Question for Pakistanis inside Pakistan

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Very well said Ambassador1. And to show that what you are saying is from a majority viewpoint - Here are 2 quotes from well known Muslims in UK.

Views of Prominent British Muslims about the Ahmadis.

Iqbal Sacranie, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, had this to say: "Whilst we fully accept the right of Ahmadiyas to their own religion, it is clearly misleading to describe them as Muslims. They are outside the fold of Islam."

His views are endorsed by Lord Nazir Ahmed of Rotherham, who said, "Ahmadiyyas are not Muslims. Therefore calling the religious complex in Morden a mosque hurts the sentiments of those who believe in Mohammed, the last prophet of Islam, peace be upon him."

Born in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, Lord Ahmed is well known among Kashmiri immigrants and Pakistanis.

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Here is the full text of the 1974 Declaration by the World Muslim League: QADIANIS ARE OUT OF THE FOLD OF ISLAM

by Mohammad Bashir.

In the same year, An International Convention of Islamic Scholars was held in Makkah Al-Mukarramah under the auspeces of Rabita Al-Alam Al-Islami. Scholars from 124 countries unanimously declared Qadianis/Ahmadis as non-Muslim, disbelievers and out of the fold of Islam. This sealed the fate of this creed for ever in the Arab World and other Muslim Nations. This is what 'The World Muslim League-An International Convention of Islamic Scholars" had stated:

World Muslim League held its annual conference at Makkah Al-Mukaramma Saudi Arabia from 14th to 18th of Rabiul Awwal 1394 H (April 1974) in which 140 delegations of Muslim countries and organizations from all over the world participated. I (Mohammad Bashir) too was there in this Conference along with the other journalists from all over the world. The Conference unanimously adopted the following Resolution regarding Qadianism.

Qadianism or Ahmadiyyat: It is a subversive movement against Islam and the Muslim world, which falsely and decietfully claims to be an Islamic sect; who under the guise of Islam and for the sake of mundane interests contrives and plans to damage the very foundations of Islam. Its eminent deviations from the basic Islamic principles are as follows:

Its founder claimed that he was a Prophet.

They deliberately distort the meanings of the verses of the Holy Quran.

They declared that Jehad has been abolished.

Qadianism was originally fostered by the British imperialism. Hence it has been flourishing under her flag.

This movement has completely been disloyal to and dishonest in affairs of the Muslim Ummah. Rather, it has been loyal to Imperialism and Zionism.

It has deep associations and cooperation with the anti Islamic forces and teachings especially through the following nefarious methods:

Construction of mosques with the assistance of the anti Islamic forces wherein the misleading Qadiani thoughts are imparted to the people.

Opening of schools institutions and orphanages wherein the people are taught and trained as to how they can be more anti Islamic in their activities. They also published the corrupted versions of the Holy Quran in different local and international languages.

In order to combat these dangers, the Conference recommends the following measures:

All the Muslim organization in the world must keep a vigilant eye on all the activities of Qadianisin their respective countries; to confine them all strictly to their schools, institutions and orphanages only. Moreover he Muslims of the world be shown the true picture of Qadianism and be briefed of their various tactics so that the Muslims of the world be saved from their designs.

They must be declared non Muslims and ousted form the fold of Islam. And be barred to enter the Holy lands.

There must be no dealings with the Qadianis. They must be boycotted socially, economically and culturally Nor they be married with or to Nor they be allowed to be buried in the Muslims graveyards. And they be treated like other non Muslims.
All the Muslim countries must impose restrictions on the activities of the claimant of Prophethood Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani’s followers; must declare them a non Muslim minority must not etrust them them with any post of responsibility in any Muslim country.

The alterations effected by them in the Holy Quran must be made public and the people be briefed of them and all these be prohibited for further publication.
All such groups as are deviators from islam must be treated at par with the Qadianis."

Despite these religious edicts, Ahmadiyya Movement and its followers (ahmadis) continue to pretend to be Muslim and the Champions of Islam, who are admired by the Westerners for their moderate views. The reason for their obstinacy is quite obvious. They are the fifth columnists amongst the Muslims and their so-called islamic identity provide a cover for their clandestine activities while they continue to serve the interests of their masters.

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The law of the land (as it is in Pakistan).

