question maybe in the wrong forum...

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

…but this is bothering me and I’ve been asking this to several people adn I would like to konw any views here( please serious replies, I’d rather have one serious answer then ten ridiculing ones)

anyway, there is a new Islamic university opned in the area, and I’ve registered there this week, but the problme is it’s mixed. And form what I’ve read and heard so far, haram? Or maqru, whatever. So I’m having second thought about it now. It’s not that I profess to be ‘holy’ or something, becuase I’m not, and before I’ve never given this kind of things any thought before in my life, I’ve always attended mixed schools, you only have mixed schools here. Adn I’ve never cared much for these things before.

But anyway, now that I am thinking about it, would it be really that bad if I would attend it. What if I don’t mix freely with everyone, just stick with girls and I do proper hijab? It’s only half days and I’m dying to learn Arabic, I can only read Quran, I really want to be able to speak and understand ARabic, so I’m really dying to follow some classes. And they teach history of Islam adn there is a class explanation of Quranic verses. I would really really love to join, I know next to nothing about Islam. And especially the Arabic language courses are so appealing! Suppose I really guard hijab, don’t talk to males, unless really necesary, would it really be that bad? Or maybe I could wait more and when all registrations are finished, ask if there are more girls or boys, and if there are more girls, I could still attend?

What’s your (serious) opinion? (almost frightened to ask this here…)

2

Are their lecture halls segregated, as in girls on one side (or back) and guys on the other?

When you say mixed, just what exactly do you mean? Completely mixed, as in men & women are expected to intermingle, or mixed as in men and women within the same building/room but kept separate?

3

Let’s weigh the options…

  1. You have to go to a co-ed education because there are no other options…

  2. If you decide to observe strict purdah and not go for the Hijab, you deprive yourself of great knowledge that you can gain…

  3. According to my knowledge, there has been more emphasis in both the Holy Quran and Ahadith on gaining knowledge and education, not on purdah…I believe there is a difference between purdah and Hijab…After all, people work with Hijab all the time…(Not that I approve of it)

I say go for it full throttle and come out wiser and more literate…:k:

Wallah-O-Aalam…

4

MS, I have no idea, now I think about it, it was stupid of menot tohave asked when I registered! I think probably in same class, because in the administration room, there were working women in hijab as well as males. So I guess that means the classes must be mixed too, I don'tknow abou thte seats though. Darn, I should have asked, maybe I should phone them ask them about it.

Lajawab, I met some girls, Dutch girls actually who later became muslim, (one at age 16!!!), and some of them gave up their job becuase it was mixed job, and then when I think of good muslim women like them, I feel kind of embarrassed and I start wondering if what I want to do is right or wrong, and I'm really doubting myself then!

Difference between purdah and hijab, I didn't think of it that way. I always assumed it was the same thing. So if I understand it correct, purdah means staying home and hijab means covering yourself, right? Or am Imixing things again?

Or maybe I'm making it too complicated again... Oh well, thanks for the replies anyway, much appreciated.

5

agree with Lajawab :k:

6

^^ i agree with u :)

7

go ahead and join.. pretty soon as you start reading and understanding the Qu'ran you'll find your present day eccentricities to be silly and unnecessary and not at all mandated by Allah.

8

it really shud not matter as long as u 'do ur duty properly' and if getting education requires to go thru this then do it and rely on Allah for He knows best the intentions of the hearts....

9

if i were you, i would join, i wear hijab but it doesnt mean you deny the existence of men..
in the Prophet's(saw) time women n men used to pray together,, n if your intentions are right, n the way you handle yourself then theres no big deal in mingling..
(dats just my view)...

10

I think it will be very difficult to argue that just because the university admits both men and women, you should not attend it to learn Arabic and to be able to understand Quran.

Unless we are missing something here, it seems like an open-and-shut case. In any case, you can't go through life totally avoiding any interaction with na-mehram men. You have gotta deal with them in some form or the other. In this particular case, you aim is also a very nobel one, and therefore the answer to your question seems obvious as given above by everyone.

11

The lady who gave the address and teh news of teh new university opening, later sent apologies accompanied with this fatwa. She said she apologised for sending address of a mixed school and that it was not allowed for us to attend and gave the following fatwa, so I got completely mixed up (as if I'm not already mixed up myself already, lol...)

