Questions that need answers (continued from Shah Jahan's thread)

When did the Sunni Sects Exist?

                           It is certain that there was nothing called "Sunni sects" in the
                           lifetime ofthe Holy Prophet (s.w.), not even after his demise. The
                           Sunni sects have emerged in the 3rd and 4th centuries (Hijri) as a
                           result of political and dogmatic differences. Some of those sects
                           have been abrogated andother were authorized.
                           We have here some questions in regard to this subject:
                          ** 1- Why were some of those sects authroized and other were
                           rejected?Are there any Quranic evidences and demonstrations, or
                           prophetic traditions that urge us to follow, for example, the Hanafi
                           or Maaliki sect?Weren't the founders of the rejected sects
                           mujtahids? If so, hasn't any mujtahis the right to disclose his own
                           opinion, like Abu Hanifa who practised ijtihad - which he remained
                           doing so till the end of his life?

                          ** 2- Were the four famous sects existing in the time of the caliphs?
                           Were the caliphs performing their duties and judging people
                           according to their own opinions?
                           We can notice the great difference between the Sunnis in the time
                           of the Umayyad, Abbasid, and the Ottoman dynasties, and
                           between the Sunnis in present time, especially in regard to issues
                           of fiqh and beliefs.

                          ** 3- Can we trust those traditions fabricated by the oppressive
                           Umayyad,Abbasid and Ottoman caliphs; traditions which were
                           fabricated in their own benefit and to keep them in power -
                           traditions which were cosider to be the exact words of the Holy
                           Prophet (s.w.)?

                         **  4- Can we regard all the savage behaviours of the partisans called
                           "the Army of Sahabah" or the Wahhabites as Islamic propagation,
                           and that they are guiding people to the true rules of Islam? Are the
                           Sunnis propagating the true sunnah of the Holy Prophet (s.w.), or in
                           fact, theyare propagating the sunnah of the Umayyads and the
                           Abbasids?

                           5- Were there any sects in the lifetime of the Holy Prophet (s.w.)?
                           Allhistorical records confirm that there were not any sects in that
                           time.Moreover, the term "Sunni" had generated in the time of
                           Mu`awiyah and later on.

                           6- Wasn't the belief of the determinists declaring that man must
                           obey hisruler, no matter whether he (i.e. the ruler) was just or
                           oppressor? Wasn't the opinion that "all the companions are just"
                           derived from the false traditions which Mu`awiyah and the
                           Umayyads had generated?

                           7- Is it correct to return to the old texts of a person who died
                           centuries ago, to derive new issues?

                           8- Why do the Sunnis return to persons who died 13 centuries ago
                           while they can consult contemporary scholars (faqihs) and eminent
                           `ulamawho have obtained high ranks not less than those who have
                           pasted?
                           Why isn't there any scholar (mujtahid) among the Sunnis who can
                           save them from disputes and answer their religious questions of
                           the day, while the Shi`ites have many scholars in every time and
                           place?
                           Is the present knowledge and science the same as the knowledge
                           and science of past times? Are the needs of our communities
                           today the sameas those which were existing 1,300 years ago?

                           9- Why don't the Sunnis follow the fatwa of the shaykh
                           Mahmoud Shaltoot, the dean al-Azhar who considered Shi`ism as
                           an authorized sect, as he says it depends on the intellectual and
                           fiqh bases? Isn't thata clear religious prejudice? Is not Shi`ism the
                           right sect which is basedon that which the Holy Prophet (s.w.) had
                           recommended? Wasn't the famous tradition (i.e., "I am leaving with
                           you two weighty things(Thaqalayn); if you adhered to them, you
                           won't be misguided at all. Theyare the Book of Allah and my
                           family") sufficient to follow the Shi`a sect?Have you any other
                           evidences to prove the correctness of the famous four sects?
                           Surely the answer will be "NO"! If you study the Shi`a books without
                           partisanship or prejudice, you will certainly not find any kind
                           of contradictions and you will notice that they are not forging lies
                           against anyone. However, we may find some Sunnis when they
                           want to investigate other sects and their beliefs, they depend only
                           on their own scholars' (shaykhs') speeches and opinions without
                           paying any attention to the ideas of the `ulama of the other sects. Is
                           it correct to follow such methodology to investigate another sects'
                           teachings?

