Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

Society Religion & Philosophy
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As Salam Alaykum dear Sisters and Brothers.

This is what I found in the net:

*Abdullah bin Amar (RA) relates that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said “Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one.” The companions asked, ‘Who are they O Messenger of Allah,’ Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “They are those who will be like me and my companions.”
*
I want to talk about the bold part.

The Messenger (saw) of Allah (swt) says "my people" will be divided into 73 sections. How are Ahmadis considered or declared non-muslim when Ahmadis are people of Muhammad (saw), too?

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

Peace Bigboi

The hadith quoted by you is authentic and is the true reflection of the state of Muslims in the present era. The Ummah of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is fractured and divided into sects and factions each happy and content with itself.

All the above sects and factions will disagree among themselves on many issues but all agree on the fundamental belief that the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is the last and final Prophet of Allah Almighty and that there will be no prophet in any form after him.

If you search the Net you will find the following too.

If you pay attention to the Last Sermon of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) you will notice that he had many important matters to advice his Ummah about.

He had warned his Ummah that no prophet or apostle will come after him

The Final Sermon:

After praising, and thanking God, the Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, said "O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore, listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.

*"O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. God has Judged that there shall be no interest, and that all the interest due to Al-Abbas ibn Abd’el Muttalib shall henceforth be waived...

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under a trust from God and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship God, perform your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadan, and offer Zakat. Perform Hajj if you have the means.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; a white has no superiority over a black, nor does a black have any superiority over a white; [none have superiority over another] except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before God and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and it may be that the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people."*

Thus the beloved Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) completed his Final Sermon, and upon it, near the summit of Arafat, the revelation came down:

"…This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My Grace upon you, and have chosen Islam for you as your religion…" (Quran 5:3)

I am quoting a few ahadith from hundreds on the subject of the finality the Prophet Hood of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets. ** (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Tirmidhi, Musnad Abu Dawud)**

Allah Almighty has bestowed upon me six favors which the former Prophets did not enjoy:
• I have been endowed with the gift of pithy and perfect speech.
• I was granted victory owing to my awe.
• The spoils of war were made lawful unto me.
• The whole earth has been made the place of worship for me and it has become the means of purification for me also. In other words, in my religion, offering of prayers is not confined to certain specified places of worship. Prayers can be offered at any place over the earth. And in case water is not available, it is lawful for my people to perform ablutions with earth (Tayammum) and to cleanse themselves with the soil, if water for bathing is scarce.
• I have been sent by Allah to carry His Divine message to the whole world.

• And the line of prophets has come to its final end in me. (Sahih Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah)

I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time. And I am the last in the sense that no prophet shall succeed me. (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Tirmidhi,)

The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me. (Sahih Bukhari)

I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. There will be no prophet after me. (Musnad Ahmad)

God Almighty hath sent unto the world no apostle who did not warn his people about the appearance of Dajjal (Anti-Christ, but Dajjal did not appear in their time). I am the last in the line of Prophets and you are the last community of believers. Without doubt, then, Dajjal shall appear from amongst you. (Ibn Majah)

The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had warned that there will be 30 imposters and liars claiming prophet hood for themselves.

There will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Prophet will come **after me. (Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi**)

**Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani **laid the claim to prophet hood besides other claims about himself.

Thus he has opted himself out of the Ummah of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

Those who attest to his claims and accept him as a prophet in any form have opted themselves out of Ummah of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and have thus become the Ummah of the imposter Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani

So my friend Bigboi the hadith quoted by you is not does not apply to the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

Thank You. I believe to be a Muslim, though. I'm an proud Ahmadi Muslim and it fills my Heart with joy to be able to pray, recite Qur'an etc. I don't care what others say. I don't want a discussion. Thank You.

Mods you can close the Topic.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

^ You are most welcome. It is your fundamental right to believe what you like and be content with it. I second you that the thread should be closed as there is nothing more to discuss.

Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- **each party rejoicing in that which is with itself! Surah Al Rum (The Romans) verse 32

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

I suggest you find few religious people, from different faiths, who are not_orthodox_muslims.
Talk to them about their faith and its bases, as a intellectual exercise.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

I'd just like to point out from the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah point of view because that is usually unlikely to be shared but it makes shariah sense

That The Belief on Khatam un Nabiyyin [end of Prophethood] necessitates that accepting some one as a prophet who claims prophethood is a long way off, to accept him as messiah or mahdi is a long way off. He who accepts him as a muslim is a disbeliever [kaffir]

The man that opened this avenue, by saying khatam un nabiyyin would not be effected by another prophet being born, was also declared a disbeliever because The Quran verse means end of prophethood, and it is a basic fundamental belief.

So even without believing a person who claims prophethood as a muslim, but denying Khatam un Nabiyyin means end of prophethood is actually a disbeliever for denying The Quranic Verse

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

sorry for bumping this but...

If everyone is a Muslim, and you are encouraging an all welcoming approach why call yourself an Ahmadi Muslim? Call yourself Just Muslim, surely

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

^ Who is "just" a Muslim now-a-days? you yourself have so many divisions among yourselves and feel proud to be a part that division then why raise that question?

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Advance apologies for my ignorance, but I am little confused about the Ahmedi belief. Is Mirza Sahab considered a standalone prophet, or is that descent of Hazrat Isa in the form of Mirza Sahab?