Question:

I am a 16 yr old girl.I recently changed my school.
Please could tou tell me how must i conduct myself in school.The girls to boys ratio is grossly unfair in this school.For eg in my chem class there are nearly 15 boys and only 3 girls!so sometimes when i need help with a ques or have an urgent doubt ihave to callup guys(vvvreluctantly).Moreover, since there are so few girls the guys are so frank with us. i spend about7hrs in school and i guess its not possible to not talk to anyone.Please let me know how should i behave in school .is it ok if i talk to guys or is it better that i not try be friendly with them?.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Your attending a mixed school is haraam according to sharee'ah, because the mixing that you describe is exposing you to moral corruption and may be a means of causing you to commit sin.

In many ahaadeeth, the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned men against the fitnah (temptation) of women, and he indicated that the matter is so serious that their fitnah is the worst of fitnahs and the most harmful thing.

It was narrated from Usaamah ibn Zayd (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "I am not leaving behind me any fitnah more harmful to men than women."

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4808; Muslim 2740

It was narrated from 'Uqbah ibn 'Aamir that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Beware of entering upon women." A man from among the Ansaar said, "O Messenger of Allaah, what about the in-law?' He said, "The in-law is death."

Al-Bukhaari, 4934; Muslim, 2172

Ibn Hajar said, commenting on the first hadeeth:

This hadeeth indicates that the fitnah caused by women is greater than any other fitnah. This is supported by the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"Beautified for men is the love of things they covet; women."

[Aal 'Imraan 3:14]

Allaah described them as being among the things that men covet, and He mentioned them first, before the other things, to indicate that they are the cause of the fitnah. We can see that a man is more inclined to love the children of a woman to whom he is still married than the children of a woman whom he has divorced.

Fath al-Baari, 9/138

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Undoubtedly allowing women to mix freely with men is the basis of all evils. This is one of the greatest causes of punishment coming down upon everyone and of public and private affairs becoming corrupt. Free mixing of men and women is the cause of much immorality and adultery, and it is the cause of general doom and diseases.

.

One of the greatest causes of general doom is the prevalence of adultery because of allowing women to mix freely with men and to walk amongst them making a wanton display of their beauty. If the powers that be knew how much corruption it causes to worldly interests and to people, they would prevent it most vigorously.

Al-Turuq al-Hakamiyyah, p. 408

In the mixing that you describe, it is not possible to lower one's gaze and it provokes women to desire men and vice versa. This is not permissible; rather this is the thing that leads to corruption. If the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade that for his own cousin (son of his paternal uncle) al-Fadl ibn al-'Abbaas, when he was riding with him on his mount and they were performing one of the dearest acts of worship to Allaah, namely the Hajj, when Al-Fadl was in the company of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and at the time of the Sahaabah who were the most pious of people, then how can we allow the women of our own times, when diseases of the heart are widespread and religious commitment is at such a low level, to sit in the same place as men without a mahram, for so many hours every day?

Fear Allaah, my sister, and do not go to this school, no matter how difficult that may be. We will quote to you the hadeeth of al-Fadl referred to above:

It was narrated that 'Abd-Allaah ibn 'Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: Al-Fadl was the riding partner of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). A woman from (the tribe of) Kath'am came, and al-Fadl started looking at her and she started looking at him, so the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) turned al-Fadl's face to the other side. She said, "O Messenger of Allaah, the command of Allaah enjoining Hajj upon His slaves has come when my father is an old man and is not steady on his mount; can I do Hajj on his behalf?" He said, "Yes." That was the Farewell pilgrimage.

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1442; Muslim, 1334.

Ibn 'Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, commenting on this hadeeth:

This hadeeth demonstrates the natural desire for women that is created in human beings, and what may be feared from looking at them. Al-Fadl ibn 'Abbaas was one of the young men of Banu Haashim, and he was the most handsome man of his time, according to what they said.

This also indicates that the ruler must prevent men and women from looking at one another. That includes preventing the women for whom there is no guarantee that they will not cause or be subject to temptation from walking in the streets and marketplaces and places where they can look at men. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "I am not leaving behind me any fitnah more harmful to men than women." And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts)."

