Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
there is absolutely no differenece between ahmadis and non-ahmadis…except that ahmadi believe that the massiah has come whereas non-ahmadis dont.. thats all… Ahmadis can marry anyone they want if he/she is not their bro/sister
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
May Allah help u finding the right path and may Allah help u taking out the hate that u have in ur heart for Ahmadis Aamin
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
I don’t have any hate…
All I am saying is that they are not Muslims…
By me saying oh, they might be Muslims or oh yes, well, yeah, they are Muslims, help?
They are non-Muslims with their own prophet called Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyan…They follow his teachings…
So if tomorrow, the Rastafari, who also happens to read the Quran and believe in the Holy Prophet :saw: and believe the Haile Selassie to be divinely inspired, say that he is a Muslim, should we accept him as such?
No…Islam has some very simple and basic Aqaaids (tenets), that if broken throws you out of Islam…
If I agree to Ahmedis being Muslims, then I am accepting their deviation and makes me one of them…
So I say no…They are not Muslims and never will be…
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
itni see baat unn logoN kee moTi aqal maiN naa jaanaY kiouN naheeN beTh-tee jo ‘only ALLAH is the judge’ kaa raag alaaptaY haiN aur phir kehtaY haiN kay make use of brain and logic Allah has given.
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
first of all …we have the same as u known as our beloved Hazrat Akdas Muhammad saw… and if ure muslim u shud know that there is a Massiah who who had to come on 14th century.. we say that he has come with his true claims.
Secondly, we follow the teaching of Hazrat Muhammad PBUH before hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS. Infact, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has never said anything that goes against what Hazrat Muhammad Saw said.
Third of all, if u call ahmadis who follow the same Quran , prays the way u do, believes in Allah’s angel, perform hajj , give charity…if hes a non-muslim for u, then i guess YOU ARE TOO !
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
but lets get back to the topic here, before mods close the thread.
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
FrozenFire…
I believe you are an intelligent person with a good heart and a desire for learning…
Think about this…What is the Mahdi supposed to do? During his life he is to correct the deviations in Islam and not declare himself a prophet…And you should know that the Mahdi will correct Islam to its original form, not distort it with insults, deviances, corruptions and self-made stories…
This law bearing and non-law bearing prophet theory is a croc…
Mohammed Mustafa :saw: is the last Prophet of Allah :swt:, and if you doubt this statement then you are a non-Muslim…
The Quran and the Sunnah demand it, and if you disregard them then you are misguided…
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
Difference between Messiah and Messenger. If you are Muslim, you believe Muhammad (PBUH) is the last messenger of God. In your case you have an imposter Mirza, and his revelation. Therefore Qadyanis violate the very basics. End of discussion.
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
Solid Reference for 14th century??? and what true claims?
against Muhammad:saw:? Bhai: he even talked against Quran and declared Jihad to be unIslamic
every thing is nulified once you believe any prophet after Muhammad:saw:
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
Hazrat Ali bin Umar Albaghdadi Ad-Darqutni, an eminent authority on Hadees, who lived from 918 to 995 of Christian Era (306 to 385 Hijri), had recorded of the following Hadees narrated by Hazrat Imam Baqar Muhammad bin Ali, son of Hazrat Imam Zainul Abedeen (may Allah have mercy on them):
“For Our Mahdi there are two Signs which have never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely, the moon will be eclipsed on the first night in Ramazan (i.e. on the first of the nights on which a lunar eclipse can occur) and the sun will be eclipsed on the middle day (i.e.; on the middle one of the days on which a solar eclipse can occur), and these Signs have not appeared since God created the heavens and the earth.”
( Sunan Darqutni, kitabul eidain, chapter: salat-ul-kasoof-ul khasoof wa haitahuma)
These Signs are mentioned in the collections of Hadees of both Sunni and Shia sects. Eminent Muslim scholars have been quoting these Signs in their books. This prophecy is recorded in several sacred books, some of them are mentioned below.
Fatawa Hadisiya by Allama Sheikh Ahmad Shahabuddin Ibn Hijrul Haismi.
Ikmal-ud-din
Beharul Anwar
Hejajul Kirama by Nawab Siddeeq Hassan Khan
Maktoobaat-e-Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf-e-Sani
Qiyamat Nama Farsi by Hazrat Shah Rafeeuddin Muhaddis of Delhi
Aqaedul Islam by Maulana Abdul Haq Muhaddis of Delhi
Iqtirabus Saa’t by Nawab Sideeq Hassan Khan
Ahwalul Akhirat by Hafiz Muhammad of Lakhoke. etc.
The Hadees is strengthened by the fact that the Holy Quran mentions eclipses as important Signs of the approach of Resurrection. The Holy Quran says:
“And the moon is eclipsed. And the sun and the moon are brought together.” (Al-Qiyamah 75:9-10)
The root of the prophecy thus lies in the Holy Quran and the Hadees elucidates the verses of the Holy Quran and gives valuable details.
