Questions regarding Trinity...

The trinity is divided into three parts.

  1. God

  2. Jesus :as: who is also god (I don’t know if this should be written with a capital G or not)

  3. Holy Spirit

My questions are:

If God is in heaven, He is one. - One God.

Then if Jesus :as: is also god, that makes two gods.

Then there is this entity called the Holy Spirit.

Questions:

Aren’t Christians polytheists for believing in two gods?

Doesn’t the Bible address God as one and singular?

Since everything is created by God, hence God created Jesus, why did God have a need to create another god in the form of His son?

Does Jesus :as: as a god have the same powers as the one God?

So as a Christian, wouldn’t it be enough to believe in the one true God without believing in the second?

What purpose does Jesus :as: serve as a second god when there is one Omnipotent God already?

What is the Holy Spirit?

Thanks in advance…

On the TRINITY...

The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:

There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever (P. G., X, 986).

Sound earily familiar?

On the HOLY GHOST

In the Nicaeno-Constantinopolitan Creed the Holy Spirit is termed the Giver of life (zoopoios). In the West we more naturally speak of grace as the life of the soul. But to the Greeks it was the Spirit through whose personal presence we live.

Just as God gave natural life to Adam by breathing into his inanimate frame the breath of life, so did Christ give spiritual life to us when He bestowed on us the gift of the Holy Ghost.

From the catholic encylopedia ......

condensed by AAG.

Re: Questions regarding Trinity…

I will try and correct by changing some of your words:

The trinity is divided into three parts.

  1. Father
  2. Jesus
  3. Holy Spirit

I will explain by quoting from the Bible something that can only be explained by the Tri-une concept. If you can explain the sentences/highlighted parts (only three of many more) without the Tri-une God concept, please do so:

”And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son” – Zech.12v10

Then the Lord rained down burning sulphur on Sodom and Gomorrah – from the Lord out of the heavens – Gen.19v24

”Therefor go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit – Matt.28v19

  1. Christians only believe in one God Almighty although manifested in three ways (monotheists)
  2. The Bible address God in the singular and plural form. The reason why Christians developed the Tri-une concept is to explain this phenomenon.
  3. If God took a part of Him and made it in a more humanlike form but it is still part of God, does that mean “created” another god?
  4. Jesus’ Godlike qualities while on earth were curtailed otherwise everyone will say it was easy for him to live a sinless life and do the things he did. He now has all his Godlike qualities back – as revealed by the Book of Revelation.
  5. Christians only believe in one true God – manifested in three distinct parts same as Lajawab is made up of body, soul, and spirit.
  6. Jesus serve as one part of One God (which is manifested in three distinct parts)
  7. The Holy Spirit is the third part of God Almighty and corresponds to your spirit.

Mr. The Old man,

You wrote
[QUOTE]

  1. If God took a part of Him and made it in a more humanlike form but it is still part of God, does that mean “created” another god? [/QUOTE]

Human beings are not on this earth from eternity. Actually no matter was there either. Only the God is here from eternity and would remain to eternity. So every human you see around you is created by the God and your theory of being a God can also be applied to them.

Explaining the concept of Trinity is one of the hardest dilemmas for the Christians. After all verbal possibilities of trying to explain the Concept of Trinity the best they can come up with is that it a leap of faith. And that Trinity is a Mystery to test the faith of Man.

The following episode from St. Augustine’s shows the impossibility of ever being able to explain the Concept of Trinity rationally.

http://www.eclecticchurch.org/1_Seeking_the_light.htm

*“There is a story about Augustine walking on a beach trying to figure out the Trinity. As he pondered this deep mystery, he encounters a boy on the beach who is taking water from the sea in a small seashell and depositing it in a small hole that he dug in the sand. Augustine approaches the boy and asks him what he is doing.

