Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal


So in essence, the Quran is incomplete and one must rely on Hadith to complete the picture? Well in that case, that be your belief, not my understanding for the Quran is complete and fully detailed. More than 1/3 of the Quran tells the exalted prophet what to say as in "Qul"... that is what I would call authentic Hadith, not someone's memory of what he heard from his grandfather who heard from his friend's uncle who heard from someone else leading all the way to the exalted prophet. Try doing that in a court during a trial as evidence, and you'll see what the judge has to say :)

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

No, the Quran is complete but the complete Quran does not completely define Islam. If you are true then you'll provide a verse to show the Quran completely transcribes Islam.
May I remind you to take a look at surah al kahf, which says in it that if the seas were ink they would dry up but Allah's words would not finish. This means there is much knowledge that Allah has not revealed to us.

The Quran also says that in the Prophet is a brilliant example, so it tells us to refer to his Sunnah and we know this Sunnah through hadith.

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

lol it is either complete, or it isn't... this is a message from God we are talking about.

The entire Quran defines what Islam is...

That does not mean he sent us an incomplete message

:) you know? how? through Bukhari and Ibn Ishaaq? Comeon you can do better than that :) I think :D

Most definitely he is a brilliant example in that Wa -Laqad- Ra'aahu bil Ufuqil Mubeen - Wa Maa hua 'Alaa Ghaibi Bidhaneen


I made a mistake while writing... it should be wa laqad ra'aahu and not wa maa ra'aahu

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

Allah has indeed shown grace to the believers in sending them a messenger from among themselves who reciteth unto them His revelations, and purifieth them and teacheth them the Book and Wisdom (3:164).

These are the functions of the Prophet (PBUH). Revelations=Quran. The other 3: purifying, teaching the book and wisdom. There is the evidence from the Quran.

[QUOTE]
The purpose of sending the Messenger is, apart from "reciting His revelations, " firstly to "purify" them, for the proper understanding of the Book and "wisdom," and the ability to put them into practice, is unattainable unless a purification of the heart, the centre of the will and intentions, has not been achieved. This purification consists of the spiritual influence of the Holy Prophet's personality, and his continual exhortations to the believers by word and example in the light of the Qur'an to purify their thoughts and deeds. The next stage after this purification is the "teaching of the Book," that is, to explain and demonstrate the implications of the Book, and to apply it to the circumstances of human life in the most excellent way. Finally, the "teaching of wisdom" refers to the development into a science of certain subjects treated in general in the Qur'an, such as spiritual science, moral science, the science of the Shari'ah, of government etc., regarding all of which we can find valuable guidance both theoretical and practical from the Prophet. These four main functions of the Prophet have been instituted and carried out by the command under the guidance of God Himself, and constitute an integral part of God's message to mankind. To state that only the first function is of permanent significance is simply to flout the Word of God.
[/QUOTE]

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

hypnotix-2000, are you Pervezi?

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

Whatever bro.................May Allah guide us to the straight path.

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal


Not that He may, HE DOES! Allahu Yahdee Maeen Yashaa Alaa Sitaarim Mustaqeem.

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal


No dear bro,
I am not a sectarian like Parvezis, Shias, Sunnis, Deobandis, and whetever sectarians call themselves. I am MUSLIM...

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

L0L, let me put it this way, you only take Quran as the source?

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal


It is one thing to not understand the message of the Quran, it is another thing to propagate it without understanding. If you want to believe what you just wrote and quoted, then so be it, but please do not try to convince me that this is what 3:164 is saying.

Al-Kitaab does not necessarily mean "book"; it means LAW (especially from Jahiliyyah Arabic point of view), the same way TAURAA means Law in Hebrew. So try to translate the verse now:

لَقَدْ مَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اِذْ بَعَثَ فِيهِمْ رَسُولًا مِنْ انْفُسِهِمْ يَتْلُوا عَلَيْهِمْ ءايَتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمْ الْكِتَبَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَاِنْ كَانُوا مِنْ قَبْلُ لَفِي ضَلَلٍ مُبِينٍ
God did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them HIS SIGNS, sanctifying them, and instructing them in THE LAW and THE WISDOM, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.

THE LAW and THE WISDOM is IN the SIGNS OF GOD... i.e. the Great Reading: Quran. The law prescribes what to do and the wisdom (contained within the message of the Quran) tells you why.

Secondly, who are these "believers" amongst whom the exalted messenger is sent? And second, what did the prophet's people say to the him according to the Quran:

وَجَدنَا عَليْها آباءُنا واللّه أمَرنَا بِهَا
And we saw our elders on this (path) and God has prescribed it for us.

Sounds very much like the rhetoric of those who say they follow "sunnah" (be they sunni or shia or anyone who follows for sake for following)

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal


bro kbx, with all due respect, what else would you have me take as source besides the word of God? In His own words, "who can tell you a more reliable HADITH than Allah" and that "the Messenger is ONLY TO DELIVER"... btw, this is from the Quran and not my imagination.

Refer to my earlier post to understand why I say what I say..

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

but taking only quran and neglecting one of the best effort in collecting the sayings of any prophet out of 1,24,000 prophets in the human history ......having the detailed life sketches of more than 1,00,000 ravis ....does this rule also apply to lord krishan in hinduism.....zartash in zartorastrian....moosa in judaism...christ in christianoty that thier sayings also kept and saved in the same manner.....if not than whats the speciality of the last prophet(pbuh) !!!!!!

and you do not want to look a second glance on bukhari or other books and ibne ishaque because you think that "someone" can be better of that great intellectuals and personalities and salif-us-salihoon as in hadees the best people are near me....

do you think those thousands of great muhadisseen and thier thousands ofstudents who spent thier 60 60 70 70 years in collecting hadees were mad or foolish......!!!!!!!
Subhanallah

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

and he does not speak from himself but it is wahi which is revealed on him(pbuh)

this is the verse of quran and thats why hadees is called as wahi-ghair-matlu...means that wahi which is not recited......
you are just the same as Ghulam Ahmed Pervez said that for us..quran is enough...and hadees has no importance...not a new thing ..."munkareena-i-hadees" are always there and they will remain...

