[quote]
Originally posted by ChannMahi:
**well..marrying outside of caste or clan has been a big thing for most of the groups in the sub-continent...I mean Brahmins or rajput are not very well known for marrying with other people either...since boundaries were so etched in stone anyone who violated it was condemned..hukka paani band. Superiority complex or showing off that kind arrogance is wrong...unfortunately there is fine line between self pride and arrogance and most people don't know when they crossed it.
Also many others show the say arrogance that we are condemning jatts for...I am sure you have heard before how speakers of certain language are of so superior intellect or some brhamins will brag how education is in their blood etc...so when a jatt brags...oh I am so superior I can beat you up...thats not really bragging..I mean that like showing ones stupidity in public..right?
Masooma, so what clan of jatts is your family? BTW there are some clans shared by both Rajputs and Jatts..like Minhas, Tiwanas, Bhattis etc.**
[/quote]
sorry chan ji, i thought this thread waz over, we are randhawa's
well my ammi ji is "ghugh",and my abu ji from "randhawa's"
so im a mixture of both..but basically jatt
**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba...kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH
[This message has been edited by Masooma (edited April 08, 2002).]
and different has said it all…
i agree 100%
but its HARD to explain this to family memebers, u know i think in the true sense, punjabi muslims are the REAL confused ones,like they have made a title “abcd’s”, there should be one for punjabi(specialy jatt),pbcm(punjabi born confused muslims)
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif
i tease my bro/cousins with this…but it suits them right.
**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba…kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH
one point, different
not all punjabi muslims are converts from sikh to muslim,coz there were punjabi hindu's as well, hmmmm from what i hear from my dad....in particular our ancestors, they were sikh coz my dad tells me my dada waz the chaudhry and the whole pind converted to islam,we have our shajra nasab...so we even know their names
its kewl to know all this,not that i consider it an issue,but its good to know who we are and should be proud.
But no one is superior,and marrieges should be decided upon human character and not their caste.
peace
**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba...kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH
How "Jatts" use Islam to Justify their actions.
This is a reply by a Jatt who's cousin wants to marry outside their caste, the names have been edited and it is not made up. The girl's sister had requested a cousin to convince their father, and this is the response of that cousin:
"i agree that one should marry whom they choose but "the girl" is not a small bachii and she should realise that she can change her aspirations for the well-being of her family.mohabbat, infatuation and desire are all transient and can be altered by personal determination......please try to understand "the girl's father" decision, you are asking him to consent to a nonjat let alone an urdu speaking with a very different culture that we will never be able to assimilate. the choice, decision and sacrifice is of "the Girl" whether or not she decides about her family and publically denounces "the Boy" or goes with him and the reality is that she loses ties to the entire family including you and us.
i suggest that you donot support "the boy" and "the girl" and rather oppose her and try to convince her for her sake and have her accept anyone that "the girl's father" chooses for her...
believe me i have seen this many many times in families and analysed it...culture and heartfelt blessing of parents is important and the Prophet PBUH has advised us to marry from amonst ourselves.
will "the girl" be able to answer on the day of judgement that her father was not happy with her let alone that he forsaked her?
i hope that you don't find this too condescending and believe me i am not."
How many girls have been forced into marriages in this way? And we Muslims are just sitting back and waiting for miracles to happen!
These people are spoiling Islam's image just like they spoilt the image of Sikhism. What are we waiting for? Should we ignore things that are happening around us still?
How are we supposed to answer and face Allah, if He asks us that what did we do, to stop these people who use Islam to justify their Un-Islamic actions?
We all will be held responsible, because it is happening in our Society and we are ignoring it.
[This message has been edited by Different (edited April 08, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Different:
**How "Jatts" use Islam to Justify their actions.
This is a reply by a Jatt who's cousin wants to marry outside their caste, the names have been edited and it is not made up. The girl's sister had requested a cousin to convince their father, and this is the response of that cousin:
"i agree that one should marry whom they choose but "the girl" is not a small bachii and she should realise that she can change her aspirations for the well-being of her family.mohabbat, infatuation and desire are all transient and can be altered by personal determination......please try to understand "the girl's father" decision, you are asking him to consent to a nonjat let alone an urdu speaking with a very different culture that we will never be able to assimilate. the choice, decision and sacrifice is of "the Girl" whether or not she decides about her family and publically denounces "the Boy" or goes with him and the reality is that she loses ties to the entire family including you and us.
i suggest that you donot support "the boy" and "the girl" and rather oppose her and try to convince her for her sake and have her accept anyone that "the girl's father" chooses for her...
believe me i have seen this many many times in families and analysed it...culture and heartfelt blessing of parents is important and the Prophet PBUH has advised us to marry from amonst ourselves.
will "the girl" be able to answer on the day of judgement that her father was not happy with her let alone that he forsaked her?
i hope that you don't find this too condescending and believe me i am not."
How many girls have been forced into marriages in this way? And we Muslims are just sitting back and waiting for miracles to happen!
These people are spoiling Islam's image just like they spoilt the image of Sikhism. What are we waiting for? Should we ignore things that are happening around us still?
How are we supposed to answer and face Allah, if He asks us that what did we do stop these people who use Islam to justify their Un-Islamic actions?
We all will be held responsible, because it is happening in our Society and we are ignoring it.**
[/quote]
OMG.....different....u r so right...it seems like u are talking about my family here
do i know u?
:-D
its sad, and i think we as muslims should ATLEAST TRY enlightening our parents and family about what islam is about and how islam implies on such issues.
May Allah help us in doing so :-D
**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba...kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH
and the funny this is,muslim jatt etc, they act all relegious like saying 5 time prayer,reading Quran and telling hadith...but again they say OH WE ARE JATT,OUR SON/DAUGHTER CANNOT MARRY A NON-JATT,OR ELSE WE WOULD NEVER SPEAK WITH HIM/HER AGAIN.
sad...isn't it?
