Qualities of a Sufi - What are they ???

Well, we have a sufimaster here, although I’m not convinced, and now we have my old friend faceup claiming he is a sufi - which surprised me because in various threads he has described other Gupshuppers as “pisspots”, and advised another member to “go kiss a horse’s ass”.

So I was wondering what qualities should a sufi display, and not being a sufi myself, I have to say that I haven’t seen anyone come close so far to what I always thought they represented.

Comeon you sufis, let’s here it from the horse’s mouth (as opposed to his ass).

Is that ok with you faceup pir sahib?

i agrree with you xtreme, people like faceup give sufism a bad name......thats disgusting language ie horse ass, most deporable!

people expect sufis to be perfect and im no sufi myself.I kinda lked the name "sufi" with the "master" attached to it.

for me a sufi is soemone who cares abt other people, someone who cant sleep at night when he sees and hears abt the suffering of innocent people. the sufi in islam does his best to help the poor people regardless of their religion with no intention to convert them to islam. Also they pray for people even if they say bad stuff abt them.

i have met 2 people and immediately recognised they are sufis. Firstly , their manners were excellent and they never spoke a word bad abt anyone. They also have other mystical/ spiritual powers like curing cancer and changing rotten peoples hearts but not by way of speech. When a person is in their company their problems seem to dissapear.

YA ALI MADAD.......
NARA-e-Haidaree
YA ALIIIIIIIIIII maula haq imam haider (as)...........

Xtreme, I am a big admirer of Sufis. I don’t know if there is anyone in today’s world that comes remotely close to being a Sufi. They were mainly selfless people whose main goal in life was to discover the path of righteousness and thru that discover oneself. My interest is mainly in 12 century onward Sufis. I am currently reading a translation of “Rihla” (by Ibn-e-Juzayy to cover Ibn-e-Batuta travels through the Eastern Hemisphere). It is an excellent read, and it covers many Sufis of Fez, Damascus, Delhi, etc.

Basically what it says is that there are two ideas that were at the heart of the Sufi Movement. One was that the individual Muslim is capable of achieving direct and personal communion with God. The other was that the path to God could be found through the intermediary of a saintly master or “Shaik”. Such an individual was thought to be a “Wali” (friend of God) who radiated the quality of divine grace and could transmit it to others.

Salam brothers and sisters,
**
There are some Sufis (Walis ) still alive. I know one myself. A sufis's soul is beautiful. He actually feels the love of Allah every second of his life. The sufi I am talking about lives in interior sindh. Whenever the name of Allah comes to his tongue, he starts to cry. He is a true lover of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w) and his family( r.a). I can take u there and u can meet him. He is a "Normal" person and does NOT claim to be a preacher. That is the first quality of a sufi that distinguishes him from a weirdo Mullah (moulvi). May Allah bless all muslimeens (mukhliseens).**
Wassalam,
Muslim786

YA ALI

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
**Xtreme, I am a big admirer of Sufis. I don’t know if there is anyone in today’s world that comes remotely close to being a Sufi. They were mainly selfless people whose main goal in life was to discover the path of righteousness and thru that discover oneself. My interest is mainly in 12 century onward Sufis. I am currently reading a translation of “Rihla” (by Ibn-e-Juzayy to cover Ibn-e-Batuta travels through the Eastern Hemisphere). It is an excellent read, and it covers many Sufis of Fez, Damascus, Delhi, etc.

Basically what it says is that there are two ideas that were at the heart of the Sufi Movement. One was that the individual Muslim is capable of achieving direct and personal communion with God. The other was that the path to God could be found through the intermediary of a saintly master or “Shaik”. Such an individual was thought to be a “Wali” (friend of God) who radiated the quality of divine grace and could transmit it to others.**
[/quote]

Well! "Sufi" is a non-Quranic term and "Sufism" is a non-Quranic concept!

It seems the Imams, Walis and Sufis are scared of today's debating society, they have stopped appearing anymore!

**
They are not scared of society or anything Sophia. a sufi only fears Allah (rather love Allah) and thats it. U all can keep fighting about laws and regulations and u guys are miles away from the beautiful and purified qualities of sufis. And a sufi does NOT only recite quran like you Wahabi mullahs, he actually practices it by craeting harmony and love among people.**
Wassalam,
Muslim786

Sophia, by your definition then Sunniism or Deobandi, etc. are also non-Quranic concepts? And how about Ahadithism. And not to mention some other isms.

