for the Mentally Unstable and People with Learning Difficulties. I sold these a few years back. However, I still keep in contact with the new owners and I'm sure they can arrange a bed vacancy. I can have a word with them and they should be able to admit you offering a variety of alternative therapies. The aim is to help you back into the community after successful rehabilitation. The environment is very homely and the staff are well trained. You will like it!
Peace.
[/QUOTE]
"You are only interested in Muslim fundamentalists but you do not know the meaning of the term and are interested in learning."
No! I am not "interested" in "Muslim Fundamentalists" I only asked some questions from them. I know the literal meaning of the term but I did not used this term in the literal sense. My intent of using this term or what I want to say using this term...I already have described in my answer to Mr. Changes Like. I am not interested in learning the meanings from you. I already know. Do not try to answer me using dictionary meanings. Only try to answer in the light of what meaning I assign to this term in this thread. I already have defined it.
"All World Scriptures are outdated, therefore none carry any weight in your eyes. Bah Bah Black Sheep is your form of guidance.
The most advanced people on earth are the Christians, but they do not follow the Bible or accept Jesus as a Holy person."
Do not exaggerate. Not all world scriptures are out dated. Only religious scriptures are out dated.
"And you still want answers to hypothetical questions from fundamentalists who use outdated sources."
I do not want answers. I only want to see what they can say on these issues.
"I tell you what. I use to own care homes for the Mentally Unstable and People with Learning Difficulties. I sold these a few years back. However, I still keep in contact with the new owners and I'm sure they can arrange a bed vacancy. I can have a word with them and they should be able to admit you offering a variety of alternative therapies. The aim is to help you back into the community after successful rehabilitation. The environment is very homely and the staff are well trained. You will like it!"
I also thought that you must have some link to any such treatment center. I was right.
I am providing you a link for a free book online written by Dr. Maurice Bucaille, a French Scientist who embraced Islam.
The Bible, The Qur’an and Science. by. THE HOLY SCRIPTURES EXAMINED IN THE LIGHT OF MODERN KNOWLEDGE
This will answer all your scientific queries.
why you need to prove religen is sceince we might as well go to
local places of worship to get a degree?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
In my first answer to you, I did not included "Bralvies" in the list of pure fundamentalists muslims. I think they are the main stream sunnies.....
[/QUOTE]
I believe that all groups/sects think that they are THE ONE, they are the MAINSTREAM and everyone else is a sidetrack. Inventing things leads you to invent a track for yourself, I believe and for sure the one going on new track is not "mainstream".
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
I believe that all groups/sects think that they are THE ONE, they are the MAINSTREAM and everyone else is a sidetrack. Inventing things leads you to invent a track for yourself, I believe and for sure the one going on new track is not "mainstream".
[/QUOTE]
I know every one claims to be mainstream and it is really difficult to know which one is. But as an out side observer, I think that bralvies are the mainstream sunnies.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
I know every one claims to be mainstream and it is really difficult to know which one is. But as an out side observer, I think that bralvies are the mainstream sunnies.
[/QUOTE]
I don't know which stream you follow, but if you study Islamic practices in days of Prophet Mohammed PBUH they will not be as different from "deo-band", no "12 rabbiul awwal" celebrations, no "salam after azaan" etc.
Re: Questions to all Fundamentalists Muslims!
This whole argument falls upon a vital question that needs an answer, the question being, 'do you believe in a God?'
If yes then the discussion can move forward to whether this creator has given man a system to live by....
If your answer is no to the existence of God, then I would like to know why.
ali
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
Does God interfare in Human's Daily routine life?
If God is single then why so many religions with different sets of teachings?
Islamic Prayer timings have been set according to movement of sun in sky....How many prayers to offer near north or south pole areas where there are 6 months day and 6 months night...?? Have to perform only five prayers per year and one Jumma Prayer after every 7 years..???
Eid-ul-Fitter to be celebrated after having seen the first day moon in the sky. What if I am on the surface of moon on a mission for two years. How shall I see the 'first day moon' in the sky from the surface of moon..???
While staying on the surface of moon, which is the side of 'Kibla'.. How should I pray with my face towards kibla.
I offer my morning prayer in USA and then come to Pakistan on a very high speed Plane....I reach in Pakistan in just two hours. Here is time of night prayer... Am I exempt from noon, afternoon and evening prayers..???.......But.... In Pakistan, it is still previous date....Have I again to offer my night prayer.(which I already have performed yesterday night.)
