"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren,
like unto thee,
and I will put my words in his mouth;
and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deut.18:18.
The Prophet, not at that time called to his future mission, first married at
the age of twenty-five. Given the cultural environment in which he lived,
not to mention the climate and other considerations such as his youth, it is remarkable that he should have enjoyed a reputation for perfect chastity as well as integrity and trustworthiness generally. As soon as he was called to the prophethood he acquired enemies who did not hesitate to publicise false calumnies against him-but not once did any of them (and in their jahiliyya (ignorance) they were not scrupulous men) dare to invent against him what no-one could have believed. It is important to realise that his life was founded upon chastity and self-discipline from the outset, and so remained.
After Khadijah's death, he lived a single life for four or five years.
Why did the Prophet limit himself to one wife [Khadijah RA] for the prime time of his youth and manhood, from the age of 25 until he was 50 years old when she died? This lengthy monogamous marriage spanning most of his marital life took place when polygamy was socially accepted and widely practiced and before any Qur'anic revelation restricting such a practice and limiting the number of wives to a maximum of four.
For any prophet to marry and beget children is quite natural. It is the norm, not the exception. [Qur'an, 13:38]. The practice of polygamy[1] by prophets relates to their mission. Through marital bonds with different tribes and clans, prophets sought to bind various peoples together and reduce their enmity. Polygamy was practiced by many great Biblical [and Qur'anic] prophets, including Abraham, Jacob, David and Solomon. According to the Bible, some of those prophets are said to have had dozens of wives and concubines.[2]
Hi Munni,
The first I can think of is that he is allowed more wives than other believers.
Who to marry--
Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female: if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things. –Surah 24:32
Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah.s command must be fulfilled. --Surah 33:37
Concerning this one why at the time when it was considered outside of the law for a man to marry his daughter-in-law did this surah appear? And why when Muslims are told earlier to marry single people in Surah 24:32 are they now told it is ok to marry somone who is married to your son? Anyhow, I know that the chapters are not in chronological order but these are 2 different commands. What is so Godly about taking your son's wife? So now she has to commit adultry to be with Dad, and Dad causes strife in the family. But I guess this is not the belilef Muslims have, especially since a Surah makes it right. That is ok this is just a simple observation from a simple minded man, Me :)
Well, I have a question maybe you all can clear up for me again. Did Muhammad or did he not sleep with Mary while Hafsa was away visiting her father?
I'm going to have to carry this conversation at another time. Thank you all for your help.
Peace,
Barry
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lyrixforu: *
Friends I hope you all don't mind me refering to you as such:)
I am pleased at your responses. I'm not sure I could agree with everything said. what is said but that is ok. and you have interesting incite. I want to respond to all your questions that have come since my last question so I will try to respond to each individually. in reverse order.
bao bihari,
Well bao, thank you for refering to me as brother same to you. I must answer that in order that I could believe as such, Muhammad is prophet, I would have to answer these questions I ask in a manner such that would leave no doubt in my mind that he could be a prophet. Then as he would be prophet in my mind all else must fall in place, ie. everything in quran must be true. But... if these questions can not be answered in a manner such that I could believe with out a doubt that he were a prophet then the whole house crumbles and the book goes with it. I really hope this is not offensive to all of you. My intention is not to offend just seeking the truth.
God bless,
Barry
[/QUOTE]
Brother barry.....first of all ...when u say u dont intend to offend nay one...we belive u ...no need to repeat it upmteen times :D ...just as a side note ...
Now ..... can u sight any specific example.......try to make more then one.....to support ur assumption......
Also we dont have to judge whether one was prophet or not on these things.....like u said these things will fit in the picture if u start believing them as true..........may be ur approaching the road from the wrong side......anyway u have every right to ask as u like......
so plz provide in bullet form if possible ...ur basic refrence to support the assumption u made.....
Sorrry bao I'll have to find them another time.
And as for your response to me that I should believe then it will all fall in place. I'm sorry but I believe this is a very backward approach to religion. If that in fact worked what is to stop me from whorshiping the Devil as God. If I just believe w/out proof of truth it is very easy to be lead astray. What of all other religions? I could just believe and they will come true then too., Hindu, Budha, Taoism, Shinto, etc.
I hope you see why it really requires more than just saying it is so to convince me it is true.
Reham1,
I'm in need of a break so I am going home but I have just 2 observation in all that you said.
quote:
No doubt he possessed an excellent character, charming manners and was highly cultured.
and then go on to say that
quote:
being unlettered
Which is it Highly cultured or unlettered. By definition someone who is highly cultured can not be unlettered.
Peace,
Barry
Sorry reham1 forgot to mention the other thought.
You mention Deuteronomy 18:18. Did Muhammad speak directly with God? Funny you should quote the Bible as I was told earlier that Muslims do not believe it.
Following rational logic.
- If You don't believe the Bible (or do you)
- Yet, use the Bible as proof of Muhammad's prophecy
... By contradiction, you believe what is written in the Bible.