Republic of Pakistan (1974) Declares Qadianis NON-MUSLIM:

Islamic Republic of Pakistan became the first Muslim country to pass a law and legally declared Qadianis/Ahmadis/Mirzais a non-Muslim minority, giving them all the rights of a minority that are guaranteed in its constitution.

In Islamic Pakistan, the original home of the Ahmadis, the following law applies:

Specific government policies that discriminate against religious minorities include the use of the "anti-Ahmadi laws", the blasphemy laws, and the Hudood Ordinances. In 1984, the Government added Section 298(c), commonly referred to as the "anti-Ahmadi laws", to the penal code.

(1) The section PROHIBITS AHMADIS FROM CALLING THEMSELVES MUSLIMS OR
(2) POSING AS MUSLIMS, OR
(3) FROM REFERRING TO THEIR FAITH AS ISLAM, OR
(4) FROM PREACHING OR PROPAGATING THEIR FAITH, or
(5) From inviting others to accept the Ahmadi faith, AND
(6) FROM INSULTING THE RELIGIOUS FEELINGS OF MUSLIMS.
(7) THE BLASPHEMY LAWS PROVIDE THE DEATH PENALTY FOR DEFILING ISLAM OR ITS PROPHETS.
(8) FROM REFERRING TO THEIR PLACE OF WORSHIP AS A MOSQUE.
(9) AHMADIS CANNOT ISSUE THE CALL TO PRAYER AS OTHER ORTHODOX MUSLIMS DO.

Life imprisonment for defiling, damaging, or desecrating the Qur'an; and ten years imprisonment for insulting the religious feelings of any citizen.

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Re: Question for Pakistanis inside Pakistan

shehbaz u know what...it is making me surprised that some of the people even doubt ahmadies being non-Muslims....every religions must has a set of beliefs to be followed or to be believed by the followers of that religion....so ahmadies simply do not fulfill those very authentic rules, not defined by Mullahs or muftiz but by the God n His prophet, to be declared as Muslims.....

However every Muslim must be known about the core reality of Israelis and Ahmedies..... the above mentioned facts n evidences will surely work for some moronic minds...

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if you are full of **** i will tell you exactly that. Go ahead and complain If you want.

Anyone with a brain can see that you are promoting an agenda, especially if they read your recent posts.

Can't find any information on this. How about you give us a reliable source?

Only Ahmadi books were banned from being published, and that was to please your Mullahs, because they didn't stop rioting. Seems like that's the only thing they can do...

I don't know much about how Ahmadis are treated in Iran, if there are any at all. But what I do know is that Sunnis are regarded as people who practice a religion which isn't complete yet. So anyone other than Shia Muslims are practicing an incomplete religion according to them.

Same as with Bangladesh, your Mullahs didn't stop rioting and burning down Ahmadi Mosques. Indonesia chose the easier way out of this Problem by pleasing the Mullahs.

Ahmadiyyat is NOT banned in Indonesia like it is in Pakistan though.

Apparantly they didn't just declare Ahmadis non-Muslim out of the blue, but it was after they have debated with the Third Khalifa of the Ahmadis for about 30 hours straight and "proved him wrong in every way". The question now is, why don't they publish the transcript from this debate? Why don't they name the Mullahs who participated in this meeting? What are they afraid of?

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I already told you that these are very ill-directed attempt to malign a very noble scientist and pride of Pakistan. The agencies were trying hard to get hold of real players of the game through Dr. Salam, who was actually not even a player himself. Not even a part of game at all. He himself stepped aside in the begining because of his ideology of peaceful development. He was a patriot who offered all money he recieved after winning Nobel prize for constructing peaceful research facility in Pakistan. His offer was thrown in dust bin by the dictator of Pakistan because pakistan was in no mood for ‘Peaceful research’ back then.

Mindyou Making the bomb in Pakistan was NOT a piece of cake. We had to go through some back doors and use many illegal connections. It was neccesity for our survival. We did not make this dirty bomb to win a trophy. It was made just to stay alive on the map of this world.

**

Dawn : Friday, June 18, 2010

Here is a very interesting twist in the story too.

