Qadiyani view on early false prophets

I am curious about what is Mirza’s own stance on the false prophets who errupted right after Mohammed :saw:'s departure from this world???

I would appreciate if someone comes up with his writings before and after his own claim to be a prophet.

Also what do today’s Ahmediz think about those prophets and Hz AbuBakar :razi: who fought against them and defeated all of those 20+ false prophets in Arabia. Remember Abubakar, Ali, Umar, Talha, Saa’d bin Abi Waqas, Jafar Tayyar and many other top Sahaba :razi: were the front linerz against that fitna and they all were united on khatam-e-nabuwat aqeedah.

Thnx…

Smooth, were the million other threads not good enough to post this question that you started another one?

Here is an answer I wrote a while back for pretty much the same question. I hope that answers part of your question.


The issue of apostasy & its punishment is very interesting as far as the Islamic history is concerned and it is best debated in the context of Musailma. The wars fought by Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra) are commonly known as “Wars of Apostasy” which gives the impression that wars were about the claim of prophet hood by these people. But was apostasy & its punishment the sole reason Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra) & other Sahabas fought those wars? Or was the reason different but ‘false claims to prophet hood’ one of the common traits of these people? For that you have to read history a little more in depth, certainly not the ones they teach as the course books in Pakistan. :slight_smile:

All history is biased, regardless of who writes it, especially the opinion on justification, morality and reasons of going to war, as people’s lives are at stake. Is the War on terror, a war against violent religious extremism or is it against Islam? Is the war with Iraq about WMD, security and a cruel dictator or about Oil and Israel etc? The opinion varies and is usually dictated by one’s own perception and biasness towards the issue. Not only the victors write the history but most often than not it’s rewritten in the following years as needed & the dominant view among the historians of the victorious becomes the commonly known history, regardless of the fact that it might not have any truth to it.

The whole saga with Musailma is particularly important as it gives many different clues that weakens if not totally reject the reasoning commonly known, for the strong stand of Hazrat Abu Bakar :ra:. Here are a few things to consider:

#1. Contrary to common belief, Musilma’s claim to prophet hood didn’t come after AnHazoor (saw) death. Instead in the life of the Holy Prophet (saw) he made several attempts to be recognized by him as a fellow prophet & was hopeful that afterwards the position of the ‘head of the state’ of the newly founded Muslim State will be given to him. He wrote letters to the Holy Prophet (saw) addressing himself as a prophet & also addressing AnHazoor (saw) as a prophet. So, the question arises, if it’s necessary to go after a false claimant and punish him, and if that was the reason why Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra) went after Musailma then why AnHazoor (saw) didn’t? And if AnHazoor (saw) didn’t go to war, how can his perfect follower, Hazrat Abu Bakar :ra: , who wouldn’t even budge an iota away from his sunnah would go to war?

#2. The claim of Musialma changed after the demise of AnHazoor (saw). He shifted from claiming to be a fellow prophet to a better prophet and also claimed that Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra), who was already elected as Khalifa (Head of the Muslim State) at that time, should follow him. He refused to pay dues, such as Zaka’at and also changed the law of the land by making drinking lawful along with Zana etc. Not recognizing the head of state, in this case denying bait of a (rightfully guided) Khalifa is considered ‘rebellion’ and throughout Islamic history it has caused the followers of both parties pull out arms against each other. Refusal to pay the state dues, make amendments to the law of the land is another unprecedented crime. Not to mention massing army & making alliances with other favored groups against the ‘head of the state’ and create a law & order situation is considered ‘treason’ and even the great democracies of today consider it a crime punishable by death. And Musailma did all the above!

#3. The history also shows that there were other claimants of ‘prophet hood’ at that time that were mostly brought to justice but there were some that were left alone. One has to investigate why they were forgiven? One of the wives of Musailma (if I remember correctly her name was Sajjah) also claimed to be a prophetess. Though when she couldn’t get along with Musailma (who in the opinion of most historians was only using her) moved to her homeland Iraq, which at that time was not part of the Islamic state. There is no evidence that Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra) or other went after her to punish her or her believers, for her false claim to prophet hood.

Most Muslims who appose the idea of ‘waging a war against the apostates’ argue through Qur’an stating the fact that it preaches no compulsion in religion and gives freedom of belief to others. IMO, the close study of the case of Musailma gives a far better argument, as Qur’an is open to interpretation, and mostly the pro-death-penalty for false prophets give Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra) incident as their sole argument, with the case of Musailma as the center piece.

Re: Qadiyani view on early false prophets

Which Khatam-e-Nabuwat aqeedah are you talking about. Your Khatam-e-Nabuwwat aqeedah?

