Questions after raid pair release

These were the home grown Muslim terrorists who were gong to carry out a chemical attack in UK. They had been under observation for a long period. The police moved in last week because the threat was imminent. They shot one guy. Even though nothing was found at their property after a thorough search the police were adamant that this was the tip of the iceberg. One week later the suspects have been released without charge the iceberg has suddenly melted and the intelligence operation has turned out to be as lame and pathetic as the WMD proofs. Is there no end to the incompetence and stupidity of the British intelligence service. Will heads roll?? Of course not. It is on par for these spy agencies.

**Questions after raid pair release **](BBC NEWS | UK | Questions over London terror raid

)

Questions are being asked about the way police and intelligence services handled an anti-terror raid in east London after the release of two men.
Brothers Abul Koyair, 20, and Mohammed Abdul Kahar, 23, who was shot in the raid, were freed without charge on Friday evening.
Both men had denied allegations of involvement in terrorism.
Met Police Authority member Murad Qureshi said mistakes were made, but police have defended the raid.
Officers are continuing their search for chemical materials elsewhere after finding nothing at the house in Lansdown Road, Forest Gate, since the raid on 2 June.
‘Learn from mistakes’
The men, who had been held under the Terrorism Act 2000 and questioned on suspicion of terrorism involvement, were released shortly before 2030 BST on Friday.
Mr Qureshi, speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, said: “I think that there were a series of mistakes, which I think that the Met should learn from and they cover everything from the collecting of intelligence and how you collaborate that to the nature of the surveillance of suspects, through to how the suspects are actually dealt with.”
Of particular concern, he said was “how we find ourselves with one of the brothers shot and quite a lot of the slander, quite honestly, which has been out in the press”.
A Scotland Yard spokesman said after the release, that intelligence received by police “continues to be developed” and that the Met Police “will continue to exhaust all lines of inquiry”.

Opinion divided as two freed](BBC NEWS | UK | Opinion divided as brothers freed)

Announcing the men’s release the spokesman said: "We appreciate the police operation has caused inconvenience and disruption to the occupants of the house.
"We will be contacting the owners to make appropriate arrangements for the property to be handed back to them.
“We will also be undertaking appropriate restoration work in consultation with the owners.”
‘Family ecstatic’
Assad Rehman, who chairs the Newham monitoring project, welcomed the release of the two brothers, but said questions about the raid remained.
"We’re very happy and the family are very very ecstatic that they have been vindicated and of course also the community has been vindicated.
“The concerns and the questions that we have had raised about the nature of the raid, the intelligence behind the raid and obviously the fact that the raid had impacted so negatively … and once again we’ve seen none of those questions being answered.”
Muslim Council of Britain secretary general Mohammed Abdul Bari told the BBC: "The community was very confused, they were perturbed and the young people some of them were angry.
"But it all depends on how the police act now. There is an issue of trust. The police have to work with the community to build this trust once again.
“It all goes back to the intelligence, and the police gave the reason for this massive raid, but the question the community raises is the genuineness of this intelligence.”
Ex-Met Police Flying Squad Commander John O’Connor said he thought the raid was “very unprofessional”.

Mr O’Connor told BBC Breakfast on Saturday: “If you’re going to mount an operation like this, you want to have enough evidence to charge people with a criminal conspiracy … You don’t go in on the speculation that you might find the product.”
BBC correspondent Andy Tighe said sources believe the original intelligence was credible and police are continuing their hunt for “some sort of chemical, home-made device”.
In a statement issued after the brothers were freed, Home Secretary John Reid said police are acting in the “best interests of the whole community”.
‘Specific intelligence’
“They therefore deserve the support of the community in doing what is often a very hazardous and dangerous job that often involves difficult decisions.”
Anti-terror police raided the house at Forest Gate last week after saying they received “specific intelligence” that a chemical device might be found there.
Scotland Yard later said they had “no choice” but to act while the prime minister said it was essential officers took action if they received “reasonable” intelligence suggesting a terror attack.
Tony Blair said he backed the police and security services 101% and he refused to be drawn on suggestions that the armed operation had been a failure.
But Muslim leaders had warned police could lose the trust of Forest Gate residents if the situation was not clarified.
Meanwhile Scotland Yard has confirmed it is involved in a joint anti-terror investigation with Swedish police. Three men were arrested as part of the operation during a raid in Malmoe.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

Pathetic

Re: Questions after raid pair release

I thin the purpose is to intimidate desis

Re: Questions after raid pair release

Its Racism pure and simple and Muslims need to stand up for each other. West have manufactured a perception to discriminate, abase and humiliate Islam. Whether its detenstions after 9/11 in America, Canadian arrests or this....Racism is written all over it.

