Roman, congratulations on the little one, we do deserve a pic now (of her not you :p)
One thing I forgat, wait till the kid is over 1, I am not comfortable with the idea of putting a baby in day care or in care of other people as the parents. Let it enjoy the time with her parents, good to hear that you will wait another year before putting her in day care. I agree with Ahmadjee, that a child is much better off at a child care center as a babysitter, especially a desi one, who just watches TV all day. Kids even babies need to be kept busy and entertained, thats what they do at child care facilites. I personally have not face neglectance, thats why I mean that u need to visit the care center and see for yourself, rignt now its not important if they teach ABC or other stuff, but how they interact with the kids is the most important thing.
I am going to throw a question out there that might get me killed so please don't take it too personally i am just exploring my options for a future that is far away at this point.
I understand that for some families dual income is the only way they can pay mortgage/rent, car, savings etc.. but realistically, as a parent wouldn't you want to cherish your time with your baby even if it means that you end up losing $XX,000 per year ..
I mean the toddler years are the most innocent and amazing days of childs life.
thats wot i wantd to ask myself to everyone..........dont the In-laws and husbands recommend for the mothers to stay in and look after the kid until nursey or primary school?.......
my husband prefers if i dont work after a child and look after the household but i'd like to work as we can save nuf for the kids future and is/her little needs etc......
dont u desi ladies feel kids that are being put in day care etc arn't being brought up properly? as in the islamic manners and reciting soorahs etc...
^ just cus a child is going to childcare it doesnt mean they are not going to learn all the values you want to teach them or bring out in them..
my child is only 14 months.. we spend enough time with her after work and on weekends to show her how much we love her.. we teach her things.. just do watever possible she would like... and when she does get to the age of soorah's and namaz, we will definately try our best to teach her..
a parent's duty is quite hard.. and just cus a mother is at work, she's not neglecting her child... and my daughter has Mashallah become so independant (even more than before).. it's so good.
Ansoon, a lot of the milestones happen in the first year.. as in first tooth, crawling, walking, first words... so yeah, i do think the first year is a good one to take off and spend with ur child.. that was my choice. But after that, the child needs to interact with other people, to learn social skills... and that they learn a lot from being away from you... my daughter Mashallah has become so much friendlier and accepting of people.. before she would just cling onto me or hubby..
Money is not the only factor for mothers to return to work... its actually healthy for the family I believe... my hubby is a lot happier, I am.. and so is my child. Not to say my child isnt happy when im home... its just she gets to go out this way to nano's and spend time with her cousin :)
plus there are other options that are affordable outside of childcare if both parents are earning, like montessori. mum's a montessori teacher, and it is an amazing system of learning/teaching, and at $800 per month/per child in toronto, there is no way we could afford to have our (future iA) kid in it if i wasn't working too.
then again, even daycare in toronto is $800, so either way, i couldn't afford to stay home past the 1 year maternity leave.
kids that are being put in day care etc arn't being brought up properly? as in the islamic manners and reciting soorahs etc...<<<
Valid concern. Language may be an issue where the child going to day care might not pick up his parent's language as quickly/fluently as a child that stays home but as long as the parents make an effort, it doesn't become an issue in the long term. My daughter who is four knows Urdu better than my cousins who were raised here in the US and were home the first five years of their lives. She knows better than a couple that came here when they were 7~8 years old and have since forgotten or choose not to speak it. So it all depends on parents.
Most childcare facilities try to be secular but they do have Christmas, Easter stuff. As parents, you have to look at it from the perspective that you can't insulate your children for ever. As long as you have an Islamic culture at home, that's what they will identify with.
I mean the toddler years are the most innocent and amazing days of childs life.<<<
I totally agree. But you have to look at the bigger picture and weigh your pros and cons. If a mother has three kids three years apart and she stays home until the last one is in school, that's more than a dozen years she was out of the work force and while some professions might be kind to such absence, not all of them are. So you have to look at your finances, the kind of lives you want to live for yourself and for your children and then make a decision on your own.