Huzur :saw: himself had said:
Lau Kaana Ba’adi Nabiyyeen Lakaana Umaro.
“If there were a prophet after me, it would have been Umar.” (Durri Mansoor)

If Khatam-e-Nabuwat means what you suggest, he should’ve said, no matter how pious and holy Umar :razi: gets, he can’t become prophet because there can’t be any prophet after me. Wouldn’t he?

After the demise of Huzur (SAW), this was hadhrat Abu Bakar :razi: who killed your Jesus by stating this holy verse of Quran:

3: 145. And Muhammad is but a messenger. Verily all Messengers have passed away before him. If then he dies or is slain, will you turn back on your heels ? And he who turns back on his heels shall not harm ALLAH at all. And ALLAH will certainly reward the grateful.

Remember, Quran states: Verily all Messengers have passed away before him. Where is your Jesus man?

Also Hazrat Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her) is reported as having said:

Say he was Khataman Nabiyyeen, but do not say that there will be no prophet after him. (Durre Manshur, Vol. V of Jalaludin Suyuti)

Either Quran/Huzur :saw:/Abu Bakar :razi:/Ayesh :razi: are right or you are right… you choose!

I asked you guys something…and ur quoting quran and hadith for something else…

I am asking what do you think about the false prophets after Mohammed :saw: ???

What do you guys think about Abu Bakr :razi: killing the false prophets in his reach ???

Ahmedjee…ur arguments are not valid…they all claimed to be prophets and Abubakr did treat them well accordingly. This is not from the course books of Pakistan but its also elsewhere…you read the history of Islam from Egypt, Iraq or anyhwere uwill find that they were false prophet…

>>>Ahmedjee....ur arguments are not valid.....

Smooth yar, sorry to burst your bubble but your statements are not the the authentication of historical events.

I made three points based on Musilma Kazab, the most famously known claimant of prophethood after AnHazoor (saw) , I would be happy if you even challenge one. Just give me one reason why AnHazoor (saw) didn't pursue to wage a war aganist Musilma when he claimed to be a prophet?

you tell me one thing.....was Musalima a true prophet ?????
Why Hazoor didn't attack him ???? My question to you since you brought it up....

What's ur point ?

Where is the answer to my questions

repeat

I am asking what do you think about the false prophets after Mohammed ???????????????????

What do you guys think about Abu Bakr killing the false prophets in his reach ??????

sigh Not another thread regarding this subject.

Ufffoo Smooth yar, are you telling me that my long hard-working article didn't give it away? sigh

Let me put it in simple terms.

When Musilma claimed to be a fellow prophet, AnHazoor (saw) didn't go to war because he only claimed to be one in his belief. He didn't break any laws, he didn't mass armies, he didn't deny the authority of the state or that of AnHazoor (saw) as the leader of the state. He paid his dues and followed the law. He didn't threaten to go to war. As long as he claims to be one and lives peacefully .. there is no harm done. He was FREE to believe whatever he thought of himself. Sorry to break it to you but my beloved AnHazoor (saw) and his followers believed in freedom of religion.

But when AnHazoor (saw) passed away he refused to accept Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra) as Khalifa, which in turn means refusing to accept the head of state or the authority of the land. He refused to pay Zakat, which is mandatory by law to pay by all Muslims. He massed armies and made allegiances to go to war against Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra). He refused to obey the law and made changes to it on the part of land he had influence on. And he justified it based on his claim to be the next prophet, and so Hazrat Abu Bakar went to war with him.

To make it even more simpler, let me advise you to stop paying your taxes. And when the revenue service calls you, tell them that you don't believe in taxes and you will not pay them & you are willing to defend your territory with the huge mass of guns in your house. If you survive the swat team, please let us all know your experience.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
Ufffoo Smooth yar, are you telling me that my long hard-working article didn't give it away? *sigh

Let me put it in simple terms.

When Musilma claimed to be a fellow prophet, AnHazoor (saw) didn't go to war because he only claimed to be one in his belief. He didn't break any laws, he didn't mass armies, he didn't deny the authority of the state or that of AnHazoor (saw) as the leader of the state. He paid his dues and followed the law. He didn't threaten to go to war. As long as he claims to be one and lives peacefully .. there is no harm done. He was FREE to believe whatever he thought of himself. Sorry to break it to you but my beloved AnHazoor (saw) and his followers believed in freedom of religion.

But when AnHazoor (saw) passed away he refused to accept Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra) as Khalifa, which in turn means refusing to accept the head of state or the authority of the land. He refused to pay Zakat, which is mandatory by law to pay by all Muslims. He massed armies and made allegiances to go to war against Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra). He refused to obey the law and made changes to it on the part of land he had influence on. And he justified it based on his claim to be the next prophet, and so Hazrat Abu Bakar went to war with him.