Wonder if anybody has a valid answer? Dont babble. Only if you have a logical answer, then reply. Otherwise keep looking at the monitor

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Cool Guy (edited November 17, 2000).]

Any body?
**
Any chonkee dar aka shahzada saleem aka watcher aka nanga aka stunned?
**

No answer..huh? Well...the first point is very soliod here brother Shah Jahan about ijtehad. Masha-Allah!

[quote]
Originally posted by Cool Guy:
**
When did the Sunni Sects Exist?

                           It is certain that there was nothing called "Sunni sects" in the
                           lifetime ofthe Holy Prophet (s.w.), not even after his demise. The
                           Sunni sects have emerged in the 3rd and 4th centuries (Hijri) as a
                           result of political and dogmatic differences. Some of those sects
                           have been abrogated andother were authorized.
                           We have here some questions in regard to this subject:
                          ** 1- Why were some of those sects authroized and other were
                           rejected?Are there any Quranic evidences and demonstrations, or
                           prophetic traditions that urge us to follow, for example, the Hanafi
                           or Maaliki sect?Weren't the founders of the rejected sects
                           mujtahids? If so, hasn't any mujtahis the right to disclose his own
                           opinion, like Abu Hanifa who practised ijtihad - which he remained
                           doing so till the end of his life?

                          ** 2- Were the four famous sects existing in the time of the caliphs?
                           Were the caliphs performing their duties and judging people
                           according to their own opinions?
                           We can notice the great difference between the Sunnis in the time
                           of the Umayyad, Abbasid, and the Ottoman dynasties, and
                           between the Sunnis in present time, especially in regard to issues
                           of fiqh and beliefs.

                          ** 3- Can we trust those traditions fabricated by the oppressive
                           Umayyad,Abbasid and Ottoman caliphs; traditions which were
                           fabricated in their own benefit and to keep them in power -
                           traditions which were cosider to be the exact words of the Holy
                           Prophet (s.w.)?

                         **  **

[/quote]

Any body on atleast these three questions?
????????????????

Any body?Nobody…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif

Answer atleast question # 1. Whoever answers will get grace points

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Dear Uncle CoolGuy,
Asslamu Alikum, please find the answers to your questions as below:

CoolGuy Said:
QUOTE
“When did the Sunni Sects Exist?
It is certain that there was nothing called "Sunni sects" in the
lifetime ofthe Holy Prophet (s.w.), not even after his demise. The
Sunni sects have emerged in the 3rd and 4th centuries (Hijri) as a
result of political and dogmatic differences. Some of those sects
have been abrogated andother were authorized.” UNQUOTE

Reply
Sunni is not a sect, it is all the Muslims who follow the Quran and SUNNAH (Hadeeth +Tradition) of Prophet. During the lifetime of Prophet (PBUH) Islam was Quran (the Word of ALLAH) plus SUNNAH (hadeeth + Tradition), and it remained like that after his Demise. However the word “SECT” is defined as follow in various dictionaries:
1. A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice. 2. A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination.
3. A faction united by common interests or beliefs.

On basis of the above definition it is very clear that Sunni is not a Sect, but in-fact Shia is a Sect and it does confirm to all the definitions of sects.

  1. A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice. Read this definition again and conclude for yourself that “A group of people (Shia, or Shia tul Ali or party of Ali) forming a distinct unit within a larger group (Muslims or Muslims who along with Quran follow the Sunnah of Prophet PBUH) by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice (concept of Ahlul-Bayt away from main stream Islam).
  2. A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination Read this definition as well guess who is the sect (Shia) and who is the larger denomination (Main stream Islam, Sunni)
  3. A faction (Shia among larger Muslim community) united by common interests or beliefs (Shia Muslims).