One of The most powerful Agency of the world even help Pakistan in those days :slight_smile: I let you guess the name :wink: and also, I can provide source of this information if you need :chai:

Now i request you to please find the pages in this book where along with S.A.Butt the writer has also mentioned the Role of ‘Seth Abid’ :slight_smile: and post the images here. I will consider it authentic only after reading these pages otherwise you may keep the book in your library but for me its just a hogwash.

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Re: Question for Pakistanis inside Pakistan

@KHAN SAHIB

Dil ko behlane ke liye Ghalib ye khiyal acha hai........

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Thanks for your input dude.

I can’t believe some people can steep as low as Shahbaz to defame the legacy of an honorable man. All that just to justify their hatred against Ahmadis. And he wants to tell us that he doesn’t have an agenda. LOL

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lol..so true.

Such a retarded thread.

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A bit off topic, but if you wish to get to the bottom about it- Then here it is! Seth Abid as we all know was nothing but a smokescreen, a diversion (designed to throw our enemies off track). In fact all the things that people give him credit for, were actually done by S. A. Butt, and Dr. Alam - And I think no official has ever admitted Seth Abid’s link to our program. It’s all nothing but hearsay. The real story can be found in these pages:




And as regards Dr. Abdus Salam’s treachery, well this page will show how he was prepared to let Israeli scientists enter the country. But when the project was shot down on this very issue - Dr. Salam eventually left Pakistan and built the center in Italy (where Israeli scientists are today welcomed with open arms)…

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Well I too detect a lot of Ahmadis and Ahmadi sympathizers over here. But it doesn’t really matter. As I have proven that they are linked with Israelis, have also proven that that have been declared to be outside the fold of Islam. And they have also been banished from other Muslim countries. Plus, calling them Muslim - is in fact a crime under Pakistani law (which also I have proven)!

And now, to prove my point that they are non-Muslims. Here is a picture of their holy book! Yes, I have obtained it just now - It wasn’t easy (as no Ahmadi will ever part with it), still I have it now! Anyway, I cannot take all the credit for it. As it was one of my office juniors whom I had put on the task. Amazingly he delivered (and that too on a Sunday)!!!

Anyway, if there was any doubt in anyone’s mind that Ahmadis were Muslims - Then this should open everyone’s eyes, as no Muslim will ever write this on the Quran. Which is why I call it the Ahmadi holy book, not the Quran - I mean I just opened the first page - and I see this blasphemy! Calling Mirza Al-Masi Al-Sani, is in direct violation of the Islamic code…

As they used to say in the X-Files TV show - The truth is out there… And if it wasn’t, then it sure is now (because of me)!
:omg:

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Re: Question for Pakistanis inside Pakistan

So in short, Ahmadis are non-Muslim and also traitors to Pakistan who are doing the work of the Dajjal, Israel. So it's OK for us Pakistani to hate them and sometimes even go as far as to kill them. Thanks for opening my eyes Shahbaz.

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It is already written in the Quran that we will (from time to time) face such people (read below). But as regards killing them on sight - Well, the Pakistani nation has never done anything like that. What the German Nazis did to the Jews in WW2, and how the Americans also rounded up their own citizens of Japanese decent (at the same time period)... We haven't done that have we? If we do, then you will have a right to complain.

Taken from the English translation of the Quran (translated and explained by Allama Muhammed Asad).

**Surah: AL IMRAN (The House Of Imran).
Verse 118 to 120:

" (118) O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take for your
bosom-friends people who are not of your kind. They spare no effort to
corrupt you; they would love to see you in distress. Vehement hatred
has already come into the open from out of their mouths, but what
their hearts conceal is yet worse. We have indeed made the signs
[thereof] clear to you, if you would but use your reason.

(119) Lo! It is you who [are prepared to] love them, but they will not
love you, although you believe in all of the revelation. And when they
meet you, they assert, "We believe [as you believe]"; but when they
find themselves alone, they gnaw their fingers in rage against you.

Say: "Perish in your rage! Behold, God has full knowledge of what is
in the hearts [of men]!"

(120) If good fortune comes to you, it grieves them; and if evil
befalls you, they rejoice in it. But if you are patient in adversity
and conscoius of God, their guile cannot harm you at all: for, verily,
God encompasses [with His might] all that they do.**

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What exactly did happen in Bangladesh? Oh and what happened to Ahmadis in 1953 was not sponsored by the Punjab government at all, was it? LOL The Punjab government isn't encouraging hatred against Ahmadis today either, right?