[al-Noor 24:31]

This is sufficient for the one who ponders the meanings of the Book of Allaah and is guided to act upon it.

Al-Tamheed, 9/123-124

There is no need for mixing. Studying in this school is not essential; so long as a woman can read and write and knows the teachings of her religion, that is sufficient, because she was created for that, i.e., to worship Allaah. Anything beyond that is not essential.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

I don't know waht to make of this fatwa. She said it was haram going there accoridng to this fatwa. So she's not attending and thinks none of us should.

Talking to my parents yesterday, they said the same things I heard here. Talking to the Islamic women's group inDutchyland, they went with this fatwa.
Anyway, thanks again for the replies, I don't know for sure, but I think I will just attend the classes.

I guess I have a talent for making things more complicated than they are...

12

Should women be posting here?

13

lol, good question actually on a serious note.

We were discussing internet in one of the forums. And it was said chatting shouldn't be done, even if you don't see each other, it's still a female talking to a non-mehram. so they said don't talk to males, even on internet, even if it's polite conversation. Oké, chatting I understand. But forums are public, everyone posts there, your not talking to someone 'alone'. so bla bla bla

Why is everything being made complicated, maybe it's better to invent the time machine and travell back to the days of the Prophet (pbuh) himself....

14

...and the islamic uni would have only two students per class, you and a guy?

15

this is the key-quote!
who says religion HAS to be made complicated? it’s just our (=we, ppl, muslims) delusion that somehow religion has to very complicated and we have to watch every detail in such an extent that we even have to think about whether to step into the bathroom with ur right or left foot :smack:

religion gets complicated if YOU/WE make it complicated, otherwise there’s nothing wrong with it

16

Sadya it's very commendable that living in a non islamic place(am i right? where?) you have developed such a keen interest in the religion and the Arabic language. many never even care and the fact that you do is worth a praise. regarding the mixed schools being 'haram' i have never been able to come to tersm with that stuff. its surprising how many ppl and aalims are so quick in declaring what is haram and whats not but hardly ever tell you whats actuall mentioned in Quarn and Ahadith, and what has been derived by later scholars. as far as my incomplete knowledge goes, i have read and heard about events from during the lifetime of THE Prophet PBUH and his companions boith male and female which confirm that there is no such thing as complete segregation and Purdah as it is known today. The female Sahabas RA even went to the battle fields and looked after injured soldiers. the conducted their own businesses. did they do all that wearing an Abaya from head to toe with even eyes covered? did they live their normal lives being confinned indoors? no! i think in Islam the oncept is only that of knowing one's moral boundaries, religious responsibilities, following Allah's and prophet's PBUH teachings and observing the purdah that is necessary and as far as i know the kind of prdah mentioned in the Quran was for a woman to cover her whole body upto wrists and ankles with reasonable unrevealing , nonshaperevealing clothes. covering the head and hair is also ordered i think but i cant understand the concept of covering ones face with black cloth, wearing black gloves and socks even in the 50 C of a Saudi Arabian summer.
Islam is an easy rel;igion made difficult by our own ignorance and some unlearned ppl who create confusions. the presence of 4 diff sects makes it even worse. so i guess Quran, Sunnah and Ahadith are our true guideline that all muslims are supposed to follow. may we follow the light properly.

17

"it's very commendable that living in a non islamic place(am i right? where?) you have developed such a keen interest in the religion and the Arabic language. many never even care and the fact that you do is worth a praise. "

Actually it's not. :) There are hundreds of students here, who have always been interested, even as teenagers. When I grew up, I had so many possibilites of learning Arabic, there were afternoons for ladies in a former mosque for example where you coudl learn to understand it and speak it, but I was never interested. I waisted a lot of time, I never cared. I can blame myself for that. Anyway, there are so many people, who have always had good faith and interest, while living here, and they are difinitely worth a praise!

I've decided not to go after all, we're shifting to Pakistan anyway, in_sha_Allah, in a year or so, and my Dad says in Pakistan you have one of the best Islamic educations in the world. If I improove my Urdu, I could learn more there in the proper way, in_sha_Allah.
But thanks again for the views.