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal


First off, the Hadith of the prophet is contained within the Quran as in what God instructed him to "Qul", and that is how he must have said it as an answer to those who asked him a certain question; that bro is Authentic Hadith, that in which there is NO DOUBT.

I do not deny Hadith. I deny the collections of alleged sayings within the Sunni and Shia's so-called books of hadith that are based on nothing but heresay and conjuncture... you, dear brother, associate me with G A Pervez; I don't... I am simply following the Word of God and if you find it discomforting for me to say that the Quran is Complete and Detailed, then that is your issue really. Why isn't being only Muslim enough for people?

Today's Gospel is centred around Jesus and recorded in the form of his sayings and some events of his life (Hadith and Sirah)... according to the Quran, the Gospel is distorted... it seems as though the original Injeel that was revealed (whether as a book or not) was forgotten/abandoned and people/monarchy kept the alleged sayings of Jesus collected by Paul or whoever. Recognize the pattern?

The miracle of the Quran is that despite best efforts of clergy and those in power who wanted to control the masses for their own selfish interests, the Quran remains preserved in its original form.


It is not my place to disrespect those you revere, but trusting these muhaddithin is what I used to do a very long time ago. What I think now, is that their alleged efforts may not be out of goodness of their heart... Try duplicating the method of the so-called asnaad in a court trial as evidence and see who takes your "evidence" seriously. I'll leave it at that. Ma'Salam!

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

  1. only qul are hadeeth ..no other can be.... 2.i agree..many weak ahadees also...as human naturetends towards false...but bukhari out of 700000 took 2512 without duplication and you call it conjucture...strange... 3.it also applies to hadees 4.if 100 sahabs are sitting in front of prophet(pbuh) ...so everyone has its own memeory and limitations to remember...so what wrong with weak isnaad and thier whole science.....

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

Yes


You are assuming that Bukhari and company were sincere and their efforts were not tainted/sponsored by the monarchy of the time... I do not assume that... at some point or the other, the Umayyads, Abbasids and Fatimids (not to mention later dynasties) have hijacked religion with sponsored clergy. The picture is almost like the Council of Nicea...


The alleged sayings of the beloved prophet Muhammad, people erroneously call "Hadith" were not 'collected' until after 150 odd years of the prophet's passing away. Even if the efforts were sincere, it is like the generation of the children of our children set out to compile a list of all sayings of Muhammad Ali Jinnah (assuming ancient times - no technology). Give me a break! Something isn't right with this picture... I wanted to avoid having to disrespect those you revere (and whose work you hold equivalent/complementary to the word of God - there is a name for such an act) but you left me no choice.


Go back to point 2

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

1.false...no where is written only quranic hadees is hadees only...first time i am listening from u that qul is a hadees...no other....

2.effect definitely of these dynasties...but it is totally ridiculous to say that they are totally wrong...just like ideality is nature of angel and prophet only...but practically you can achieve 99 % or more...due o 1 or less than 1 % error as by human nature..is it normal to negate 99 % correct..you have full full preperation ..even out of thousands only1 or 2 get 100 out of 100 in maths...not to speak of physics and chemistry...so the student acheiving 98 % is not "acceptable" as a genius because he loses 2 marks...according to yoour hypothesis...what is this....

3.totally wrong ..abdullah ibne amr bin al'as(ra) wrote ahadees in front of prophet(pbuh) and checked by prophet(pbuh) ...sahifa-sadiqa..i think..similarly abu uraira (ra) also did the same thing...propht(pbyh) sent some details of zakat and sadqa not in quran in the written form to mauz bin jabal ansari in sana(yeman) .....and various other texts.....

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

So you telling me you do not pray? If not, how do you pray? (rukoo,sajda..etc)

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

Well now that you know… The whole function of the verses that start with Qul was to instruct the prophet to answer a question word for word to the person who asked it. That IS AUTHENTIC HADITH (saying)… The verse “Obey Allah and obey the messenger” signifies this.

That should be the smoking gun, but do you want to ‘see’ the smoke?

The only thing written down by the scribes was the Quran… the evidence is in the Quran itself.

My prayer is in my actions and in my study of the scripture and implementing it, and in my effort to better myself and to commemorate the name of my Lord… that is Establishment of The Following or Iqaamat-is Salaah. Raka’a means to Become Humble or Strive towards Humility. Sajada means Submission in Complete Adoration. These words describe an attitude, not a physical posture.

Why is it that the five schools of thought have variations in their respective forms of the “Namaaz”, which is erroneously considered Salaat? The so-called books of hadith do not accurately describe the “namaaz” and hence these differences are apparent (and please do not tell me they do, because I have read the ‘sahaih sittah’).

All ‘religions’ have rituals to commemorate their God/Ma’buud. No nation has been punished for lack of rituals according to the Quran, and vice versa. They have been punished for abandoning their humility (commiting Taghuut), for establishing partners with God (commiting Shirk), and for violating human rights.

Re: Question regarding fasting on 12th rabiu-awal

The four schools of thought have differences because the Prophet performed his prayers in various ways. (although not huge differences).

may Allah guide you. Ameen.