A working family is not just about money although that comes first most of the time. People need to get over that concept by now. Look around you. You're not living in 1800's. Life in modern society has its own demands and challenges. A fuller life involves working and being more productive and sometimes successful career-wise. A happy family is one in which all members of the family are happy, not just dad or mom or child. A mother should not have to sacrifice her happiness for the rest of the family, and this should by no mean come at the expense of a child's well being. It's always about the balance among various trade-offs and not simple, clear-cut choices.
A mother with a professional degree and willingness to work to experience world outside and be productive or contributive to society outside the confinements of her house should not have to sacrifice her happiness or ambitions. If a dad can miss first word of a child while he's a work then sure mom can do the same. Because there is always going to be a second word. And your child's ability to speak should be the sheer joy you should be looking for--rest is all bonus.
My concerns about my child sending to daycare are totally different. I concern more about my daughter's being lonely and not able to play with other children in the absence of a facility like daycare than other way around. I want my daughter to grow up with all the healthy experiences a child can have. Have her more confidence and sociable. I even want her to toughen up growing up and be street smart. That means being around other kids and other people. I want her to have all those experiences, that other kids she'll be surrounded by, have. I thank God that religion has never been my thing so hopefully we won't have usual hangups in that regard either and she'll turn out to be an excellent atheist. So after a certain age I think it's best for child to go to daycare than to stay at home.
I understand that for some families stay at home mom arrangement works best and that's all cool. Not all women want to work and there is nothing wrong with that -- but what works for one family doesn't work for all families. As individuals, couples, and families our ambitions and inspirations are always different and it's naive to think that you're going to miss one thing by working or other by staying at home.
sadzzz,
to be honest with you I ask the desi nany question in regards to something different. I've been to sites where they list the child molesters and pedophiles in your area with photos. I was stumped to see so many of them living around the area and I don't live in a bad area at all. By looking at their faces you can never guess if the culprit is capable of such a heinous crime. Somehow I feel more comfortable with desi nany concept for the sheer reason. Somehow I feel that no matter how good or bad the desi nany will be, there are less chances of something that traumatizing as this. But having babysitter over has never been an appealing idea to me so it was kinda general question out of curiosity.
PS-
Thanks Sahar. Saadia, check your inbox. Now you owe me yours :p
ahmadjeebhaijaan, if religion was the sure way to be a good human being that all the hindus were the nicest people on earth. I say we really look into the eyes of the issue that has been staring us all along: reciting surah is a silly practice and a good religious education entails belief in God and doing good to other regardless of their nationalities, sect, race, and religion. Rest is b.s. Religion is a very simple thing and what makes is complicated is concept of prophets (laakhoN of those at that), imaams, and friggin' caliphates and god knows what else. I say it's about time we ditch them all and just focus on being good. Love is all you need. Ok?
roman, welcome back dude, and congrats. been ages sicne we connected. Pm me yer numero, would love to catch up.
our experience has been better with a day care than with a home based day care run by a desi lady,s he was very nice, very caring but there ws less structure, kids are doing well at their daycare, like it, its a safe and fun environment for them.
Roman, right.. some people dont understand and will assume that a female is working for the money!! well let me tell u all something, if I stay at home, the government will pay me 80% of the pay + child allowance that I am already getting, so I will not miss a single euro, but I perfere to work and get less as its part time and rather be constructive, enjoy my work, interact with people, other than moms at the playground and doctors visit/grocery - it was bad enough to say 18 months at home, I know it was necessary as the baby needed me, but it was hard not to work.
I say let them assume what they want, if their wish is to stay at home after having kids then let it be, it doesnt bother me, so why does it bother anyone if I am working.
Allah know, how much love my child gets from me and she loves the care of the care takers and other kids, sometimes I feel they are her bro/sis .. lol
Roman btw, you havent seen pics of mines, the recent ones are in my journal, some older ones too, for that u have to flip back a few pages.
No Roman Bhaijaan its not ok. Its like telling your child as long as you believe that education is good and try to study you will be an intellectual. It doesn't work that way. You have to work hard and try to better yourself every day and never be content with yourself. Just like reciting surah's is not enough, just having a belief in God isn't enough either.
ahmadjeebhaijaan, are you implying that all agnostic/atheists are bad bad people? I've known so many and to tell you the truth I've found them to be more humane and peaceful people than quran/bible thumping birgade--and they don't even believe in some kinda book or God to begin with!