In the New Testament, Jesus, peace be on him, narrating the Signs of his second coming said:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.” (Matthew 24:29)
Mahatma Surdasji has mentioned the prophecy that when Kalki Autar would appear, the moon and the sun would be eclipsed. He wrote:
“Both the moon and the sun will be eclipsed and there will be much violence and death.”
In the holy book of the Sikhs,Sri Guru Garanth Sahib, it is written:
“When Maharaj will come as Nahkalank, the sun and the moon will be his helpers.”
In short, books of other religions also mention of the Signs of the sun and the moon. In the Hadees of Darqutni, quoted earlier, much detail is given, which we shall discuss subsequently.
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
This is hopeless.
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
Mirza Ghulam himself had written:"One Hadith of Dar-e-Qatni also proves that the Promised Mahdi will appear at the head of 14th Century; and that hadith is this …translation of the whole hadith is: ‘There are two signs of our Mahdi; since the creation of earth and heaven this sign has not been revealed for any appointed and prophet and messenger; and those signs are that moon will eclipse in the first night of its fixed nights of eclipse and sun will get eclipsed in the middle of the fixed days for its eclipse, during the month of Ramadhan.’
…this hadith clearly fixes 14th Century." (Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 331)
However, the actual *hadith *recorded in Dar-e-Qatni clearly reads:Narrated Amr son of Shamir, quoting Jabir, who quoted Mohammad bin 'Ali: “For our Mahdi, two signs are given which never occurred in the past from the creation of the heavens and the earth. One is that a lunar eclipse will occur on the first night of Ramadhan and the second sign is that a solar eclipse will occur in the middle of Ramadhan and these signs had never happened from the creation of the heavens and the earth.” (*Dar-e-Qatni, *Vol. 1, P. 188)
With regard to this hadith, we need to make the following observations:
This hadith is not a saying of hazrat Muhammad(SAW), as the Qadiani leadership has tried to portray, but it is a saying attributed to an individual by the name of Mohammed bin 'Ali. Thus, once more the falsehood of Qadiani leadership becomes apparent. According to an authentic hadith of hazrat Muhammad(SAW):
Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire.
(Hadith Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 378)
This hadith attributed to Mohammad bin 'Ali has been rejected by scholars of hadith for centuries. In fact, the first narrator of this *hadith *is Amr bin Shamir who is a known narrator of weak and fabricated Ahadith. Allamah Shamsuddin Dhahbi(RA) who was an expert of the Funn-e-Rijaal (the art of Men Narrators) has written:“According to its authenticity, this saying attributed to Imam Baqir is extremely weak, outcast, and rejected. Looking at the chain of narration, the first narrator is Amr bin Shamir who has been labeled (in Meezanul-E’tidaal, P. 262) as the big liar, a narrator of weak and fabricated Ahadith, a non-believer of Hadith, a person who used abusive words for the companions of the Messenger(SAW) and the Sahabah(RA); and according to Ilm-ul-Hadith, his narration is not written as Hadith.”
Amr bin Shamir had claimed to have heard this hadith from a person by the name of Jabir. Not only we can not trust this assertion of a known liar, but also Amr failed to disclose – perhaps purposely – which one of the many Jabirs he was referring to in this quote. Nevertheless, among the individuals by that name, we find Jabir Ja’fi, who was described by Imam Abu-Hanifah(RA):“Among the liars that I met, no one was bigger liar than Jabir Ja’fi.”
Amr bin Shamir finally claims that this hadith was originally narrated by Mohammad bin 'Ali. Qadianis assert that the Mohammad bin 'Ali mentioned must have been Imam Baqir. However, we have had several narrators with this name and there is no proof or reason to believe that the person Amr intended was Imam Baqir. Indeed, since it was the habit of Amr bin Shamir to narrate weak and fabricated Ahadith and attribute them to well known, truthful, and trustworthy narrators, we are obligated to be very doubtful of this hadith.
The lunar and solar eclipses Qadianis advance as the proof of their claim occurred on the 13th and 28th day of Ramadhan respectively! It is then obvious that Mirza Ghulam, as was his habit, purposely changed the quote (by adding the words “of its fixed nights”) and twisted the true meaning of the *hadith *to lend appearance of legitimacy to his false claim. Furthermore, the *hadith *clearly states that this event has never occurred in the history, while the combination of eclipses on 13th and 28th of Ramadhan have occurred thousands of times throughout history.
Obviously, Qadiani leadership’s complete reliance on an unauthentic and misinterpreted saying of a person by the name of Mohammad bin 'Ali proves that they have nothing but deceit on their side.