The boy tells Augustine that he is going to take all the seawater and put it in the hole. Augustine was amused and laughed at the boy: telling him, that the whole idea is absurd - that such an attempt is foolishness. The boy responds by telling Augustine that it is easier for him to empty the ocean into the sand hole using the seashell; than, it would be for Augustine to rationalize or intellectualize the Trinity.”*

Others try to ‘explain’ the Trinity using the ‘example’ of an egg, a peach and water! www.mts.net/~acts1711/Explaining_the_Trinity.htm

*“Logical Analogies

There are things in life that are triune in nature but one. For example: An egg is one but with three distinctions. You have the yoke, the white, and the shell, but all three composite the one egg. Another example: A piece of fruit such as the peach has three components. A peach has the outer layer (the skin), the inner layer (the juicy stuff known as the meat), and the core. All three components composite the one peach.

Other things that we have in our everyday lives that are triune is water. Water is one substance but can be liquid, gas, and solid. The following quote is from the late Dr. Walter Martin: “It is a well-known fact of chemistry that plain water, when placed in a vacuum under 230 millimeters of gas pressure and at a temperature of 0 degrees Centigrade, solidifies into ice at the bottom of the container, remains liquid in the center and vaporizes at the top! At a given instant the same water is both solid, liquid and gas, yet all three are manifestations of the same basic substance or nature: H2O - hydrogen: two parts; oxygen: one. If one of the simplest of all created substances can be three in manifested form and yet remain one in nature, then the Creator of that substance can surely be Father, Son and Holy Spirit - three Persons and one Nature - without any violation of logic or reason whatever if He so wills.”

Conclusion

If an egg, a peach, and water can have three distinct things and all be one at the same time, than the Almighty should have no problem. The word Trinity is way of explaining the belief in one God revealed through three distinct persons. Some people get all hung up on the issue of the Bible teaching there is only one God. No where does the Bible state God is only one person, but it does say God is one in Deuteronomy 6:4. The word for one there is the Hebrew word Echad, which means a composite unity. For examples of this consider Genesis 1:5, Genesis 2:24, Ezra 2:64, Ezekiel 37:17 where the same Hebrew word Echad is used and means one in unity, not in number! The Bible teaches there is one Church but many members and there is no problems with understanding this, yet when it comes to God some seem to have problems.” *

The Catholic Encyclopedia ‘somehow’ ‘admits’ that Trinity is beyond explanation. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Trinity

  • “THE TRINITY AS A MYSTERY

The Vatican Council has explained the meaning to be attributed to the term mystery in theology. It lays down that a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from Divine Revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains “hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness” (Const., “De fide. cath.”, iv). In other words, our understanding of it remains only partial, even after we have accepted it as part of the Divine messege. Through analogies and types we can form a representative concept expressive of what is revealed, but we cannot attain that fuller knowledge which supposes that the various elements of the concept are clearly grasped and their reciprocal compatibility manifest.”*

There is a nice article from Islamic perspective on the Concept of Trinity.

Who Invented the Trinity? - http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/otherreligions/trinity.html

“The three monotheistic religions - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - all purport to share one fundamental concept: belief in God as the Supreme Being, the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. Known as Tawhid in Islam, this concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a Biblical passage known as the “Shema” or the Jewish creed of faith: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” (Deuteronomy 6:4)
It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when he said: “…The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord.” (Mark 12:29)
Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again: “And your God is One God: There is no God but He, …” (The Qur’an 2:163)

Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and without the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - in one divine being.

If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter:
“…we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity… for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one… they are not three gods, but one God… the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal… he therefore that will be save must thus think of the Trinity…” (excerpts from the Athanasian Creed)
Let’s put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father + one person, God the Son + one person, God the Holy Ghost = one person, God the What? Is this English or is this gibberish?

**It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it. **

Trinity in the Bible

References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.
In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. While the “Great Commission” does make mention of the three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase “…baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text - that is, not the actual words of Jesus - as can be seen by two factors:

  1. Baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and
  2. The “Great Commission” found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost - see Mark 16:15.

The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of I John 5:7, Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase “…there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” is definitely a “later addition” to Biblical test, and it is not found in any of today’s versions of the Bible.

It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings was not an idea put forth by Jesus or any other prophet of God. This doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely man-made in origin.

The Doctrine Takes Shape

While Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true founder of Christianity, did formulate many of its doctrines, that of the Trinity was not among them. He did, however, lay the groundwork for such when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a “divine Son.” After all, a Son does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God’s revelations to man? In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church people who put the matter together.

Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word “Trinity” when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.

A Formal Doctrine is Drawn Up

When controversy over the matter of the Trinity blew up in 318 between two church men from Alexandria - Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop - Emperor Constantine stepped into the fray.
Although Christian dogma was a complete mystery to him, he did realize that a unified church was necessary for a strong kingdom. When negotiation failed to settle the dispute, Constantine called for the first ecumenical council in Church history in order to settle the matter once and for all.

Six weeks after the 300 bishops first gathered at Nicea in 325, the doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out. The God of the Christians was now seen as having three essences, or natures, in the form of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

continued …

The Church Puts Its Foot Down

The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on the part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man named Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed was being signed; "Arianism" became a catch-word from that time onward for anyone who did not hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.

It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.

Debate Continues

Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even today.

The majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of their faith, can offer nothing more than "I believe it because I was told to do so." It is explained away as "mystery" - yet the Bible says in I Corinthians 14:33 that "... God is not the author of confusion..."

The Unitarian denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in saying that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result, mainstream Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has refused their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that Christians will someday return to the preachings of Jesus: "...Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8)

Islam and the Matter of the Trinity

While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam.

"They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One God." (Qur'an 5:73) It is worth noting that the Arabic language Bible uses the name "Allah" as the name of God.
Suzanne Haneef, in her book WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISLAM AND MUSLIMS (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says, "But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp. 183-184)

Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three separate entities - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.

Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity - God being Three-in-One - is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.
This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn, accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out that the Qur'an sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church since 431 when she was given the title "Mother of God" by the Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verse in the Qur'an (5:116) most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the designation of Mary by the Qur'an as a "member" of the Trinity, is simply not true.

While the Qur'an does condemn both trinitarianism (the Qur'an 4:17) and the worship of Jesus and his mother Mary (the Qur'an 5:116), nowhere does it identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position of the Qur'an is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against the concept of One God.

In conclusion, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of divine beings has no place in monotheism. In the Qur'an, God's Final Revelations to mankind, we find His stand quite clearly stated in a number of eloquent passages:
"...your God is One God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner." (Qur'an 18:110)

"...take not, with God, another object of worship, lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected." (Qur'an 17:39)
...Because, as God tells us over and over again in a Message that is echoed throughout All His Revealed Scriptures:
"...I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore, serve Me (and no other)..." (Qur'an 21:92)

  • Aisha Brown"

To conclude I would say that for the Muslims the Concept of Trinity “is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma”.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
**The Church Puts Its Foot Down
*

The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on the part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man named Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed was being signed; "Arianism" became a catch-word from that time onward for anyone who did not hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.

It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.

Debate Continues

Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even today.

The majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of their faith, can offer nothing more than "I believe it because I was told to do so." It is explained away as "mystery" - yet the Bible says in I Corinthians 14:33 that "... God is not the author of confusion..."

The Unitarian denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in saying that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result, mainstream Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has refused their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that Christians will someday return to the preachings of Jesus: "...Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8)

Islam and the Matter of the Trinity

While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam.

"They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One God." (Qur'an 5:73) It is worth noting that the Arabic language Bible uses the name "Allah" as the name of God.
Suzanne Haneef, in her book WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISLAM AND MUSLIMS (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says, "But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp. 183-184)

Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three separate entities - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.

Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity - God being Three-in-One - is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.
This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn, accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out that the Qur'an sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church since 431 when she was given the title "Mother of God" by the Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verse in the Qur'an (5:116) most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the designation of Mary by the Qur'an as a "member" of the Trinity, is simply not true.

While the Qur'an does condemn both trinitarianism (the Qur'an 4:17) and the worship of Jesus and his mother Mary (the Qur'an 5:116), nowhere does it identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position of the Qur'an is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against the concept of One God.

In conclusion, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of divine beings has no place in monotheism. In the Qur'an, God's Final Revelations to mankind, we find His stand quite clearly stated in a number of eloquent passages:
"...your God is One God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner." (Qur'an 18:110)

"...take not, with God, another object of worship, lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected." (Qur'an 17:39)
...Because, as God tells us over and over again in a Message that is echoed throughout All His Revealed Scriptures:
"...I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore, serve Me (and no other)..." (Qur'an 21:92)

  • Aisha Brown"

To conclude I would say that for the Muslims the Concept of Trinity “is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma”.
[/QUOTE]

why this useless argument over # of gods . it does not matter whom you pray to.. why dont you prove only your paryers are answered.
did you go up and count the god/gods?

