I want Muslims who source their view of Islam to Quran or ahadis to answer this question with basis:
Can there be any good/naiki possible that is not directly or indirectly presecribed in Islam? Can there be traditions that are good that are not Islamically prescribed traditions.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
you are very vague, give some examples.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
If I am not wrong you mean to ask if there is any particular act which is good and is followed by non-muslims but Islam doesn't specifically orders us to do it.
Well, if you see in a broader perspective than there is no possible good act which can be excluded from Islam because Islam covers all good acts of people directly or indirectly.
For example a Hadith "The Best amongst people is the one most beneficial to people"
But if you are asking of any specific good act which muslims are not "specifically" ordered to do in the exact way but is practiced by people in some socieities. In that case there might be some courtesies which are practiced in western countries. Like not spiting on the road, holding the door for the person coming behind you (in any public place)....etc
Also with the advancement of science there can be things like the use of wheel chairs for the patients and most of the other inventions which are beneficial to mankhind and were not known by people before they were invented.
About traditions, I feel some traditions like celebrating mother's day, labour's day or any other gathering or meeting which is done for a good intention and a great purpose for humanity, as a result of man's efforts and thinking, than it can be called as a good practice by people as long as it doesn't violate anyone's rights or contradicts the basic requirements for a good human being. So there can be any such good thing/act which Islam has not specifically pointed out to us, though it still covers the spirit of the ISlamic teachings.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
problem with examples is that the discussion becomes about those examples. if I say for example being environmentally conscious then I dont want to discuss the environment and global warming and Islam. i want to know whether in general can something be good (and therefore sawab) without it being directly prescribed within the religion of Islam, or does it always have to be cast as an Islamic edict, say if we talk about being environmentally conscious then its good cause xyz hadis says dont waste or be a good person.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
If I am not wrong you mean to ask if there is any particular act which is good and is followed by non-muslims but Islam doesn't specifically orders us to do it.
Well, if you see in a broader perspective than there is no possible good act which can be excluded from Islam because Islam covers all good acts of people directly or indirectly.
For example a Hadith "The Best amongst people is the one most beneficial to people"
But if you are asking of any specific good act which muslims are not "specifically" ordered to do in the exact way but is practiced by people in some socieities. In that case there might be some courtesies which are practiced in western countries. Like not spiting on the road, holding the door for the person coming behind you (in any public place)....etc
Also with the advancement of science there can be things like the use of wheel chairs for the patients and most of the other inventions which are beneficial to mankhind and were not known by people before they were invented.
About traditions, I feel some traditions like celebrating mother's day, labour's day or any other gathering or meeting which is done for a good intention and a great purpose for humanity, as a result of man's efforts and thinking, than it can be called as a good practice by people as long as it doesn't violate anyone's rights or contradicts the basic requirements for a good human being. So there can be any such good thing/act which Islam has not specifically pointed out to us, though it still covers the spirit of the ISlamic teachings.
good answer, you got the gist of what I was asking.
is there any Islamic precedent/basis for the bolded part?
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
Well it might be possible that it is not directly prescribed in Islam, but it can't be possible that it is also not (atleast) indirectly prescribed in Islam.
(Just my personal view. I might be wrong. Some knowledgeable person might be able to give a better opinion)
But as they say "The better diver is able to bring the jewel from the deep sea". So the better the person is in understanding Quran and hadith (in depth) the better he is able to relate any specific issue with Islamic teachings directly or indirectly.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
This is very nice topic. Infact I have a question myself (just because I haven't done enough research myself yet to have my own personal opinion),
Every humans deeds are recorded. In the hereafter we will be compensated for our deeds. So do we get rewards or compensation for our deeds in this world and if we do then do they still count in the hereafter?
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
great topic for sure
I think the end does not justify the means for example a music concert for charity or saving the envoirment is hardly a good deed, however raising awareness thru seminars , speeches , pamphlets is definately one
in the time of Prophet[pbuh] saving the envoirment was not much of an issue but in the greater defination of israaf the wastefulness of the natural resources can be included IMHO
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
I want Muslims who source their view of Islam to Quran or ahadis to answer this question with basis:
Can there be any good/naiki possible that is not directly or indirectly presecribed in Islam? Can there be traditions that are good that are not Islamically prescribed traditions.
I think there can be good deeds which may not be explicitly prescribed in Quran/Sunnah. Take the example of someone giving water to a thirsty dog, who in our current set of "Muslims" would've thought giving water to a thirsty dog could be so rewarding.