After the political turmoil in the early history of Islam, a sect was separated away from the main stream Islam and Muslims of the day because they would call them selves Shia tul Ali or party of Ali. Lets assume for a moment that faction (Shia) among the main stream Muslims had correct view of Islam, then why not educate the main stream Muslims why separate as a faction from majority. After a splinter group (Shia) was formed within Islam with a different view of Islam, they could no longer be considered as part of the majority of Muslims, but they were still Muslims with a different outlook of Islam. So, there had to be a distinguishing factor in Islam, for this reason Majority of Muslims who were following the true Sunnah of the Prophet had to distinguish them selves from a faction of small Muslims who would call them self Shia. So, by any definition Sunni is not a Sect in Islam, it is the main stream Islam followed by a very large majority of Muslims, on the same token by all definitions Shia is a Sect and a Faction within a large majority of people who call them self Muslims.

Cool Guy Said:
QUOTE:
1.Why were some of those sects authroized and other were
rejected?Are there any Quranic evidences and demonstrations, or
prophetic traditions that urge us to follow, for example, the Hanafi
or Maaliki sect?Weren't the founders of the rejected sects
mujtahids? If so, hasn't any mujtahis the right to disclose his own
opinion, like Abu Hanifa who practised ijtihad - which he remained
doing so till the end of his life?
2. Were the four famous sects existing in the time of the caliphs?
Were the caliphs performing their duties and judging people
according to their own opinions?
We can notice the great difference between the Sunnis in the time
of the Umayyad, Abbasid, and the Ottoman dynasties, and
between the Sunnis in present time, especially in regard to issues
of fiqh and beliefs.
UNQUOTE

Reply: Like wise Hanafi, Maaliki etc, by any definition are not Sects in Islam, they are different “school of Thoughts” within Islam. Any one who commands English language can appreciate the difference between a SECT and SCHOOL OF THOUGHT”
As far as Ijtihad is concern, anyone can do Ijtihad and present his opinion along with the arguments to support it, but not everyone can implement his view by making it a law.
During the age of the Rightly Guided Khilafah, the Khalifa was not only the ruler but he was also a Mujtahid, having full capacity to do Ijtihad as well as the authority to implement it. This was a unique feature of AL-Khilafah Al-Rashidah that we cannot have in our times. But later, during the age of age of monarchy or mulukiyyah, especially during the reign of Banu Abbas, the situation changed. Now the rulers had the authority to implement, but they lacked the capacity to do Ijtihad which had by then become the specialization of the scholars of Islamic law, or fuqaha. In this connection, we find that two of our great scholars — Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik — were offered the post of Chief Justice but they both refused to accept it. Had they accepted the offer, their respective opinions and verdicts would have acquired the status of law. However, both of them considered this to be unacceptable and inappropriate.

CoolGuy said:
QUOTE
3- Can we trust those traditions fabricated by the oppressive
Umayyad,Abbasid and Ottoman caliphs; traditions which were
fabricated in their own benefit and to keep them in power -
traditions which were cosider to be the exact words of the Holy
Prophet (s.w.)?
4- Can we regard all the savage behaviours of the partisans called
"the Army of Sahabah" or the Wahhabites as Islamic propagation,
and that they are guiding people to the true rules of Islam? Are the
Sunnis propagating the true sunnah of the Holy Prophet (s.w.), or in
fact, theyare propagating the sunnah of the Umayyads and the
Abbasids?
5- Were there any sects in the lifetime of the Holy Prophet (s.w.)?
Allhistorical records confirm that there were not any sects in that
time.Moreover, the term "Sunni" had generated in the time of
Muawiyah and later on.
6- Wasn't the belief of the determinists declaring that man must
obey hisruler, no matter whether he (i.e. the ruler) was just or
oppressor? Wasn't the opinion that "all the companions are just"
derived from the false traditions which Mu
awiyah and the
Umayyads had generated?
UNQUOTE