The False Argument of Qadiani (Ahmadi) Leadership
Refuted by Muslim scholars and contradicted the by an extensive body of scientific evidence, Mirza Ghulam and the Qadiani (Ahmadi) leadership acknowledged that according to the divine laws the lunar eclipse always occurs on 13th, 14th or 15th of a lunar month, and solar eclipse always occurs on 27th, 28th, or 29th of a lunar month. However, they advanced another baseless argument to misguide the uninformed.
They reasoned that by “first night of Ramadhan”, the *hadith *must have intended that first night a lunar eclipse could possibly occur (i.e. 13th); and by “middle of Ramadhan”, the hadith must have meant the middle night a solar eclipse could possibly occur (i.e. 28th)! Thus, they tried to justify the conclusion of their Sire, Mirza Ghulam, and claim that Mirza must have been Mahdi, since such an eclipse occurred during his life time!
With regard to this assertion, we need to make the following observations:
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
I shall now discuss how the prophecy of the Hadees was fulfilled.
"Allah bless thee O Ahmad. It was not thou who didst throw but it was Allah Who did throw. The Most Gracious One has taught thee the Quran so that thou shouldst warn the people whose ancestors have not been warned and that the way of the guilty ones might become manifest. Proclaim; I have been commissioned and I am the first of the believers." (Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya, vol. 3)
He also received the following revelation:
"Tell them I have with me testimony from Allah, then will you believe? Tell them I have with me testimony from Allah, then will you submit?" (Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya, vol. 3)
In obedience to Divine command he declared that he is the Mujaddid (Reformer) of the 14th century of the Islamic era. Later on the 23rd of March 1889, under Divine command, he took the first oath of allegiance at Ludhiana and thus formed the Ahmadiyya Community. Hazrat Al-Haj Hafiz Maulvi Hakim Nooruddin, .... who later became his First Successor, had the honour to be the first person to take the oath of allegiance. On the same day, forty persons swore allegiance to the Promised Messiah and Mahdi, peace be on him, and solemnly promised that they would give priority to religion over worldly affairs.
Towards the end of 1890 C.E Almighty Allah revealed to him that Prophet Jesus, peace be on him, had died and the prophecy of his second advent was to be fulfilled by a person like Jesus, and that he was the Promised Messiah. Among the revelations, which he received to this effect, was the following:
"The Messiah, son of Mary, prophet of Allah, had died and in his attribute thou hast come in accordance with the promise. And the promise of Allah was bound to be fulfilled." [Tazkirah, revelations of the Promised Messiah, peace be on him]
After receiving this explanation from Almighty God, Hazrat Ahmad, peace be on him, claimed in 1891 to be the promised Messiah and Mahdi whose advent as prophesied by the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Hazrat Ahmad, peace be on him, also gave arguments in support of his claim and wrote books, Fatah-Islam (Victory of Islam), Tauzih-Maram (Explanation of Objectives) and Izalai-Auham (Removal of Suspicions). He asserted that Almighty God had sent him to give spiritual life to the people. The contemporary theologians rejected his claims and he met a storm of very violent opposition.
In his book Noorul Haq (Light of Truth) Part I, written in Arabic and published in early 1894, Hazrat Ahmad, the Promised Mahdi, peace be on him, made the following humble supplications:
Translation:
"Judge between us and our people with justice for Thou are the Best of those who judge. O God! Please send thy succour for me from the heaven and help Thy servant in the time of adversity" [Roohani Khazain vol. 8, p. 6]
Among the objection raised against him was also the one that the prophecy pertaining to the eclipses of the sun and moon has not been fulfilled. Then Almighty God manifested this heavenly Sign in the year 1311 Hijri (1894 C.E) when the lunar and solar eclipses occurred over Qadian on the specified dates of Ramazan in fulfillment of the grand prophecy of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. The lunar eclipse occurred after sunset on the 13th of Ramazan (March 21, 1894) and the solar eclipse occurred on Friday, the 28th of Ramazan (April 6, 1894). Apart from the almanacs, there was mention of the eclipses in the Indian newspapers of the time Azad and Civil and Military Gazette. Even now, the dates (of the Christian era) for these eclipses can be confirmed from Oppolzer’s Canon of Eclipses by Prof. T. R Von Oppolzer, Dover Publications New York, 1962. And Nautical Almanac, London of 1894. The calculations based on the position of the moon show that the lunar dates of the eclipses correspond to the 13th and the 28th of Ramazan
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
solid reference required please
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
[quote=“Anwaar Qureshi”]
However, the actual *hadith *recorded in Dar-e-Qatni clearly reads:[indent]Narrated Amr son of Shamir, quoting Jabir, who quoted Mohammad bin 'Ali: “For our Mahdi, two signs are given which never occurred in the past from the creation of the heavens and the earth. One is that a lunar eclipse will occur on the first night of Ramadhan and the second sign is that a solar eclipse will occur in the middle of Ramadhan and these signs had never happened from the creation of the heavens and the earth.” (*Dar-e-Qatni, *Vol. 1, P. 188)
QUOTE]
this sure has happened when promissed Massiah claims to be the true massiah ..