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Re: Question for Pakistanis inside Pakistan

who hate Ahamdies among u guys? do u ??????????not me n i guess no one else in pak atleast?as i have an Ahmadi girl as my room mate and many ahmdies as my class mates....same with my many other fellows.did not see a single one treating them bad..even we live together, study together and make fun together.. so to
consider them as non-Muslim is to hate them......woaaaa

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Re: Question for Pakistanis inside Pakistan

i really have not seen such a great passion by the same people in the posts to condemn attacks at Muslims...lolz

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[quote=“Shahbaz_Hasan”]

Well I too detect a lot of Ahmadis and Ahmadi sympathizers over here. But it doesn’t really matter. As I have proven that they are linked with Israelis, have also proven that that have been declared to be outside the fold of Islam. And they have also been banished from other Muslim countries. Plus, calling them Muslim - is in fact a crime under Pakistani law (which also I have proven)!

i hope no one would challenge the country law

And now, to prove my point that they are non-Muslims. Here is a picture of their holy book! Yes, I have obtained it just now - It wasn’t easy (as no Ahmadi will ever part with it), still I have it now! Anyway, I cannot take all the credit for it. As it was one of my office juniors whom I had put on the task. Amazingly he delivered (and that too on a Sunday)!!!

Anyway, if there was any doubt in anyone’s mind that Ahmadis were Muslims - Then this should open everyone’s eyes, as no Muslim will ever write this on the Quran. Which is why I call it the Ahmadi holy book, not the Quran - I mean I just opened the first page - and I see this blasphemy! Calling Mirza Al-Masi Al-Sani, is in direct violation of the Islamic code…

**
so some of u guys still doubt it?**

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Re: Question for Pakistanis inside Pakistan

Qadiyani Holy Book? Your lies are getting bigger and bigger. LOL I have been able to make many Ahmadi friends over the last year and I have also seen the Quran that they recite. And all I can say is that Shahbaz is one of the biggest liars on this forum.

And the picture you posted is a proof? I can produce such a proof with your name under it. Lanat on the people who have made that picture to spread lies.

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It says Khalifatul Massih. It also says Az not Arz

As for your comment prior to that picture:
alislam[dot]org/quran/

i can't post links on this forum yet*

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actually, I believe that was the first insult I had to endure in this thread

Indeed, there are very few precious people like me... and they get called 'things' for existing as you can see in this thread. What's my percentage in Pakistan society? 1%? 2%? all others are hypocrite bigoted sunnis who are programmed to repeat the same bs over and over again. "I am right, you are wrong."

All I asked were veeeeeery simple question that could be answered in yes or no, but nobody answered the actual questions, but just jumped at me for raising voice against violence on Ahmadies who for your kind information are no different humans than yourself

All I ask for is a peaceful Pakistan where race and ethnic background doesn't decide your expected lifespan. This problem EXISTS, and the fact that you're trying to hide it is pathetic... just like Ambassador1 who I'm about to quote

THANK YOU!AWESOMENESS! THIS PERSON RIGHT HERE, IS THE ONLY ONE I'VE MET IN THIS THREAD WHO HAS GOTTEN STRAIGHT TO THE POINT AND GIVEN HIS OPINION, EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. THIS MUST BE THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS AT LEAST THE AVERAGE 100 OR HIGHER IQ.

It was THIS simple to deal with this thread, yet I see people taking out guns and swords and telling me SHUT UP, WE ARE PEACEFUL

Looking at the diplomacy and politeness of members here, I'm simply embarrassed to have fellow countrymen and women like these

That was put there just as an act of politeness which most people are missing here. I soon got to the point, which was that you were not on the point, do you get the point? I appreciated your effort, not the content.

did this rude little chipmunk just call itself human? :s

there. tit for tat. I'm not here for this bs but I'm being forced into it. I want intelligent humans making a single post stating their opinion. That's friggin IT! personal attacks on me only show that I touched a 'دکھتی رگ' by opening this thread. or that I raised an issue about which most members seem to be very insecure. These reactions only show lack of self-control and education which are responsible for heinous crimes against Ahmadis in the first place. ^_^ Thank you for being a demonstration in my presentation.