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

The problem with "Muslims" these days, is that they are more concerned with who is or isnt a Muslim, then they are with actually practicing Islam and their on spiritual growth. Spiritual growth is great but lets first decide who isnt one of us! Sounds rather absurd to me.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

It's funny and kinda weird but I am not proud or overly confident in my Islamic position ... I have arrived here as a matter of course adjusting myself based on what has been presented to the best of my ability and I hope it is enough for Allah (SWT) to accept me.

In my experience with sects there are those that are clearly so different from other sects that it is obvious they are not part of that golden chain ... Then other groups are harder to work out and some things they say is right and others not so right and so on until you get to even the finest of differences ...

The conclusion I have arrived at is that one saved group which is 1 of 73 is in fact a majority of something like 85% and the remainder 72 sects occupy that last 15% ... Or perhaps even more significant than this ... And the majority group is thus formed by finding the largest collective super grouping where each group within it accepts the Islam of the neighbouring group ... Just like Hananfis, Sha'fis, Hanbalis and Malikis - they tend to accept each other in Islam but differ from each other in finer details ... So in order to find that large group of sub-groups the task is to find the biggest collective ... because the biggest collective will contain the beliefs that are accepted by the widest community of Muslims.

So in practice we may have something like 200 to 300 groups but not all of them are in that 72 sect separator some are within that one group ... likewise the remainder 72 will contain groups slightly outside as well as clearly outside the belief system of the biggest collective grouping ... From my understanding Ahl-us-Sunnah-Wal-Jama' is the biggest grouping in matters of fiqh and these groups tend to hold three main aqaid ... For Ahmadis to join us all they have to do is confirm the 'aqeedahs that are widely accepted.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

If the majority opinion is how you determine "truth," then do the majority of the worlds population who do NOT believe in Islam also have credibility in your mind ?

Another question... Who cares who is or isnt following the "golden chain?" I really dont understand the obsessive need of Muslims to turn Islam into an exclusive club. In the end, your responsible for yourself. how is this bizarre, irrelevant, and quite frankly, misguided need to define others in any way beneficial to you and the well being of your soul?

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

Ibn Sadique,

Thanks for posting the last sermon of the prophet PBUH.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

Completely agree with Ibn Sadique. You should not be a "Proud The sector name whichever it is" (Goes for all the sectors) but only a proud MUSLIM who adheres to sunnah.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

To be fair, OP asked why Ahmedis were not considered Muslim by 'other Muslims' and 'other Muslims' replied to the question according to their beliefs. Then OP doesn't want to discuss anymore. They are simply answering the question asked.

There are two different statements; 1. I believe Ahmedis are not Muslims. 2. I believe Ahmedis are not Muslims and therefore should be destroyed.

People replied to the question asked without being aggressive or abusive as to why they believe Ahmedis are not Muslims. There is nothing inherently wrong with that belief as long as you do not discriminate against Ahmedis based on this belief.

It is same the situation where Mormons claim that they are Christians but 'other' Christians believe Mormons are not Christians. All's well as long as they do not resort to violence or discrimination to settle the differences.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

I always wanted to know Ahmedi views about Muslima and battle of Yamama during Hazrat Abu Bakr's period.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

You will find my knowledge on the subject severely lacking.

Perhaps open another thread?

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

I had several discussions regarding this Topic. They led to nowhere and slowly we became aggressive as far as I remember - including me. My question has not been answered properly.

That is why I don't want to have any discussion anymore. I have only been given answers to why I'm not a Muslim. On this base I can't have a proper discussion because it has been engraved in the minds of people that Ahmadis are not Muslim even though they pray, recite Qur'an, pay Zakat, fast and many of us do Hajj. What are we then? I mean these are the fundamental things to be a Muslim in my eyes.

We believe Muhammad (saw) to be the final and last Messenger in that sense that no law can come after Islam, but Prophet's in the Shadow of Islam/Muhammad (saw) can appear.

These are my 2 cents. Allah Hafiz.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

Suppose you believe x > y. I believe y > x.

If you ask me why I believe y > x, then I would give you my reasoning for it. If you are not convinced by the reasoning, then that's that. You cannot really blame me for explaining why I think y > x.

People are very sensitive and possessive about matters of faith. I don't think they would be easily convinced by such online discussions.

Of course, online debates help us understand each other better and should be encouraged as long as they are civil. Expecting someone to change their point of view as a result is, however, a bit overoptimistic, in my opinion.

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Re: Question concerning Ahmadiyyat

That is where the problem is.

Any prophets whether in the shadow of Mohammad PBUH or otherwise can / will not appear but only and only prophet Issa PBUH. As per Islam, prophethood ended with the last prophet PBUH. And that does not mean prophethood of LAW (Islamic law) but that belief includes all the essentials of prophethood. That guy from india was neither mehdi RA nor issa PBUH. He mislead people. Unfortunately, some people believed him and now their generations are suffering just because they're born ahmadis. Generally, ahmedis are peaceful people and it is really unfortunate that they're misguided. They need to understand that guy ghulam something whoever claimed to be mehdi or whatever prophethood he claimed was a stooge of the british which they left in the subcontinent to misguide muslims. When people are born in the family holding on to a certain belief system, not many of such people are bold enough to reject what their elders believed especially when they, otherwise, sound so balanced minded. So, all I can say that this is unfortunate that a mjority muslim believers are exploited this way.