^^ We don't have any problem in counting gods as we believe only in one God.

To you I think everything or anything can be a god. What's the score? A Million plus?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
^^ We don't have any problem in counting gods as we **believe only in one God.
*

To you I think everything or anything can be a god. What's the score? A Million plus?
[/QUOTE]

Catholics don't believe in three gods.

Father

Son

Holy Spirit

are concidered as ONE.

I think dogma refers to personalities of God.

My concept is that God teaches like a father, forgives like a son, and with his breath sent his spirit into all of us.

I am quoting a bit from my earlier post about St. Augustine:

[QUOTE]
“The boy responds by telling Augustine that it is easier for him to empty the ocean into the sand hole using the seashell; than, it would be for Augustine to rationalize or intellectualize the Trinity.”
[/QUOTE]

Whatever you try; you can never explain the Concept of Trinity [ESPECIALLY TO MUSLIMS].

So you think that the Dogma refers to personalities of God?

Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the Throne, transcendent beyond all they ascribe unto Him." (21:22)

So you believe God has Split or Multi personalities? [Allah Forbid!]

Sorry I do not understand this. What you have written above shows THREE IDENTITIES AND NOT THREE PERSONALTIY TRAITS. [Father, Son & Holy Ghost].

When according to you the SON was on the Earth, the Father was in the Heaven and the Holy Ghost was in between. True?

Can you note that these three identities are SEPARATE from each other and are not in one place? They are not one identity but three separate indentities in three separate locations.

Why according to bible [Matthew 27:46 ] Jesus [the Son] cried out at the time of crucifixion; ** “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” ** Can you see that the son was crying out on the Earth and the father was in Heaven? Two different identities, one crying out to the other for help!

*Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani,”—which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” *

John 20:17 – Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to My Father: but go to My Brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto * **My Father, and YOUR FATHER; and to My God, and YOUR GOD.*

Note the above verse [John 20:17] Jesus the son is clearly stating that he is on the Earth while the father is in the Heaven. Two separate identities apart!

And note too, that he said: My Father, and YOUR FATHER & My God, and YOUR GOD.

He just has stated the Father in heaven is not exclusively his FATHER and as much his God as that of others.

My sincere advice to you is to heed St. Augustine’s experience and stop speculative thinking about God’s ‘separate personalities’. Especially when discussing it among the Muslims as they are Muwahids ( Strict Believers in Unity of God].

Your right.

I can't explain the trinity of God.

I can only explain the way I myself percieve the holy mystery of God.

Only can say my perception is that in God any possibility is possible.

My belief is that God is of many ways.

And he is of many ways because his children (us) are of many ways.

He is to us as we (us) are able to understand him to be.

The understanding of God differs with many peoples.

Yet God is.

As God is.

if Allah so chose, He could
transcend the laws of mathematics and make himself three equal
entities that are also one?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
if Allah so chose, He could
transcend the laws of mathematics and make himself three equal
entities that are also one?
[/QUOTE]

Yes. I think so.

Alpha and Omega.

To Moses? I am.

Isn't god the very breath of all life?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
I am quoting a bit from my earlier post about St. Augustine:

Whatever you try; you can never explain the Concept of Trinity
[/QUOTE]

Ibn Sadique, can you please give proof that Augustine said these words other than a site that clearly are anti-Trinity, and refuse to accept that Jesus is divine? (Ecclectic Church) One does find all types of stories and fables on the net.

The Old Man I got the similar from http://www.immaculateheart.com/webforum/_disc2/archives/0000007e.htm I think it is a Catholic Site. There is a slight variation that the following sentence has been added "The saint realized that he had been visited by an angel, and realized that he had reached the limits of his comprehension of the Mystery. "

The Nicene Creed

*WE BELIEVE in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.