In the end, they'll end the 'investigation' just like they did the other ones by 'learning from mistakes'.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

Does it mean that the ever so "accepting" countries are not really that after all?

Re: Questions after raid pair release

Discrimination based on race or color is the easiest excuse in an unpleasant situation. However we all know that the easiest and simplest reasons are just that: simple and inaccurate!

For many decades now, South Asians in the West were accepted / tolerated and their lose talk in the mosques was generally ignored.

911 and other bombings in major European cities have changed that easy-going and somewhat strange image of South-Asians to something totally different.

People in the host (read Western) nations are now very tough on their law enforcement agencies. Look how US FBI and UK police were dragged through mud after the bombings in the respective countries.

These law enforcement agencies are now told not to take any chances. And the results are obvious as they apprehend Asian origin people at the slightest of the suspicion.

For South Asians it is particularly important to avoid lose talk against USA, Israel, or non-Muslim religions. We ought to regain our image as soft-spoken hard working people. The people who are more interested in improving their lives instead of harping on issues that are way beyond their power or comprehension.

Peace.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

Being tough is one thing, being incompetent is quite another. First their inaccurate and tatally incorrect intelligence that Iraq had WMD's. Since 9/11 the intellignece authorities in UK have shot two people. One died and the other has just survived. Both were totally innocent. So much for their intelligence led operations.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

antiobl

It is very common of West to discriminate people of different ethinicity in a time of war. They give terminology so that war mongers and apologists can feel better but, Racism is Racism not matter how you look at it.

During WWII over 120,000 of Japanese and Japanese Americans were relocated to War Relocation Camps. Although these camps had no hard labor, but did have poor living standards and isolation for people. Remember 62% of those in 120,000 were Americans and they were relocated just because they look different. All of them were innocent.

The camps were surrounded by barriers and patrolled by armed guards whose sole purpose was to keep the occupants inside, with the authority to use deadly force if necessary. This certain characteristic of the camps resembled those in Nazi Germany.

U.S did infact admit that the move was based on prejedice and discrimination. How is this happening in our time any different?

Re: Questions after raid pair release

9/11 and other tragedies are lame excuses. We suffereed too… yet, 9/11 and other incidents ignited these racists practices and discrimination against our communities. Just weeks after 9/11 over 700 violent attacks against Muslims, scores were illegally removed from air craft just because they were brown skin or had a name Muhammad. You have people like Jerry Farwell, who comes on 60 minutes and openly calls Muhammad :saw: a ‘terrorist’. In popular media, Muslims were depicted in an inflamatory fashion and no one corrected it.

Distrusting Muslim communities, based on the London tragedies, was both wrong and dangerous. It is like accusing Anglo-Americans after Timothy McVeigh’s bombing in Oklahoma City. Casting guilt broadly over Arabs, Muslims and South Asians must be understood for what it is – racism – and resisted.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

Dear Ehsan, hindsight is always 20/20 and you have every right to question the WMD fiasco in Iraq.

Let me ask your opinion about future. And please leave your bias in favor of one party or the other. OK!

Based on Iranian Prez statements, and very speculative reports from IAEA etc. what do you think? Iran has WMDs or not?

If not at this stage, what is your projection on next 5 years, 10 years, 15 years etc.?

We'll document your response right here on gupistan. Come 2011, we will use your opinion to look back on 2006.

The West has become powerful because they plan for many years in the future. Not all predictions are correct, but most of them are.

Hopefully you won't think people are putting you on the spot here. Remember the West has in the past put many other countries on notice for their nukie business and it is difficult for a patriot to list all those countries here.

For Iraq it just happened that poor Arabs were making empty threats and there was no reason for Saddam to kick out UN inspectors of Hans Blix team.

Remember! After losing GW-I, Saddam should have realized that people who stopped at Iraq borders could very well come in as well.

Saddam should have followed examples of South Africa, Ukraine, and Kazkhstan and opened up all his facilities. Unfortunately the false Arab-style pride got in his way and he continued playing bullie with the inspectors.

Poor Saddam forgot that the powers that can send inspectors in a country can also send in their soldiers. Ultimately we can always laugh at the wrong assessments of the West. But that laughing is besides the point, because we are not supposed to laugh at the West, we should cry for the destruction of Iraq. May be we learn a lesson or two to avoid the same mistakes in other countries and societies.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

Since 9/11 intelligence authorities have shot two innocent people? :eek:

So shooting two innocent people in 5 years of thwarting terrorist attacks, living through transit bombings and who knows how many investigations into terrorist cells and hate-filled sermons that inspire violence indicates a total failure of intelligence and enforcement? Too bad other societies aren’t held to such lofty standards. Or even a small fraction.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

An informant who was thought to be of high intelligence value said that a chemical attack was going to occur. At this point what the agency can do is either A. Hold off until further evidence comes forth to either support the informant’s information or discredit it. Or B. take action.