Reply: First of all there has been no specific evidence of misuse of powers of the Khalifa in terms of DEEN. You and I were not there monitoring the corruption of the Khulafas so there for you will have a real hard time to be able to present any specific evidence of corruption in DEEN by these Khalifas, you will not have any thing more then empty rhetoric and assumptions. In any case most monarchial Khalifa’s more or less exercised political power and the Islamic Law making was left to the Ulema of the DEEN. A very good example of dichotomy of political authority and the ability to do Ijtihad can be cited from the age of the Mughal rule in India. It is well known that Aurangzeb Alamagir had constituted a committee of the scholars of fiqh who compiled their verdicts according to the Hanafi fiqh. This compilation is called Fatawa-e-Alamgiri, after the name of the King who assigned to these verdicts the force of law. This arrangement was needed because the King lacked the ability to do Ijtihad, and the Ulama had no authority to implement their verdicts.

During the life time of Prophet (PBUH) any one who was following the Sunnah of Prophet PBUH) could have easily been called a Sunni, but there was no concept of Shia tul Ali or party of Ali (RA) at that time. If any one thinks other wise, then they should present a Daleel –e-Roshan.

Lets say for the sake of the arguments that Sunni’s are not propagating the true essence of the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH), what difference will it make to any one on individual level, in individual capacity any one is free to follow in his own understanding, only when this propagation leads to becoming a Islamic law, now we have a problem, it is going to affect every body, because if the law is not obeyed there could be a punishment for it. In such a case Muslims are advised to exercise their rights according to the Word of Allah (SWT) in Surah Al-Nisa Verse 59

“O You who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those who are in authority from amongst you. If you differ in anything, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.”

By using the imperative ati‘u (obey!) in connection with Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAW) but not with ulul amr, Almighty Allah (SWT) has indicated that the Holy Qur’an and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) are absolute and permanent sources of law, whereas obedience to the rulers is not absolute but must be limited by the injunctions of Qur’an and Sunnah. This ayah goes on to explain that if there is a disagreement as to whether or not the rulers are acting within the limits of the Shari‘ah, the matter must be referred back to the absolute sources of law, Qur’an and Sunnah. Notice when there is a problem Allah (SWT) asks us to refer to HU and HU’s Messanger and not Ahlul-Bayt.

The same verse also answer your question about how much the ruler should be obeyed, this has been the case all along the history of Islam.

CoolGuy Said:
QUOTE:
7- Is it correct to return to the old texts of a person who died
centuries ago, to derive new issues?
8- Why do the Sunnis return to persons who died 13 centuries ago
while they can consult contemporary scholars (faqihs) and eminent
ulamawho have obtained high ranks not less than those who have
pasted?
Why isn't there any scholar (mujtahid) among the Sunnis who can
save them from disputes and answer their religious questions of
the day, while the Shi
ites have many scholars in every time and
place?
Is the present knowledge and science the same as the knowledge
and science of past times? Are the needs of our communities
today the sameas those which were existing 1,300 years ago?
9- Why don't the Sunnis follow the fatwa of the shaykh
Mahmoud Shaltoot, the dean al-Azhar who considered Shiism as
an authorized sect, as he says it depends on the intellectual and
fiqh bases? Isn't thata clear religious prejudice? Is not Shi
ism the
right sect which is basedon that which the Holy Prophet (s.w.) had
recommended? Wasn't the famous tradition (i.e., "I am leaving with
you two weighty things(Thaqalayn); if you adhered to them, you
won't be misguided at all. Theyare the Book of Allah and my
family") sufficient to follow the Shia sect?Have you any other
evidences to prove the correctness of the famous four sects?
Surely the answer will be "NO"! If you study the Shi
a books without
partisanship or prejudice, you will certainly not find any kind
of contradictions and you will notice that they are not forging lies
against anyone. However, we may find some Sunnis when they
want to investigate other sects and their beliefs, they depend only
on their own scholars' (shaykhs') speeches and opinions without
paying any attention to the ideas of the `ulama of the other sects. Is
it correct to follow such methodology to investigate another sects'
teachings?
UNQUOTE