[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
*Sophia, by your definition then Sunniism or Deobandi, etc. are also non-Quranic concepts? And how about Ahadithism. And not to mention some other isms. *
[/quote]

Well said dear! Of course such secterianism and labelling is the tregedy of Islam. The sole way to be a simple (or true) Muslim is to have Quranic approach! "Hasabna Kitab Allah"

Wa ma alaina illulbalagh

Sufis are very mysterious. As far as I know it is about appreciating the core of religion, goodness, light etc. I read a couple of books and I think they were quite nice.

What I don't understand is why do people claim to be sufis like faceup when in reality he is just a knob end like me? A regular joe.

And why does muslim786 admire sufis and preach sectarian hatred at one and the same time?

Ramesha,

Sorry, didn't really understand the significance of the nairee haidree bit, but am happy to join in; Ya Ali!

NYA,

Would sufis encourage harami practices and if so, why?

faceup pir sahib,

Yaar, This thread was for you above all, and as your average pisspot, I would love to hear your views on why sufis like yourself are able to bash some sects and not others. What is your tariqah? Are sufis allowed to engage in sectarian hatred? It sounds a lot of fun. Look forward to your reply.

Mr 786,

I am not a Wahabbi. And what makes me jahil and not you? Please answer. I would love to hear it.

Not that i mean to sound closed-minded or anything in this forum.......hehe what a thought in this forum.....but i was once given a little "image" of Sufis:

They basically sing & dance (modestly) when it comes to praising Allah SWT. I mean, it was quite intriguing the way they seemed so mesmerised when being 'spritually englightened' & when finding the state of tranquility with God -- some ppl would even faint when dancing/celebrating in the congregation.

Frankly, i didnt' like how they were prainsing Allah SWT -- or, to stand more correctly, may he the documentry didn't show the whole side of Sufism. (Isn't that how usually a lot of documentaries relating to religion are? They never ever cover the whole aspect of a particular religion).

Anways, months later after watching these documentries, i found out my late dada (Grandfather) was a Sufi.....& he was such a calm, collected, conservative man.....who had done Hajj a # of times, & is actually an admired man. So that earlier image i had of Sufis totally shattered -- which is a good thing cuz i'm sure there's more to Sufis than what i saw.
BTW, i hope i'm the only 1 here who had that 'false image' on how Sufis were; so far in this thread no one (for once) has actually ridiculed their ways. Blah, the whole thing was probably my misinterpretation anwyays.

Xtreme, where does this “harami practices” things come from? The biggest haram in my opinion, and in the opinion of a Great Sofi is:

Masjid Dha dey, Mandar Dha dey, Dha dey jay kuch Dhainda
Ik kisi da dil no dhawein, Rab dillaN vich rehNda

The problem with single-dimensional approach such as yours (i.e., if one is not doing the Right thing, he must be doing the wrong thing – ever thought of doing a “different” thing?). so it is all a perception (your and mine) as to what we define as Haram.

“God is He who has subjected to you the sea, that the ships may run on it at His commandment, and that you may seek His bounty; happily so you will be thankful”. (Al-Quran – al Rehman)

Xtreme, my brotherly advice to you is to get out of a quaint and off-center thinking. You are a lot smarter than you think!

NYA:

Well yes, I’ve heard that before, but there’s nothing haram in that sentence. Masjids and mandirs are made of bricks so it makes sense that they are inferior to human beings. possibly if your pal Rushdie had followed that advice he would be appreciated as a humanist rather than a n opportunist shit-stirrer.

What I’m looking for is a sufi that advocates bacon butties, porno mags and prostitution. Enlighten me.

Kohal,

If your dada fits the above description then help my pal Ahmadi out

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

What I'm looking for is a sufi that advocates bacon butties, porno mags
and prostitution. Enlighten me.<<<

for that, Xtreme, I suggest that come and spend a week with me in NY. Lots a cool stuff like that my man.

Why are you interested in that kinda stuff? you little bad boy you!

NYAhmadi ji – suprise suprise ?

Xtreme,

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

, i really doubt it if my dada would fit such a description, no really i do doubt it. May Allah haver mercy on him. So, can’t really relate to what Ahmadi ji is referring to…

Agree with sophia mujahid! Read on!