I would say that stopping at red lights (traffic) would be a 'naiki' as well because you are not just stopping for yourself but very potentially saving life of someone, saving someone from getting severely injured etc. This 'red light stop' is just an example from my side to say that yes there can be 'naiki' not prescribed in Quran/Sunnah.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
I.
I would say that stopping at red lights (traffic) would be a 'naiki' as well because you are not just stopping for yourself but very potentially saving life of someone, saving someone from getting severely injured etc. This 'red light stop' is just an example from my side to say that yes there can be 'naiki' not prescribed in Quran/Sunnah.
very true...... but whats the intention...fear of Allah or fear of the traffic cop
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
very true...... but whats the intention...fear of Allah or fear of the traffic cop
I was going to put "Innamal a'amalu binniyat", but then did the guy who provided water to the dog did it out of fear from God or because he felt bad about the poor dog?
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
very true...... but whats the intention...fear of Allah or fear of the traffic cop
Actually, is it really fear of Allah SWT or to hope mercy and reward from him. Cops will not reward you but Allah SWT will. In certain cases it can be a combination of both or either one.
Here are a few hadith relevant to the topic, I think:
Muslim
Book 005, Number 2199:
'A'isha reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Every one of the children of Adam has been created with three hundred and sixty joints; so he who declares the Glory of Allah, praises Allah, declares Allah to be One, Glorifies Allah, and seeks forgiveness from Allah, and removes stone, or thorn, or bone from people's path, and enjoins what is good and forbids from evil, to the number of those three hundred and sixty-four, will walk that day haviing removed himself from Hell.
Abu Dawood
Book 41, Number 5225:
Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A man never did a good deed but removed a thorny branch from the road; it was either in the tree and someone cut it and threw it on the road, or it was lying in it, he removed it. Allah accepted this good deed of his and brought him into Paradise.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
thank you for your replies everyone, I think most people are saying similar stuff and I agree with all of you.
my second question is given that there may be some actions that are not directly prescribed in Islam and are merely in our opinion "good" actions done with a good niyat, is there a risk of subjectivity? Can an action be "good" from one perspective and haram/bad in actuality. if so would you get gunah for it?
To give a trivial example, suppose someone reads the arguments presented so far and decides attending sunday prayers in a church is good because you are remembering God and helping build inter-community relationships, whereas in another version of Islam that is actually apostacy (fictitious example) at worst and bid'aa atleast. When you say some actions that are not directly prescribed in Islam can be good depending on how you Islamically justify it, are you opening the door for that contradiction?
If so, is this an example of relativism in Islam?
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
thank you for your replies everyone, I think most people are saying similar stuff and I agree with all of you.
my second question is given that there may be some actions that are not directly prescribed in Islam and are merely in our opinion "good" actions done with a good niyat, is there a risk of subjectivity? Can an action be "good" from one perspective and haram/bad in actuality. if so would you get gunah for it?
To give a trivial example, suppose someone reads the arguments presented so far and decides attending sunday prayers in a church is good because you are remembering God and helping build inter-community relationships, whereas in another version of Islam that is actually apostacy (fictitious example) at worst and bid'aa atleast. When you say some actions that are not directly prescribed in Islam can be good depending on how you Islamically justify it, are you opening the door for that contradiction?
If so, is this an example of relativism in Islam?
This is a touchy example but I believe it would depend on what is your intention and how you are representing yourself. If you are going their to make friends by attending their prayers that is a No No in my opinion. You would actually be exploiting their belief for your own good because you are never going to believe what they believe.
If you are going there to represent yourself as a muslim with an agenda to have interfaith cooperation and harmony then I think it is justified. However I would still abstain from indulging in their prayer. If they are respectful of you they would not be bothered by it. If it is a just a supplication which does not involve professing ones beliefs personally I am fine with it. I have visited Churches and interfaith events at times representing myself as a muslim.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
Well, intentions matter alot. It be possible that two people are doing two exactly opposite actions but on the basis of their intentions (Niyyah) they get equal sawab or vice versa.
Once Huzur (saw) saw Hazrat Abu bakr (r.a) and Hazrat Umar (r.a) reciting Darood sharif in the masjid. The former was reciting in a loud voice while the later was reciting in such a low voice that only his lips were moving.
When asked about the reason The first said " I am reciting in a loud voice so that it may also serve as a reminder for those who pass by me and might not remember reciting Drood sharif in masjid." (In that way they wouldn't miss this great deed)
The second replied " I am reciting in a low voice because my intentions are not to show off to other people but only to please Allah"
The Prophet (saw) appreciated both of them for their good intentions though their ways were opposite.