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
will you mind looking at the chart on the site I posted. If your logic is taken then there are atleast 5 more Mehdies who came in:
Saleh bin Tarif Burghwati
Mirza Ali Muhammad Bab
Hussain Ali Bahaullah
Mahdi Sudani
Dr. Alexander Dowie, USA
Do YOU believe them?
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
u know there is a promissed from Allah that if there is anyone who claims of his false prophesy dies very badly..
Guess what happened to alexander Dowie when he claimed to be massiah…and at the same time Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed too…Mirza AS send a challenge and said to him that we both will pray and the false person will die in another person’s life…and at that time hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was abt 70 ( i guess ) and he was in 50’s…but the main point is there was too much age difference. Literally we can say the older man will die but what happened was absolutely different…its even impossible for me to tell me how alexander dowie died in USA
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
care mentioning how Mirza Ghulam died?
Re: Question for all the Qadiyani peoples over here
Here ill clarify a little more furthure ..
"Dowie Challenged"
"Far far away-India, comes a printed circular from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who writes from Qadian in the Punjab. He has issued a challenge to Elijah III (Dowie) to make his prediction, but so far Zion City's own and special Messiah has failed to reply. In support of his claim, the Indian Messiah declares that when the Lord saw how badly things were being managed on earth, He raised him in the land of Punjab for His works are wonderful."
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was further quoted as saying:
"I am the true Messiah who was to come in the last ages. This has Almighty spoken to me. I do not claim to be the Promised Messiah by my own assertion, but Almighty God, who made the earth and heaven, has borne witness to the truth of my claim. The evidence of God has passed His grace on me in far greater abundance than upon the Messiah who has gone before me. In the looking glass of my person, the face of God is revealed to a far greater extent than in that of Jesus' person. If these simply are my own words and there is no authority for them, then I am a liar; but Almighty God bears witness to my truth. No one can give lie to me. Thousands of times, I should say, times without number, has He borne witness to the truth of my claim. A sign of evidence of God in my favor will appear in the death of Mr. Piggot -- the arrogant pretender to divinity, who shall be brought to destruction within my life time. Another sign will appear on Dr. Dowie's acceptance of my challenge. If the pretender of Elijahship shows his willingness by any direct or indirect means to enter the lists against me, he shall leave the world before my eyes with great sorrow and torment. These two signs are for Europe and America."
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad emerged victorious in this historic prayer duel. It was left to an American newspaper to acknowledge this historic event. The Truth Seeker, another leading American Journal, referred to the clear victory of Ahmad in its issue of June 15, 1907. In an editorial captioned The War of the Prophets, it said:
"Dowie called Muhammad (Holy Prophet) as king of impostors. He not only prophesied that Islam will meet its destruction at the hands of Zion, but he used to pray daily that the crescent is wiped out from the surface of the earth. When the news of the prophecy reached the Indian Messiah, then he challenged the Elijah and invited him to join him in a prayer-duel that whosoever is the liar should die in the lifetime of the true Messiah.
Qadiani Messiah prophesied that if Dowie accepted the challenge, he would die in his (Ahmad's) life time with great disgrace and adversity. And even if he did not accept his challenge, even then his end is drawing close and death will overtake him. His Zion City will meet a great fall. This indeed was a great prophecy that Zion will fall on bad days and Dowie will die in his lifetime. This was dangerous assertion on the part of the Promised Messiah that he should challenge the Elijah the second in the contest of a long age, especially when the challenger himself is about fifteen years older than Dowie and had many diseases.
Foreword
The Fate of a False Prophet unfolds a classical tale where truth was successful against falsehood with all its false promises and false claims. The prayer-duel between Ahmad, the Promised Messiah (who fulfilled the predictions regarding the Second Advent of Jesus) and Dr. Dowie, was not a casual contest between two unknown claimants. It was a great media event in the USA from 1902 to 1907. The tragic death of Dr. Dowie from acute paralysis in 1907, proved beyond doubt that Divine Hand had intervened in favor of Islam and it was but a fit ending for the erroneous Christian doctrine of the God-head of Jesus.
It was a great sign for the Americans who witnessed this miracle with awe and reverence. It is, therefore, only fit and proper that God-fearing and righteous among the people of this country, take heed and listen to the call of Ahmad, the Promised Messiah; so that the blessings of the Al-Mighty should be with them forever.
Washington DC Sheikh Mubarak Ahmad Feb. 18, 1985