Time is changing so fastly that it will lag behind all religions very soon..
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Basic Force
I tell you what. I use to own care homes for the Mentally Unstable and People with Learning Difficulties. I sold these a few years back. However, I still keep in contact with the new owners and I'm sure they can arrange a bed vacancy. I can have a word with them and they should be able to admit you offering a variety of alternative therapies. The aim is to help you back into the community after successful rehabilitation. The environment is very homely and the staff are well trained. You will like it!
Peace.
[/QUOTE]
hehehehe man this post of yours ought to be the funniest I have ever read, better than jokes. As for basic force get your basics straight and listen to sholay I think this will result in a better mentality level of yours. Once you are done with the therapy and finally will have some brains, you will read up your posts dig up a whole and jump in it and never come out. I got to give you the props to come up on a Muslim forum and try to prove us wrong on our grounds. On the same side you got to be the stupidest person in the world to come up with this kind of nonsense. I am pretty sure there are a lot of people on this forum who didn’t even bother to reply your post. To me you are no more than young kid who is still confused about his religious beliefs.
Peace.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
I don't know which stream you follow, but if you study Islamic practices in days of Prophet Mohammed PBUH they will not be as different from "deo-band", no "12 rabbiul awwal" celebrations, no "salam after azaan" etc.
[/QUOTE]
I do not follow any stream. As an out sider observer I think bralvies are the main stream sunnies. By the term "main stream", I do not mean "original sunny", by the term "main stream", I only mean "most influential" and "most popular" sunny sect.
Bralvies, by their nature, are more close to sufism than to (rigid) Islam.
Re: Re: Questions to all Fundamentalists Muslims!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by malikhan1983: *
This whole argument falls upon a vital question that needs an answer, the question being, 'do you believe in a God?'
If yes then the discussion can move forward to whether this creator has given man a system to live by....
If your answer is no to the existence of God, then I would like to know why.
ali
[/QUOTE]
Do I believe in a God...??
Yes! this is a relevant question for such a discussion to proceed.
God exists or not? Science offers no proof for the existance of God. Similarly science also do not offer any proof for the non-existance of God. Therefore "God exists", or "God do not exists" both statements are incorrect because none of them is provable. We can not say with certainty, any of these two statements. So if I say that "God exists", then infact I am telling a lie to myself because I am not certain about it. I do not have any significant proof to sport my claim. Similary if I say that "God does not exist", then also I am telling a lie to myself because again I do not have any significant proof to sport my claim.
The only thing which I can say with a positive mind is that "God may exist." In other words I accept the "possibility" of existance of God. To accept only the "possibility" of existance of God means that I do not "believe" in God.
I have no proof to "believe". I have no proof to "deny" the very existance of God. Since nothing is provable, so I accept equal "Possibility" for both statements to be true. Although only one of the statements appear to be true. Which one is true..??? I do not know. And this is the only correct thing which I can say with "certainty".
Therefore I do not "believe".
Barelviyat is the most popular sect in Indo-Pak subcontinent but I don’t think it’s true for the rest of the world. Even in Indo-Pak with proper religious education people are rapidly returning to orthodox Islam as practiced by the early Muslims i.e. the Prophet (s), his Ahl-ul-Bait (r), his Companions (r) and those who followed them.
Most of Barelviyat is a sect based on emotion and practices of the pagans instead of the Book and the Sunnah.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Dhulfiqar: *
Barelviyat is the most popular sect in Indo-Pak subcontinent but I don’t think it’s true for the rest of the world. Even in Indo-Pak with proper religious education people are rapidly returning to orthodox Islam as practiced by the early Muslims i.e. the Prophet (s), his Ahl-ul-Bait (r), his Companions (r) and those who followed them.
Most of Barelviyat is a sect based on emotion and practices of the pagans instead of the Book and the Sunnah.
[/QUOTE]
Bralvies are not orthodox, that is why they are popular in Indo-Pak sub-continent. They are the true representative of Indo-Pak Muslims. Unfortunatly, now Indo-Pak subcontinent is fastly hijacked by the orthodoxism. Indo-Pak Muslims never had been so much orthodox throughout the history. And this "orthodoxism" is, as you say, is the result of spread of "regressive" religious education. And it is due to this extream orthodoxism that I am here on this forum in order to oppose it with my extream arguments.