Question to Qadianis/Ahmadis

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

As I understand, other than accepting Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as the last prophet they follow everything else as a sunni muslim.
Two questions for them.

  1. How would they react if someone comes out now and claims to be the prophet after Mirza Ghulam Ahmed. What does he will have to prove?

  2. What is your belief about Sunni and Shia muslims? Since they (at least sunni, I am not sure if Shia consider qadiani as kafir or not! ) consider you as Kafir.

Belief is not what mind possesses, it is what possesses the mind!

2

[quote]
Originally posted by analyze it:
**
I am not sure if Shia consider qadiani as kafir or not!

**
[/quote]

Bro, its bhuttos time and there is a hot debate going on in the parliment whether to prove QADIYANIS non-muslim or not.....they reach the verdict....which is YES>.....they get challenged by the qadiyani scholars....prominent muslim (sunni) scholars and qadiyani scholar start the debate...it just goes on and on and on.....finally bhutto calls on to Allama Ismael (i think his 2nd name was deobandi, he was a converted shia).....as soon as he enters in the parliment house the qadiyani scholar said a historic sentene "Arey allama saheb aap kahan aa gae, humaree behes insay thee...momineen say nahee)....Allama ismael continued and within an hour the qadiyanis had been defeated by alone allama Ismael....This whole event was recorded by all the media and newspapers of the time.....ALLAMA ismael was later assasinated.

3

Ok, go ahead. Discuss. Lets see.

4

I don't understand one thing, why LAST is so important. We never claim that Mira Sahib was Last Prophet, if anybody come, he will come with his proofs and we will accept him. Now let me tell you one thing "Prophethood is a Blessing" and it a institute controlled by Allah not by some Parliment or National Assembly. Whatever happened in NA is a seceret and no media was allowed on that room. It was a close door sessions of NA and no TV or any kind of newsmedia was allowed in that room. It's actaully us who are demanding the report to be make public, we actually offer to pay for it to.

<< This whole event was recorded by all the media and newspapers of the time >>

I don't know how that happened.

5

johnd, so u dont beleive in the Kalima?

6

Guys lets not refer to Qadianis as Ahmedi please- Ahmed is our beloved prophets name in the heavens and as such should not be involved or associated with non-Islmic movements!!!

7

<< johnd, so u dont beleive in the Kalima? >>

Excuse me.............

8

How does one “convert” to shiaism?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Analize, first of all Mirza was not a prophet. None of his charactristics suggest that he was prophet, the attributes he had as a human being do not come close to kind of attributes a PROPHET has.

For Example:

He made many false prophecies which never came true. [dying in makka or madina, dying at age of 80 but he died at 70 in lahore, his son being light for the world but son died after a week he was born…etc. etc.]

Do you think Allah would humiliate his prophet like this by NOT making any of his prophecies come true? He created lies against Allah and Allah showed us that he was the liar and a loser.

He contradicts with himself in his own writtings. He used abusive language for his opponents, a prophet is not like that.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

9

And who can be more unjust than he who invents a lie against Allah, or says: "I have received inspiration," whereas he is not inspired in anything; and who says, "I will reveal the like of what Allah has revealed." ...

(The Holy Quran, Al-Anam, 6:93)

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

10

The bring fabricated hadith from bukhari and other hadith books, lets see if they believe this:

My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets.

(Bukhari, Muslim,Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Tirmizi, Babu Khatimin-Nabiyyin, Musnad Abu Dawud Tayalisi)

It is related by Hazrat Thauban(RA) that our Prophet(SAW) said:

"In my Ummah there shall be born thirty liars (dajjals) each of them will claim that he is a prophet but I am the last of the Prophets; there shall be no prophet after me".

(Abu Dawood and Tirmizi)

The Prophet of Allah(SAW) affirmed:

"The chain of Messengers and Prophets has come to an end. There shall be no Messenger nor Prophet after me."

(Tirmidhi, Kitab-ur-Rouya Babu Zahab-un- Nubuwwa, Musnad Ahmad, Marwiyat-Anas bin Malik)

The Holy Prophet(SAW) observed:

"The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me."

(Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Manaqib).

Allama Syed Mahmood Aloosi writes in Tafseer Roohul-Mani:

"That he (Muhammad(SAW)) was the final prophet, is ordained by the Quran, acknowledged by the Sunnah and agreed upon by the Ummah; hence a claimant to the contrary will be (determined as) Kaffir (unbeliever) and put to death if he is persistent".

They will still reject the TRUTH and be one of the losers - arrogant people.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

11

salaam ppl!
It's a very interseting topic u got here and i sure would like to answer and raise some important points time by time.
I'll try to stick with the questions asked first then get into some real talk with u ppl out there brought up with wrong believes and sadly as much as the truth hurts u lot have not tried to investigate anything ur selves but still believe in ur elders as it seems they've done all the findings which r needed to be done or were ever needed.