Reply: There is nothing wrong with referring to the AUTHENTIC old text (Hadeeth + Tradition of Prophet PBUH) to seek guidance to solve new issues or for that matter any issues.

Who said that Sunnis return to persons who died 13 centuries ago. We only refer to companions of Prophet (PBUH) to extract the Hadeeth + Tradition of Prophet PBUH. We do have many many contemporary scholars more then shia’s example Mawlana Sayyid Abul A'la Mawdudi, He was the man who lit the torch of Islamic renaissance. He was the man who kept the lamp burning during the dark hours of Muslim Ummah's inaction and lethargy. He lived and died for Islam. He was a humble servent of ALLAH (SWT). We have countless Mawlana Mawdudi’s. The same scholars perform Ijtihad among Muslims, you are simply unaware of the facts. We may have more view points then Shia, but it is because we follow main stream Islam and are a very large community compared against Shia community. If Shia thinks they have many scholars that are doing Ijtihad among them then it is good for them.

The fatwa of Shaikh Mahmoud Shaltoot have to be read before any comments can be put forward, kindly post the Fatwa for reading and evaluation.

Oh ALLAH (SWT), Please forgive this humble servant of yours if this servant has made any mistakes in the above text. For all Ilim belong to ALLAH (SWT) and ALLAH knows best and ALLAH knows it all.

[This message has been edited by Musalman (edited November 17, 2000).]

Musalmaan, cool-gay doesn't even worth a reply...


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*


----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

you never answered a single question musalman. Where is the answer? All you did was just babble without making any sesnse.

**
Here is the point:
If abu hanifa or malik or any of those can do "ijtehad" during that time, why cant somebody do ijtehad later or during the present time?
Where is it mentioned in "quran" that sunni sect is right? Where? Since you guys always yell "Quran only", thats why I am asking you to prove the authenticity of sunni sect from Quran? Which you can never do. Its nowhere mentioned in "Quran"!
**

[This message has been edited by Cool Guy (edited November 19, 2000).]

Anybody?

Dear brother CoolGuy Asslamu Alikum,

Read carefully the answers to your questions:
CoolGuy said:
QUOTE
If abu hanifa or malik or any of those can do "ijtehad" during that time, why cant somebody do ijtehad later or during the present time?
UNQUOTE

It is amazing you did not find the answer to this question, here is it one more time.

Reply
“Firstly, as far as the right to do Ijtihad is concerned, it should be understood that no restriction could be placed in this regard. Every Muslim, who claims that he has the necessary capacity and skill, can do Ijtihad and express his opinions. Secondly, even though no one can be barred from doing Ijtihad, there is a definite standard of knowledge and expertise that is required for properly carrying out this great endeavor. For the purpose of Ijtihad, the scholar must be well-versed in the traditional Islamic sciences like Arabic language, tafseer, hadith, fiqh, and so on, and he must also be familiar with modern social thought and the problems and issues of the contemporary world. Thirdly, the real issue with respect to Ijtihad concerns the implementing authority. Anyone can do Ijtihad and present his opinion along with the arguments to support it, but not everyone can implement his view by making it a law.”

So who said there is any restriction to do Ijtehad in present times. It proves that your question is based on lack of knowledge and ignorance.