To make it even more simpler, let me advise you to stop paying your taxes. And when the revenue service calls you, tell them that you don't believe in taxes and you will not pay them & you are willing to defend your territory with the huge mass of guns in your house. If you survive the swat team, please let us all know your experience.
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Provide proof of your claim from Sunni resources (non-ahmedi) that prophet tolerate Musalema as a claiment of prophetthood as long as he is not harmful for muslims.

Secondly..why you brought this in this thread??? Trying to proove what?
Prophet tolerated a false prophethood in his life....so we should do the same with Mirza ??

And return back to my original questions. About Mirza's own stance on these false prophet. What did he think of them ?

First, promise me, you will stop paying taxes to the state of Canada! :-) Deal?

Re: Qadiyani view on early false prophets

The people you have mentioned were all claimants of law-bearing prophethood.

Some of these claimants were alive at the time of Prophet Mohammad but a war was not waged against them until they broke their pacts with the state or waged a war against it.

Mr. Ahmadjee is right some what, that those false prophets started to emerge during the life time of our prophet.

However, our prophet didn't take a stance during that time because there wee other more important things to deal with.

During his last days, the attack from Romans could have happened any time soon and the prepartions were being made when our beloved prophet left this world forever.

However, those false prophets saw this as a golden opportunity and they revolted.

Because they knew, if they would have proclaimed themselves as prophet during the life time of muhammad then people would not have believed them.

However, they saw this as a golden chance because they thought there wasn't anyone left like Muhammad to reunite arbia once again in the name of Islam.

But Abubakar proved this Allah's saying right in quran, that a person doesnt' save islam but allah produces the means of saving islam.

Therefore, we see those false prophets revolting and many of the tribes refusing to pay zakat. A full scale war became essential, because if Abu Bakar would have dealth with them softly then i can guarantee this islam wouldn't be in its original form today.

that's all i have to say. Yes it is also mention in sunni books, that fasle prophets started to emerge during the life time of Muhammad and i have explained the reasons why those false prophets didn't open up and why muslims didn't deal with them during the time of Muhammad.

And now, since all other problems of Muslims have been solved, and they face no other problem or threat, dealing with Ahmedis is the single most important thing left.

:k:

Yes Ahmadis dont pose a threat to any muslim country or any muslim's faith, as the followers of those false prophets did right after the departure of our beloved prophet.

And a full lenght war became essential, because those false prophets who were quiet and didn't cross their limits they started to do that. They refused to pay zakat, procralimed themselves as prophets and proposed their own brand of islam. For example, some of them made alcohol halal and changing the number of daily prayers stuff like that.

Therefore, a war with them became unavoidable.

However, today no one listens to ahmadis any way. So, if they are quiet and minding their business we should no be bothered with them.

That's what i have come to conclusion when it comes to dealing with ahmadis. Stay away from them and let them mind their own business.

so you agreed that the Ahmediat is no different than those fitnaz which Abubakr :razi: dealt with sword.

Was it my agreement you had been waiting for?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Angryyoungman23: *
That's what i have come to conclusion when it comes to dealing with ahmadis. Stay away from them and let them mind their own business.
[/QUOTE]

PLEASE!

The problem is not that…no one wants to kill Ahmediz…they are like any other human beings in the world. They have right to do whatever they want. The thing is Mirza claimed that after Prophet Mohammed :saw: 'I am the next messenger of Islam and MUSLIMS should follow me otherwise they will not be Muslims anymore, nor they will be follower of Prophet :saw:‘s true deen-e-Islam’. This is the whole problem why Muslims get upset. Many of those early false prophet said the same thing (we are prophet of ISLAM) and got the right treatment…which they deserved. If they had claimed to be something else…chances are they would have been left with Jizya…as non-Muslims.

If Mirza just claimed that OK…I am the prophet of GOD and follow me …this is my so and so religion and blah blah blah… we Muslims never had any problem. We don’t care if Qadianiz use any name…whatsoever. But abusing some religion…and calling its followers ‘children of prostetute’ is not a Sane thing.

^
When prophet Jesus will descend from the sky, and tell all the Muslims to believe in him otherwise they will not be Muslims anymore, nor they will be follower of Prophet 's true deen-e-Islam, then will you use the same langauge against him like you use against Mirza Saheb?

In my last post.....where did you find bad language? "Children of prostitute' is Mirza's famous saying. Can you denay that? I am trying to make sense here and showing the majority of Muslim's stance on Ahmediz's current position in the Islamic countries. If they don't spoil their religion.....you know and i know that they will be most tolerate people. I myself will treat them better than hindus or budhists.....since most of the Ahmediz are peaceful and law-obeying people. World needs peace......we should not taang araaying in other's religion.