Now if the agency holds the intelligence given by the informant at high value then the agency is pretty much bound to take action or they are failing the public by putting them at risk and one they can neutralized.

As a citizen of Britain, Muslims or non, I would demand that better intelligence (as the intelligence in teh case was said to be shaky) be sought out and cooperation between units (police, MI5) be restructured. But as Seminole (welcome back) states the record is not as horrific as some make it seem. One thing is certain, another mistake will occur but for every mistake that does occur many more successful anti terror operations will have taken place.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

The point is more of failed and incpmpetent intelligence. One day this could lead to some serious casualities. Let’s not forget the incompetent intelligence on Iraq has resulted in thousands of deaths of innocent people. Two innocent people being shot because of Islamophobia in the police force in less than a year and you think it is no big deal.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

can you list high profile success cases in the last year by the British Intelligence service. The intelligence was so bad that we were being told that this was the tip of the iceberg. What happened?????

Re: Questions after raid pair release

If those two innocents people were your children/siblings/parents you would have a different slant on the situation I’m sure.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

So, they should help eradicate one stereotype and embrace another. Good thinking, anteee!

Dude, did you do your algebra homework? Do your parents know you post here on school nights?

Forest Gate shooting...

You have to see that there are two sides to the story...

Now as a UK resident you fall into two camps...7/7 should not happen again and sometimes disasters will happen....say if out of every 10 houses you raide you find one dangerous chemical then the other 9 can be justified cos you have saved the country from possible danger...(So Silly Billy these kids could have been ours but they may have ended up killing loads more kids)...

OR...

This is unacceptable and unfair targetting of those in the Muslim communities and the 9 out of 10 that you get wrong is extremely damaging to the families involved and also to race relations...

Do you feel this kind of police action is acceptable and justified under the name of national security?...

Re: Questions after raid pair release

Whenever Intelligence Agencies suspect anything related to terrorism, they try to link it with International terrorists like Osama Bin Laden. This six-degree of separation when not found, only misleads them to innocent citizens.

The problem is media has done its job declaring Islam and Extreminism as the 'root cause' of the problem. This leads them to believe that Islamic Ideology is the reason why Muslims carry out attacks when the reality is they cannot. Whether its 9/11, London or Madrid, careful planning, training, money and plot was established and this is where terror organizations play a role in it.

If the intelligence agencies want to fix this problem, they need to go back to the drawing board and establish a decent case whether a 'suspected cell' is indeed related to Al-Qaeda or allied organization than make a move. These rapid arrests whether in U.S, U.K or Canada only fuel the anger and mistrust among Muslims and the West who cannot live and survive withouth eachother's help.

Intelligence Agencies of their respective countries are under tremendous criticism after an attack on their nation. Intelligence is an art rather than science and since world media has projected Islamic Ideology as the 'root' cause, more and more citizens get concerned and mislead, regardless they are Muslims or Non-Muslims. They want action before anything terrible happens and these agencies end up 'suspecting' and falsely labelling people and plots that in the end becomes an embarassement for them.

This strategy is not effective because it will not help uncover any terror cell or halt any future terror plot. In this time of paranoia, people take statisfaction and approve rounding up of people. The problem is that they don't realize what they are doing under this so-called 'national security' umberlla, they are fueling hate and mistrust, they are promoting racism.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

What a funny response. How soon we forget Mullahs in London calling for the death of infedels. Weren’t the London bombers doing it in the name of Islam?
There is no need for the media to make anything up. Simply read this thread.
As for connecting this to the lack of WMD in Iraq is simply a bad analogy. One was a failure of the foreign intelligence services, and this was a police operation.
Moreover, it’s better err and let some go that to cope with another 7/7 or 9/11 type attack. The fact remains, if Muslims are having to deal with a bad image, it is of their own making.

Re: Questions after raid pair release

How was WMD a failure of foreign intelligence services. Maybe the satellites up in the skies were owned by Martians. The irrefutable evidence produced in UN was form these martian satellites. Secondly what police operation. It was an MI5 led operation, and just to let you know MI5 is UK leading intelligence service. Isn't it ironic that this incompetent service had no idea of the 7/7 and 21/7 attacks yet were very quick to kill one innocent person based on faulty intelligence and seriously injure another. One has but to marvel at the competence of these intelligence agencies. The fact remains the hysteria against Islam now is at unprecedented level fueled by an equally hysterical western media.