Similarly once a man was riding a horse in a desert and decided to take a break for a while. When he wanted to tie his horse, he couldnt find anything, so he inserted a stick in the ground firmly with an intention that if someone else passes by the same area, this stick would help him in tieing his animals.
After that man left that place, another man was walking while he was lost in his thoughts and couldnt notice the stick due to which he collided with the stick. He removed that stick from the ground with the intention that no one else might get hurt in future.
Both of them would get the sawab for their intentions (Niyyah) though their actions were totally opposite to each others
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
^ can you source your ahadis please Submission to Peace sahab, they are very relevant
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
But I would like to empasise here that our own mind and logics might not always lead us to the correct way so it is always better to share with wise and knowledgeable people and learn different opinions after which we would be in a better position to choose a better option for ourselves. The knowledge of a Prophet (saw) is equal to a desert if the knowledge of a comon man is equal to a grain of sand. BUT still the Prophet (saw) used to take "Mashwara" from other suhabas so that this act become common among muslims, and no one decides anything "only" on his own (by jumping suddenly to a conclusion), without seeking guidence and advice from those who have spent their lives in learning that specific field (or whom Allah has blessed with wisdom)
Also it is always better to filter our thought through authentic religious sources just to make sure that we might not take a wrong decision. As in the Quran Allah says> (not exact wording but something similar I read)
You might consider (feel/think) anything to be good for yourself but Allah knows it is not better for you and you might think anything to be bad for yourself but Allah knows it is good for you, as Allah knows and you do not know
Shaitaan (devil) was among the most praying due to which he got a highest post than the angels but he was misguided when he tried to use his own logic of fire being superior to soil ( which might sound logical but logics lose value when order of Allah is given)
Similarly mind was saying to Hazrat Ibrahim (a.s) why would Allah ask you to butcher your son. Allah is not so cruel !! But the heart was saying NO! once the order has been given than no logics.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
Nice post.
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
I want Muslims who source their view of Islam to Quran or ahadis to answer this question with basis:
I'm not sure I meet the criteria but I liked the topic so I'll just reply. If I dont qualify please dont send me messages that I've done something, something and earned the bad points and will be blocked soon : ). Thats where I left last time
Can there be any good/naiki possible that is not directly or indirectly presecribed in Islam?
I'm really not sure what you mean, but I'd say that if there is anything you are doing and it does not contradict with religious teachings no harm doing them. If it makes someone happy or makes any difference then I guess that will qualify as a good dead.
Can there be traditions that are good that are not Islamically prescribed traditions.
you mean something that has to do with culture? Elder brothers and sisters are not named in PK 'out of respect'. It has nothing to do with religion just the way we look at it. So you know, what if someone call his elder brother with the title we give, like xyz bhai and really do not respect from heart? So again, it depends on tradition to tradition, in my opinion.
my second question is given that there may be some actions that are not directly prescribed in Islam and are merely in our opinion "good" actions done with a good niyat, is there a risk of subjectivity? Can an action be "good" from one perspective and haram/bad in actuality. if so would you get gunah for it?
Do your best and leave the reward to Allah (swt), that is just my suggestion. And, Islam does allow you leverage in some cases, but as far as my knowledge goes they've to be dealt with, individually. Based on the circumstances and situation. I'm sorry I've gone very bad on references lately but one of Dr. Bilal Philips lecture will had the reference
Re: Question to conservative Muslims
Walaikum Assalam USresident brother. JAzak Allah khair for the kind words of encouragement.:)
@ravage. I learned them a long time ago, would inshAllah quote after I get the source.
I would like to share something related to my last post.
Except prophets no one can be "The Wisest" in "every" matter. Few might be wise in some matters while others might be wise in other matters. So always better to consult possible sources before making a decision.
Few times in my life I decided to do something, my intentions were sincere, and my knowledge of Islam was saying that you must do that, as you are doing it only for Allah But later on the result of that action was not good. BUT when I read in detail from different sources and shared with alot of people I was able to see the matter from "many dimensions" after knowing the perspectives of different people and was in a better position to make a better decision.
Like Islam says that the best way to stop a bad act is to stop it with hand, if not possible than with tongue if that is also not possible than just think of it to be bad in oyur heart.
^ The above hadith seem to support that we should physically stop the matter if we want maximum sawab BUT ISlam also says that we should do it at the "right" time, you should be in a position that it you have been given the authority to do so, with "Hikmah" and in such a way that we might not hurt the feelings or violate the rights of anyone.