CoolGuy said:
QUOTE
Where is it mentioned in "quran" that sunni sect is right? Where? Since you guys always yell "Quran only", thats why I am asking you to prove the authenticity of sunni sect from Quran? Which you can never do. Its nowhere mentioned in "Quran"!
UNQUOTE

It seems like you do not even understand the correct meaning of the word “SECT”, which shows the lack of comprehension and appreciation of English language on your part; below you will find the real meaning of the word “SECT” as described in various dictionaries:

Sunnah is defined as:
All the traditions and practices of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)that are recorded not only in such books as Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, but also in living people to whom these traditions and practices have been transmitted, from person to person, from then until now.Although the Sunnah has come to refer almost exclusively to the practice of the Messenger (PBUH) of Allah, it also comprises the customs of the first generation of Muslims in Madina. They learned their Islam directly from the Prophet (PBUH), not from books, and transmitted what they had learned to the next generation. The Sunnah is a complete behaviourial science.

So any one who follow the Prophet (PBUH) tradition can also be referred to as being a SUNNI. A Muslim is a person who follows ISLAM and SUNNAH is an integral part of ISLAM thus following Prophet’s (PBUH) SUNNAH automatically becomes part of being a MUSLIM. The conclusion being is there can be no Muslim who does not follow the true SUNNAH of our beloved Messenger (PBUH).

Please refer to Quran your self and find out how many times ALLAH (SWT) has ordered Muslims to follow SUNNAH of our Prophet (PBUH), following is just one example:

“O You who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those who are in authority from amongst you. If you differ in anything, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.” (AL-NISA-59)
By using the imperative ati‘u (obey!) in connection with Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAW) but not with ulul amr, Almighty Allah (SWT) has indicated that the Holy Qur’an and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) are absolute and permanent sources of law, whereas obedience to the rulers is not absolute but must be limited by the injunctions of Qur’an and Sunnah. This ayah goes on to explain that if there is a disagreement as to whether or not the rulers are acting within the limits of the Shari‘ah, the matter must be referred back to the absolute sources of law, Qur’an and Sunnah.

Thus the absolute source of LAW is QURAN and SUNNAH of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Notice when there is a problem Allah (SWT) asks us to refer to HU and HU’s Messenger and not Ahlul-Bayt.

Furthermore, Sunni is not a sect, it is all the Muslims who follow the Quran and SUNNAH (Hadeeth +Tradition) of Prophet. During the lifetime of Prophet (PBUH) Islam was Quran (the Word of ALLAH) plus SUNNAH (hadeeth + Tradition), and it remained like that after his Demise. However the word “SECT” is defined as follow in various dictionaries:
1. A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice. 2. A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination.
3. A faction united by common interests or beliefs.
On basis of the above definition it is very clear that Sunni is not a Sect, but in-fact Shia is a Sect and it does confirm to all the definitions of sects.
1. A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.
Read this definition again and conclude for yourself that “A group of people (Shia, or Shia tul Ali or party of Ali) forming a distinct unit within a larger group (Muslims or Muslims who along with Quran follow the Sunnah of Prophet PBUH) by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice (concept of Ahlul-Bayt away from main stream Islam).
2. A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination
Read this definition as well guess who is the sect (Shia) and who is the larger denomination (Main stream Islam, Sunni)
3. A faction (Shia among larger Muslim community) united by common interests or beliefs (Shia Muslims).

Also, your attitude is very arrogant comparing the level of knowledge you posses: Remember ALLAH (SWT) likes humility and not arrogance in his slaves: Also remember the words of ALLAH (SWT): "Invite all to the way of thy lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious..."(Holy Quran 16:125)

Either you are trying to preach the truth or you are doing something else, in case you are trying to preach the truth then follow what ALLAH (SWT) has commanded, and if your intention is something else then no body has to pay any heed to your arguments. Following are the proofs of arrogance in your attitude and pride that you carry with yourself:
COOL GUY SAID:
QUOTE
Wonder if anybody has a valid answer? Dont babble. Only if you have a logical answer, then reply. Otherwise keep looking at the monitor .

Any body?

Any chonkee dar aka shahzada saleem aka watcher aka nanga aka stunned?