If so you must be bound to its entirity.
Just didn't think it was fair to leave you hanging.
Peace,
Barry
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lyrixforu: *
Sorrry bao I'll have to find them another time.
And as for your response to me that I should believe then it will all fall in place. I'm sorry but I believe this is a very backward approach to religion. If that in fact worked what is to stop me from whorshiping the Devil as God. If I just believe w/out proof of truth it is very easy to be lead astray. What of all other religions? I could just believe and they will come true then too., Hindu, Budha, Taoism, Shinto, etc.
I hope you see why it really requires more than just saying it is so to convince me it is true.
Peace,
Barry
[/QUOTE]
brother i dont want u to belive blindly...just was commenting on ur approach.....it was jsut a comment....as to where to start ....any way ...i'll never recommend u to start beliving in islam.........with out fully understanding in it..thats what we muslims belive......hope that clears my point......
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lyrixforu: *
That is ok this is just a simple observation from a simple minded man, Me :)
Barry
[/QUOTE]
Hello Barry,
I am afraid that I dont think that it is just simple observation from simple minded man :)
Infact I think you are doing a fine job for us. You are providing an oppurtunity for us muslims to learn how to respond to agressive propoganda against Islam. This way you are helping many people understand Islam.
Islam is fastest growing religon in world, but I feel ashamed to admit that the contribution of muslims in this growth is very low. I think that this propoganda against Islam has a bigger contribution. People who want to find out the truth, realize the greatness of this religon.
Anyway I think your latest question will be answered by members, if not then I will answer it for you :)
Till then take care
Let us look at Luke 23:33-35 from the NIV Bible:
Luke 23
33 When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals--one on his right, the other on his left.
34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." [1] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
35 The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, "He saved others; let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One."
If Jesus was truly GOD Almighty, then he would've said something like this: "I Jesus, the Sovereign LORD of this Universe, forgive them for they know not!". Jesus never said anything like that. He instead asked GOD Almighty to forgive them because they knew not. How can anyone with an atom of a brain and common sense consider Jesus as GOD Almighty then?!
Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy:
In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.
In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.
In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.
In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."
There are a lot more verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy, but I think that the above are sufficient enough to prove my point.
Well I'm glad you credit me with not being a simple minded man, smiles.
I hope you don't mind if I search for the truth. Please don't feel this is an attack, if it causes you to question. I've always believed that I grow the least listening to those that agree with me the most. It always appears to me that I grow the most spiritually when someone definitely does not see eye-to-eye with me. I don't know many Muslims personally and I am sad to say that it appears from some posts on this site that I am not allowed to be your friend. But I would gladly be "friend" to any of you because what I believe in encourgages me to be friend to everyone in the world, no matter race, religion or creed. To love with my whole heart and reach out to those in need. I really hope I have not overstepped my bounds here 'cause u've all been so kind in your responses, thanks. I am going for now, but I do have more questions I would like answered at some time.
Peace and prayers,
Barry
Hi Reham,
It is interesting that you say what Jesus would have said if he were God. By that am I to believe that you are God? For how in the world would you know what God would say if you are not God?
quote:
If Jesus was truly GOD Almighty, then he would've said something like this: "I Jesus, the Sovereign LORD of this Universe, forgive them for they know not!". Jesus never said anything like that.
Does this mean you are God? How is it that you know what God would have said? Are you a prophet?
I guess you want me to use the NIV OK. Sorry for the long quote but it is hard to get the gist of this quote if you take it out of context.
If no one has ever seen God but God, and he is at the right hand of the Father who has made him know, who is at the right hand of the Father?
NIV
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[1] it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.[2]
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 13children born not of natural descent,[3] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[4] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[5] ,[6] who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
And who on earth comes after him, John the Baptist, that has surpased him, Moses... no Moses was before him That only leaves one other name that could come after him, Jesus. But if what is written is true he also came before him. How is this so if Jesus is a man. He can not possibly be born both before and after right? So he must transcend time. And he also says that he is At the Fathers side, but no one has seen God but God. If that is so Jesus must be God. which is aluded to by the begining of the book. 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
But that is all just reasoning according to what is written in the NIV Bible. Which I've heard is not believed to be truth by Muslims So I don't expect people to agree with that reasoning. But how did Jesus get into the Quran if all of the Bible is wrong.
I'm curious for an answer? Either the Book or some of the people that preceded the quran had to have the truth if not why does Muhammad grant special privilege to Christians and Jews that pay. If so which part of it is true and how do you know what is truth.
Anyhow I really must go I'm sure by now some of what I am saying is making no sense whatsoever as I'm losing my reason.
Cheers,
Barry
Brother Barry
How are you. The reason that I mentioned that Prophet
Muhammad(SAW) was unlettered because he(SAW) couldn't
have written the Koran or got knowledge from Sages at that
time.