…*

Above I have pasted [partially] the famous “The Nicene Creed” and reading that Jesus is “sitting at the right side of Father” gives one a distinct visualization of two identities sitting side by side occupying two separate spaces. Difficult to reconcile how ‘Three in one and one in three’ fit in.

The famous theologian St Augustine was walking along the beach one day and meditating on the complex truth. He observed a young boy running back and forth with a bucket in his hand. The boy would run to the ocean, fill his bucket with water, then run up the beach and pour the water into a little hole. Augustine asked the little boy, “What are you doing?” The boy replied, “I’m trying to put the ocean into this hole.” Augustine then realized that he had been trying to put an infinite God into his finite mind.

See http://www.trinityaustin.com/sermons/2002/5-26-02.html & http://www.crossroadspc.org/thebarrel/2001_06_10.html

I found the above two sites and all differ from your original site in that the boy did not make the connection with the Trinity. I believe it to be just a story without base.

I have no problem with the Nicene Creed.

[QUOTE]
I have no problem with the Nicene Creed.
[/QUOTE]

*The Old Man * Kindly try to to explain to me the following.

he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

The way I understand and visualize the above from Nicene Creed is two Independent [of each other] identities sitting side by side [Holy Ghost, being a ghost can't be visualised] and such a mental picture does not convey unity of God by any stretch of imagination!

According to the Bible God has more than one will... in the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus reportedly supplicated...

"My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will"

So the Jesus god has his own will, and the Father god has his own will. Two independent wills does not equate to One God. The will of the Jesus god wants the cup taken away, but he's prepared to give in to the will of the Father god. A distinct lack of unity and oneness.

I often ask the Christians,
"Why does God need a Son? Is God going to retire soon and His going to take over?"

They usually have no answer whatsoever.

So I then usually ask them,
"How can God or Son of God be tortured by mere humans?"

They usually have no proper answer.

Then I put another question to them,
"Why does God or Son of God need to suffer by being tortured for everyone's sin? When God can easily say "I forgive you".

Again, they don't know the answer.

And finally I have another question for them,
"If a man commits a sin, he has a sin, and is known as a sinner. If God's or Son of God's body was filled up with everyone's sins, doesn't it make Him a sinner? How can God be impure?"

By that time, they don't like to answer at all.

If anyone out there can explain it to me, i'd really really appreciate it.

Trinity

The concept of Trinity - 'The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost' was not unique to Christianity. The veneration of Mary was stimulated by parallels in Pagan religion.

The Egyptions of Pharaoh's time also believed in the Trinity consisting of Osiris, his wife Isis (Great Virgin/Mother of God) and their son Horus.

The cult of Isis even flourished in imperial Rome. Scholars believe that the worship of Artemis (Diana) was transferred to Mary. Ephesus, a city which belonged to Artemis until the end of Pagan era, was also associated with Mary from an early date. Many people connected Mary with Isis whose worship had spread throughout the empire in the Christian era. Isis became identified with other goddesses, including Artemis, and was the universal mother of later Pagan religion. The devotees of Isis, herself called 'the Great Virgin' and 'Mother of God', naturally ended to look to Mary for comfort. Some surviving images of Isis holding the child Horus are in a pose remarkably similar to that of some early Christian madonnas.

The Hindu Trinity comprised of Vishnu (the preserver), Shiva (the destroyer) and Brahma (soul and origin of the univrese). When Vasco Da Gama first reached South Asia, he mistook a Hidu temple for the Church of Christian heretics. He entered the temple and knelt in prayer before a statue of a mother holding a child - Devaki nursing Krishna.

The Persian Trinity consisted of Ormazd, Mithra and Ahriman.

The Trinity is also found in other Pagan religions of China, Peru and Mexico. The Mexican Trinity consisting of Yzona the Father, Bacab the son and Echvah the holy Ghost.

In Chaldea, the Trinity was Anu, Bel and Hoa or Sin, Samas and Bin.

The monastic way of life also originated in Pharaoh's Egypt in the early centuries, where some men adopted a solitary, wandering life as a recluses or hermits. The title of nun is also an Pharaonic Egyption word. Before the Cross was adopted as a Christian symbol, it was a kabalistic symbol. Even Crucifixion - allegedly a 'Roman' form of death has it's origins in Pharaonic Egypt.