Fact of the matter is that it's our own religious insecurity that we raise our children by handing them over a scripture. We fear that we'll go to hell if we don't do it. We fear that our children will be somehow turn out to be immoral if they don't believe in some book. That is absolutely rubbish. I agree that you should try to better yourself but that's where it should stop. I'm all in favor of giving religious education to the child too as long as the child is EXPOSED to ALL religions (ok, by that I don't mean 1001 religions out there). I believe you should tell your child about vishnu and guru nanuk too. Instill in them values to respect all religions EQUALLY. It is our jahalat and the jahalat of our parents, and their parents that we feel that somehow our religion has to be superior and we need to show to the world of it. It's not really a piss contest, basically.
Not believing in some prophet or believing in some doesn't make much difference either and you don't really have to pick quran to refer to some surah to decide what's good and what's not.
In my experience, which is to say the agnostic/atheists people I know, are ok, mediocre at best when it comes to spiritual things. They aren't bad but they aren't great either.
They are like that person who looks around himself and see fat people and thinks he is healthy. He has never experienced a cardio class to realize what he is missing. What his body's true potential is.
I want to teach my children my values, which include remembering prayers, respect for other religions , sticking to the truth and having an open mind. When they grow older, they will have plenty of time and opportunities to read about vishnu and valentine.
Similarly, I want to teach them that being educated is a good thing. This doesn't mean that uneducated people are bad or evil.
ahmadjeebhaijaan, that makes me curious. Do carry a compass to gauge people's spirituality. :D I don't think anyone is ever a born atheist or agnostic. Most of the time it's their introspection and questioning their own belief that leads to "finding the truth". And that's my whole point. what's your truth may not be someone else's truth when it comes to spirituality. You don't have to be fat and then go to cardio class to find potential of your body. You can do just that by adapting more healthy activity like hiking -- and you should know that :D Whether you're religious or atheist you come to be that by following certain conviction. All I'm saying is that children should be left alone to follow their own conviction. You don't have to agree to that philosophy, obviously, but I've yet to see a fit-it-all formula that will guarantee that if I provide religious education to my child he/she will end up being a good moral person.
Look, the point of this all was not to interject as to what YOU as our beloved ahamadbhaijaan should teach his kids. It was more general and broad. And it was that that there is just not one way to grab the nose. You can do many different ways and still end up grabbing nose. The point of all the religions in the world is grabbing the nose at the end of it all and all I'm saying is that you should grab the nose the way it makes most sense to you and in general you should encourage your children to find their own ways to grab the nose. And I don't think God minds which way you followed to grab the nose. Now you can come and say all that God wants us to grab the nose in a certain way and that's why there is quran and bible but it is your conviction that quran and bible tell the truth which may not be the conviction of the others who are grabbing nose just fine by bypassing all this and all that.
Roman Bhaijaan, I agree with you that parents should have every right to bring up their children the way they want to. But I doubt any child comes up to be what their parents want them to be. We as humans are too independent to be molded in one way or another.
That being said as a parent it is very innate to teach my child what I consider is good and move them away from what I consider is bad. This is not to say what I consider good is divine and all else is evil. But it's the best I know and I want the best for my daughter! I am very sure that you will be upset if your daughter (khuda na khwasta) grows up to become a jihadist. I know I will be and no matter how she tries to spin it, I will consider it picking the nose rather than grabbing it.
That being said as a parent it is very innate to teach my child what I consider is good and move them away from what I consider is bad.
ahmadjeebhaijaan, exactly. But if you step aside and think about it most of the time what we were handed over was not morality but rather "tribal instincts". i.e. Group association. Be it the sect, caste, race, nationality, ethnicity, or religion. It's very intuitive to me too to teach my kid what I think is good but for that to happen I must first challenge what I know to be good, unlike my ancestors who blindly believed everything they heard at mullah's aggregation, to pass the litmus test and that is the responsibility as a parent I must undertake.