Any body?Nobody...

Answer atleast question # 1. Whoever answers will get grace points

you never answered a single question musalman. Where is the answer? All you did was just babble without making any sesnse.
UNQUOTE

Here is an expression for all of us to ponder upon:

Ignorant is he who does not know; stupid is he who does not know that he does not know; idiot is he who does not understand that he does not understand.

Our goal as Muslims should be to seek the true word and message of ALLAH(SWT) and not try to put each other down.

[This message has been edited by Musalman (edited November 20, 2000).]

Asslamu Alikum CoolGuy, I hope you have found the answers to your questions.

[quote]
Originally posted by Cool Guy:
*you never answered a single question musalman. Where is the answer? All you did was just babble without making any sesnse.
*

[/quote]

no answer? i can't believe you posted that. Musalman, i'm sure, spent like an hour typing this stuff, and you're saying he didn't answer..

i think someone needs to spoon feed these answers to you..

When did the Sunni Sects Exist?

                           It is certain that there was nothing called "Sunni sects" in the
                           lifetime ofthe Holy Prophet (s.w.), not even after his demise. The
                           Sunni sects have emerged in the 3rd and 4th centuries (Hijri) as a
                           result of political and dogmatic differences. Some of those sects
                           have been abrogated andother were authorized.
                           We have here some questions in regard to this subject:
                          ** 1- Why were some of those sects authroized and other were
                           rejected?Are there any Quranic evidences and demonstrations, or
                           prophetic traditions that urge us to follow, for example, the Hanafi
                           or Maaliki sect?Weren't the founders of the rejected sects
                           mujtahids? If so, hasn't any mujtahis the right to disclose his own
                           opinion, like Abu Hanifa who practised ijtihad - which he remained
                           doing so till the end of his life?

                          ** 2- Were the four famous sects existing in the time of the caliphs?
                           Were the caliphs performing their duties and judging people
                           according to their own opinions?
                           We can notice the great difference between the Sunnis in the time
                           of the Umayyad, Abbasid, and the Ottoman dynasties, and
                           between the Sunnis in present time, especially in regard to issues
                           of fiqh and beliefs.

                          ** 3- Can we trust those traditions fabricated by the oppressive
                           Umayyad,Abbasid and Ottoman caliphs; traditions which were
                           fabricated in their own benefit and to keep them in power -
                           traditions which were cosider to be the exact words of the Holy
                           Prophet (s.w.)?

                         **

Read above!

i did kiddo, there is nothing there. You never answered any question at all. I'd recommend, you go and talk to your Moulvis before debating, so that you atleast have a satisfactory answer.

Read it again and pay attention!

i did kiddo. here is my question again if you are blind (or blind inside from soul):
When did the Sunni Sects Exist?

                           It is certain that there was nothing called "Sunni sects" in the
                           lifetime ofthe Holy Prophet (s.w.), not even after his demise. The
                           Sunni sects have emerged in the 3rd and 4th centuries (Hijri) as a
                           result of political and dogmatic differences. Some of those sects
                           have been abrogated andother were authorized.
                           We have here some questions in regard to this subject:
                          ** 1- Why were some of those sects authroized and other were
                           rejected?Are there any Quranic evidences and demonstrations, or
                           prophetic traditions that urge us to follow, for example, the Hanafi
                           or Maaliki sect?Weren't the founders of the rejected sects
                           mujtahids? If so, hasn't any mujtahis the right to disclose his own
                           opinion, like Abu Hanifa who practised ijtihad - which he remained
                           doing so till the end of his life?

                          **

Sunni is not a SECT and it is proven above! Your questions are fundamentally flawed. Further more you need to make a trip to your Imam and learn how to ask questions or perhaps you can simply pick up a book "ASKING QUESTIONS FOR DUMMIES" OH and don't forget the Latest Edition.

[This message has been edited by Musalman (edited November 21, 2000).]