**The word Sufi is most likely to be derived from the Arabic word “soof”, meaning wool. This is because of the Sufi habit of wearing woolen coats, a designation of their initiation into the Sufi order. The early Sufi orders considered the wearing of this coat as an imitation of Isa bin Maryam (Jesus). In reply to this, Ibn Taymiyyah said: "There are a people who have chosen and preferred the wearing of woolen clothes, claiming that they want to resemble al-Maseeh ibn Maryam. But the way of our Prophet is more beloved to us, and the Prophet (s.a.w.s) used to wear cotton and other garments."1

Sufism is known as “Islamic Mysticism,” in which Muslims seek to find divine love and knowledge through direct personal experience of God2. Mysticism is defined as the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality, and the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)3

Both the terms Sufi and Sufism and Sufi beliefs have no basis from the traditional Islamic sources of the Qur’an and Sunnah, a fact even admitted by themselves. Rather, Sufism is in essence a conglomerate consisting of extracts from a multitude of other religions with which Sufi’s interacted.

During the primary stages of Sufism, Sufis were characterised by their particular attachment to zikr (remembrance of Allah) and asceticism (seclusion), as well as the beginning of innovated practices to ‘aid’ in the religious practices. Yet even at the early stage of Sufism, before their involvement in innovated rituals and structured orders, the scholars warned the masses of the extremity of Sufi practices. Imam Al-Shafi’ had the opinion that “If a person exercised Sufism (Tasawafa) at the beginning of the day, he doesn’t come at Zuhur except an idiot”. Imam Malik and Ahmad bin Hanbal also shared similar ideas on this new movement which emanated from Basrah, Iraq.

Although it began as a move towards excessive Ibaadah, such practices were doomed to lead to corruption, since their basis did not come from authentic religious doctrines, but rather from exaggerated human emotions.

Sufism as an organised movement arose among pious Muslims as a reaction against the worldliness of the early Umayyad period (AD 661-750)4. The Sufis exploited the chaotic state of affairs that existed during the fifth and sixth centuries A.H. and invited people to follow their way, alleging that the remedy to this chaos was conformity to the guidance of their order’s Sheikhs. Dar al-Majnoon was established during the reign of Khalifah Ma’moon, where he invited the scholars of the Romans and Greeks to meet with the Muslims and ‘discuss’ their respective positions. This provided the perfect breeding ground for the synthesis between Islam and Pagan theology, to produce the Sufism of the like of Ibn Arabi.**

I know this is what you didn’t wanted to read.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Jaawan


till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid

Wise Man says:>What I say won’t really change anything, but what you say doesn’t really matter!

Jawan, where are your footnotes? Stupid is what stupid does.

Shaikh Abu Zahrah (R) said concerning the reason for the appearance of Sufism and the sources from which it sprung:

  1. The first source: Some worshippers amongst the Muslims turned all their attention to avoidance of the worldly life and to cutting themselves off in order to worship. This first began in the lifetime of the Prophet (s.a.w.s) when some of the Sahâbah decided to spend the night striving in Prayer and abandoning sleep. Others decided to fast every day without fail. Others decided to cease having marital relations with women. So when that reached the Prophet (s.a.w.s) he said: "What is wrong with a people who say such and such. But rather I fat and I refrain from fasting, I pray and I sleep, and I marry women. So whoever turns away from my Sunnah, then he is not from me (Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim). Furthermore, the innovation of living like monks (monasticism) is forbidden in the Qur’an. He said:

“…the Monasticism which they invented for themselves…” [57:27].

  1. The second matter which attracted peoples’ souls was something which appeared amongst the Muslims in the form of two ideologies. One of them was philosophical whilst the other was from the previous religions. As for the first, then it was the view of the Illumist school of philosophers who held that knowledge and awareness is brought about in the soul by spiritual exercises and purification of the soul. As for the second ideology, then it was the belief that the Deity dwells in human souls, or that the Deity is incarnate in humanity.<<(isnt that a hindu believe as well, except that they have too many gods dwelling in human souls,

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

)>>This idea began to find a place amongst those sects who falsely attributed themselves to Islam in the earlier times, when the Muslims became mixed with the Christians. This idea appeared amongst the Sabians and some of the Kaysaamiyyah, then the Qaraamitah, then amongst the Baatinees, then in its final shape it appeared amongst some of the Sufis…There is another source from which it took, and which causes the manifestation of Sufi tendencies, which is the idea that the texts of the Book and the Sunnah have an outer, apparent meaning and an inner, hidden meaning…it seems clear that they took this idea from the Baatinees." [Ibn Taymiyah by Abu Zahra].

Jaawan


till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid

Wise Man says:>What I say won’t really change anything, but what you say doesn’t really matter!

[This message has been edited by sabah (edited September 01, 2000).]