**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba...kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH
I don't necessarily belive that jatt parents are really against marrying outside their caste. But it seems as if the society "bradhri" which are part of looks down upon them.. And it is this shame that drives them to make there kids marry within the caste. Also I think it is rediculuos to bring Islam into this. If the two like each other and there is nothing wrong with the other person "druggie or something" I really dont belive that anyone should object. But rather be happy that there child will have a good life....In my family my brother married to a non-jat although my parents weren't fully happy but they never tried to stop the marriage. And when others were trying to put my brother down on marriage day. They stood firm and as such no one has bugged my brother.
Masooma...wow kewl....see now you are my sister.:)..not really..I mean cousin....my mother is Randhawa. have you heard about Afzal Ahsan Randhawa? I call him my maama with love.
I understand that Muslim jatts don't marry with non-jatts...thats also true about Rajputs, Gujjars, Arains etc. From your above post looks like your parents married out of family. Do muslim jatts marry within family or is it like other(Hindu and Sikh) jatts who don't marry within same goat(family-name)? How strict are they about it?
Look guys...as per our morals and acceptable social standards today, every one has the right to marry anyone he/she wish to marry...there is no ayein baayein about it. What we have been talking in the later part of this thread is as traditions were in the past or still might be in some families...people can diagree with it based on their religious beliefs or their understanding of things otherwise.
Like Badsha said in his bpost above, most parents and families go with the wish of their kids....even if they wanted it otherwise.
[quote]
Originally posted by Masooma:
** OMG.....different....u r so right...it seems like u are talking about my family here
do i know u?
:-D
its sad, and i think we as muslims should ATLEAST TRY enlightening our parents and family about what islam is about and how islam implies on such issues.
May Allah help us in doing so :-D
**
[/quote]
When the young speak about Islam and "try" to enlighten their parents, they usually get the response from everyone that "Islam teaches that you should never dis-obey your parents" over and out!!!
Every one around you discourages you to implement Islam when it is against the wishes of elders, no matter how religious we may portray ourselves to be outwardly.
Its customization of Islam according to our requirements basically. We have chosen parts and we ignore parts!!
If some people or families do have a problem in marrying out of their castes, its up to them, but my only concern is that, "Why do they involve Islam and spoil the image of Islam?"
This is not acceptable! Spoiling the image of Islam is not an issue that can be ignored and left out to be sorted later! It is a serious issue and many people are taking unjust advantage of the silence by the Muslims!
[quote]
Originally posted by Bhadsha:
*I don't necessarily belive that jatt parents are really against marrying outside their caste. But it seems as if the society "bradhri" which are part of looks down upon them.. And it is this shame that drives them to make there kids marry within the caste. Also I think it is rediculuos to bring Islam into this. If the two like each other and there is nothing wrong with the other person "druggie or something" I really dont belive that anyone should object. But rather be happy that there child will have a good life....In my family my brother married to a non-jat although my parents weren't fully happy but they never tried to stop the marriage. And when others were trying to put my brother down on marriage day. They stood firm and as such no one has bugged my brother. *
[/quote]
What shame? What's this about the Society "bradhri" looking down upon?
How do you justify this in Islam? If you claim to be Musli, how do you fit this into Islam? It is in total conflict with Islamic Teachings and Principles.
The whole Muslim Ummah is one brotherhood. Why discriminate? When we cannot be one in one City, how can we be one as a nation? how can we be one as a whole Muslim Ummah?
We talk BIG, we want Khilafah, we want an Islamic State, how is this possible when we are still living like those who lived in the "Days of Ignorance"?
What have we learnt in 1400 hundred years? How much have we implemented in 1400 years?
What is the difference between us and those who had the Book and guidance but did otherwise?
Do Bangladeshi muslims also pracrise this caste system
chan ji fer ta assi ikko bairadri dai hoyai
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
and about that person,no i personally don’t know him,my dad may do so
but which part of pak is he from?
about the marriege within the khandaan,thats not importand,the top most priority is being jatt,my eldest sis got married in bhali jatt fam,and the other one in gondal jatt fam…so its just “being jatt” considered important…my aami is from a pind known as Ghugh and my nana was the chaudhry and their caste in jatt is ghugh also,my dada was from also a pind close to it which was once known as kalash pur,which later waz bought by angraiz people from mypar-dada who owned the whole land and what the chaudhry back then… and waz turned into a huge sheher area…both families knew each other coz both ghaoun were close to each other,so they got their daughter married to my nana,so my naani is also randhava,my dada is randhawa but my daadi waz from diff pind and was mannan…ah man,twisted stories…
oh yea my par-dada still has his name on a brick in a well which was owned by him in kalash pur…which is now the can’tt area
hehehhehehehhehehe these things are funny and interesting,my naani amma told me all this
hmm
diff the things u said about what parents say when being enlightened is soooooooo true
its sad
**Parde ilm hazaar kitaaba…kaddee apnai aap nu parya naee.." **BULLEY SHAH
[quote]
Originally posted by Masooma:
**
diff the things u said about what parents say when being enlightened is soooooooo true
its sad
**
[/quote]
This is the reason, why our Society is so corrupted these days, we are heading towards disaster.
Today it seems that Islam is for selected people in the Society, it favors only those who are in authority.
Reality is that Islam is balanced, everyone has rights, but unfortunately in practice it is totally different.
We have a customized edition and this is why we are criticized.
[quote]
Originally posted by Humanity:
Do Bangladeshi muslims also pracrise this caste system
[/quote]
Yes All muslims in subcontinent practice case system Unfortunately.