Unlike Bible or should I say Bibles, these books which contradict
each other.How can It be word of God when It get RENEWED
each year.Like you have so many versions now.
take care
"and this is life eternal that they should know Thee the only True God and Jesus Christ whom Thou has sent." (John 17:3)
"MOST CERTAINLY THE MESSIAH,
JESUS THE SON OF MARY,
WAS AN APOSTLE OF ALLAH AND HIS
WORD,
WHICH HE BESTOWED ON MARY AND A
SPIRIT PROCEEDING FROM HIM:
SO BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND HIS
APOSTLES..." Holy Qur'an 4:171
Lot of skirting around the original question but no direct answer. The original question by the poster was why Mohammad had 9 or more wives when Law of God was "not more than 4"? Did he had special permission? or did he violate the Law of God?
Did everyone in his time had 4 wives? since not all Arabs were muslims yet, it can be assumed that some of them had mroe than 4 or as some one pointed out earlier, dozens of wives? If welfare of the widows was the reason of Prophet marrying that many women, why not keep 4 for himself and ask other followers to marry rest fo them? or did everyone already had 4? How on earth is that possible? How can the ratio of male to female be so skewed? In the worst war torn regions in the world where wars lasted 10s of years the ratio is not skewed more than few percentage points from the normal ratio in that region. e.g. Afghanistan has been in war since late 70's, what is the ratio there? Do you see millions of unwed or single women there?
Now if the male to female ratio was not that bad in Arabia of 7th century but it were some feudals who kept dozens of wives, then that means it was not a normal occurrence. Since it was not a normal occurrence it was then not a social tradition or custom but a bad thing being done by few rich and feudal people. In that case why legitimize it rather than outlaw it? Was Prophet catering to few rich and wealthy powerful feudals to fulfill their carnival desires? why?
Hi Munni,
Sorry everyone I think I was getting abit delerious at the end there yesterday.
Upon rereading through the posts I found this tad you posted earlier which makes my point exactly. You see, all divorced their wives but the prophet. And why didn't God tell tell Muhammad to divorce his wives and that they would be allowed to marry others to make the prophecy consistent. I will not presume to know what God would say, but from the outisde this does not sound like the teachings of a wise and holy man revealing the word of God. It appears more like a selfish licentious man making laws that only benifit himself. Pardon the expressions just making observations and showing how one could peceive his actions in a less than holy light. In going with what I said about the selfish part. If I were to make a religion and wanted to have many wives, what better way to keep them from ever divorcing me but to make a decree that no one was allowed to marry them but me. They would become virtual slaves whether they wanted to be or not. I'm not suggesting the Muslim faith is fake just making the observation that if I was going to create a religion I would do the exact same thing, which would also mean that I myself did not believe in God.
Quote:
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
Surah 4 Verse 3
On hearing this order, all who men who had more than four wives divorced them, in full submission to God's orders. The divorced wives - who accepted this divine decree with full satisfaction, implied by their deep faith - soon found other marriages and lead normal lives. Nevertheless, the Prophet (may peace be upon him) - who had nine wives at the time the order was revealed - was exempted from this order in a later verse of Qur’an:
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; ...
Surah 33 Verse 50
This exemption was because there was a prohibition in the Qur’an for any Muslim to marry the Prophet's wives once he died or divorced them:
Peace,
Barry
Brother Reham1,
You say that you mention that he could not have gotten his knowledge from sages at the time. How is it that a successful business man, if not able to read himself, does not have clerics who can. I am sure that it is quite possible that he had someone who was capable of reading and writing for him. Did you know the author of the Gilead was blind? How is it that he wrote it? Do you think that maybe he was able to dictate it? And so could Muhammad.
Maybe that is not how it happened but it is a reasonable alternate explanation for how the Quran came into existence.
Peace,
Barry
Mr. lyrixforu,
You are not the first one to object that somebody has helped the Holy Prophet in writing Quran. There were Quraish during the days of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) who levelled the same charges on Holy Prophet.
To answer people like you, 25h chapter of Holy Quran, Surah Al-Furqan specificaly deals with it.
And Just to add one thing, till the 6th century AD (the time of the Holy Prophet), Gospels were yet to be translated to Arabic.
Lyrix brother , I want to thank you for your questions, i have been heartened by reading the replies you have recieved. Please don't be offended, I am just trying to understand you better, but I suspect you have just heard one negative sermon too many about Islam which has coloured your attitude, please don't be offended I say that. I value your desire to seek the truth.
The proof of prophet Muhammed's prophecy lies in the fact that his message till today remains unchanged and accounts for the beliefs of a quarter of the worlds population. His message was to belive in One God and associcate no dieties with Him. Due to this belief he suffered.
It is also interesting that Prophet Muhammed must be the single human being in history whose life is so well documented, I wonder if you have read any autobiographies of his life?
Prophet Muhammed did not have any sons so the story you describe could not hold true.
I think you may also be under the misconcpetion that Muslims do not believe, honour and respect the other prohets - we do.