Anyways i'll just go back to the questions asked: first of all "analyze it" sahib/sahiba answer to ur first question is very long and needs time. I'm sure u want it nice and simple so, for ur first question Ahmadis believe that the Holy Prophet was the last prophet. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Sahib claimed to be the Promissed Messiah and the reformer of the new age.

Answer to the second question is quite simple if not complicated, that Ahmadis believe that the Mahdi Maud or the Promissed Messiah has in the person of Mirza Ghulam sahib and secondaly Sunis and Shias believe that he is still to come and the are waiting for him. By the way he was promissed to come in the 14th Century and I assume u know that the century has passed by.
hope this helps u!
Allah Hafiz!

12

Bismah, are we use to talking without any references? Where was Mehdi promised to come in 14th century???

Do you deny the hadith I posted about the actual mehdi?

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

13

Salaam
Dear Mr.watcher you come with lots of claims but can you come with some quotes too. It is very easy to say things without any proof. By the way if Mirza Ghulam Ahmed died in toilet or could not speak properly what this has to do with Islam??
I think Hazrat Moosa (pbuh) could not speak properly too. I can’t see that you point it at him as a proabable danger for religion. Hazrat Bilal (pbuh) had the same problem but no one stopped him by saying ‘‘azan’’. So please if you can’t come with some real issues so dont bother…and by the way show some respect for other people.

14

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**Bismah, are we use to talking without any references? Where was Mehdi promised to come in 14th century???

Do you deny the hadith I posted about the actual mehdi?

Hey Watcher
What you say about this vers:
70. And whoso obeys ALLAH and this Messenger shall be among those on whom ALLAH has bestowed HIS blessings - the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And an excellent company are they.
(an-nisa)
Do you deny this??? Don't you think that Holy Quran should come first when it comes to references???
**
[/quote]

15

[quote]
Originally posted by Pagluu:
** Bro, its bhuttos time and there is a hot debate going on in the parliment whether to prove QADIYANIS non-muslim or not.....they reach the verdict....which is YES>.....they get challenged by the qadiyani scholars....prominent muslim (sunni) scholars and qadiyani scholar start the debate...it just goes on and on and on.....finally bhutto calls on to Allama
Ismael (i think his 2nd name was deobandi, he was a converted shia).....as soon as he enters in the parliment house the qadiyani scholar said a historic sentene "Arey allama saheb aap kahan aa gae, humaree behes insay thee...momineen say nahee)....Allama ismael continued and within an hour the qadiyanis had been defeated by alone allama Ismael....This whole event was recorded by all the media and newspapers of the time.....ALLAMA ismael was later assasinated.

**
[/quote]

WELL THE TRUTH THAT SO FAR NOTHING NOTHING IS EVER PUBLISHED FROM THAT DEBATE WHICH TOOK PLACE IN THE PARLIMENT. IT IS BANNED UNTILL NOW, SO THAT PUBLIC WOULD NOT FIND OUT THE TRUTH.Pagluu AS YOU SAID This whole event was recorded by all the media and newspapers of the time.SHOW ME AN ARTICLE FROM ANY NEWSPAPER WHICH DICUSSED THIS DEBATE SINCE THEN UNTILL KNOWWWWWW?OR ANY RECORDINGS?

TELL US WHAT WERE THE QUESTIONED ASKED allama Ismael AND WHAT WERE THE ANSWERS GIVEN BY AHMADIS? SO WE COULD WE COULD KNOW TOO
WHAT EVER DISCUSSED THEN IT HAS NEVER BEEN IT IS BANNED TO PUBLISHED THE DEBATE WHICH PLACE IN THE PARLIMENT.
WHY???//

16

No-man, answer my questions in my first reply. Read it again please, sir.

What does that verse have to do with the topic being discussed, just because the verse mentions prophets in it, doesn't mean mirza was a prophet or a truthful person.

I do have the references, but I am sorry to say you will deny those, because TRUTH hurts you bad. Want to see?

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited March 11, 2001).]

17

The promised Massiah (as) never claimed to be the last prophet!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Nor do Ahmadies believe in him to be …

We are among the believers!! We believed in the Promised Messiah! Surely we will accept if Allah sends down another prophet!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

So, if someone can prove himself to be from Allah then Allhamdolillah!!!

As Allah says in Quran:

*4:151. Surely, those who disbelieve in ALLAH and HIS Messengers and seek to make a distinction between ALLAH and HIS Messengers, and say, `We believe in some and disbelieve in others,’ and seek to take a way between;

4:152. **These really are the disbelievers, *and WE have prepared for the disbelievers an humiliating punishment

And from this following Ayyat in Quran the door of Prophethood, Siddiqiyat, Shauhada & Salahiyat is open! Who are we to close it??

**4: 70. And whoso obeys ALLAH and this Messenger shall be among those on whom ALLAH has bestowed HIS blessings - the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And an excellent company are they. **

Hope that explains a little more …

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Belief in what sence brother?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Allah is the judge, who am I to judge of their deeds …

43: 26. So WE exacted retribution from them. Then see what was the end of those who rejected the Prophets !

P.s: Watcher Bhai, app say to sawal poocha hee nahin onhoon nay??? App asay hee beech main tang arayee ja rahay hain? Kia sabar, tahamal, kuch sakoon ki Hadi nahin hain app main?

18

There is a general mis-understanding about Ahmadiyya beliefs. Followings are ten conditions of “Bait” initiation into Jamat Ahmadiyya, written by the Founder of Ahmadiyya community himself. These conditions for becoming an Ahmadi Muslim explains our Jamat’s beleifs as well.

Conditions for “Bait” or initiation.

I. That he/she shall abstain from Shirk (association of any partner with God) right up to the day of his/her death.

II. That he/she shall keep away from falsehood, fornication, adultery, trespasses of the eye, debauchery, dissipation, cruelty, dishonestly, mischief and rebellion; and will not permit himself/herself to be carried away by passions, however strong they might be.

III. That he/she shall regularly offer the five times daily prayers in accordance with the commandments of God and the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him); and shall try his/her best to be regular in offering the Tahajud (pre-dawn supererogatory prayers) and invoking Darood (blessings) on the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him); that he/she shall make it his/her daily routine to ask forgiveness for his/her sins, to remember the bounties of God and to praise and glorify Him.

IV. That under the impulse of any passions, he/she shall cause no harm whatsoever to the creatures of Allah in general, and Muslims in particular, neither by his/her tongue nor by his/her hands nor by any other means.

V. That he/she shall remain faithful to God in all circumstances of life, in sorrow and happiness, adversity and prosperity, in felicity and trial; and shall in all conditions remain resigned to the decree of Allah and keep himself/herself ready to face all kinds of indignities and sufferings in His way and shall never turn away from it at the onslaught of any misfortune; on the contrary, he/she shall march forward.

VI. That he/she shall refrain from following un-islamic customs and lustful inclinations, and shall completely submit himself/herself to the authority of the Holy Quran; and shall make the Word of God and the Sayings of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) the guiding principle in every walk of his/her life.

VII. That he/she shall entirely give up pride and vanity and shall pass all his/her life in humbleness, cheerfulness, forbearance and meekness.

VIII. That he/she shall hold faith, the honor of faith, and the cause of Islam dearer to him/her than his/her life, wealth, honor, children and all other dear ones.

IX. That he/she shall keep himself/herself occupied in the service of God’s creatures for His sake only; and shall endeavor to benefit mankind to the best of his/her God-given abilities and powers.

X. That he/she shall enter into a bond of brotherhood with this humble servant of God, pledging obedience to me in everything good, for the sake of Allah, and remain faithful to it till the day of his/her death; that he/she shall exert such a high devotion in the observance of this bond as is not to be found in any other worldly relationship and connections demanding devoted dutifulness.

(Translated from Ishtehar Takmeel-e-Tabligh, January 12, 1889) written by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

http://www.geocities.com/~q_ahmed/

19

Ahmadjee, so can you prove to us if Mirza Ghulam ahmad was from Allah? As you say:

<<<, if someone can prove himself to be from Allah then Allhamdolillah!!! >>>>

<<<4: 70. And whoso obeys ALLAH and this Messenger shall be among those on>>>

Here ALlah is refering to MOHAMMAD(PBUH) as a Messenger, not anyone else. Why are you using conjectures to prove your false points?

Koon sa sawal poocha tha, zara khul kar poocho na phir jawab bhi miley ga, POINT it out so I can see it.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

20

Proofs are for those who want to believe, Abu-Jahal was a great scholor of Arabia but yet he didn’t believe in Hazoor (saw)

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

**2: 3. This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous, **

So Bhai, I surely can prove to the content of my heart, and so I believe! For you I can only pray … and so I will!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Being the perfect servant and follower of Hazrat Muhammad (saw), The promised Messiah was blessed with prophethood!

My point being if one can attain prophethood following Hazoor (saw) as stated by the above mention ayyat … so can others. Prophets can still come!

Will there surely be another prophet, Allah knows better. He is the surely All-Knowing!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Array Baba, main araz kar raha tha kay analyze it asked question “Question to Qadianis/Ahmadis” … App say to sawal nahin kia tha na? Phir app asay hee tang arayay ja rahay hain??

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Watcher mian, Apnay ka’am say matlub rahnay main hee maslihat hay … Aub bhee sumjh ayee kay nahin?