Zalim jee!
Ab tuk kahaan thay aap???
yaar inhon nay mujhay ghairay rakhaa hai itnay din, aur aap ab tashreef laa rahe hain!!!!
anyways.. try contacting me on [email protected]
pleeeeez :)
anyways...
THIS THREAD IS TOO BIG, I AM STARTING A NEW THREAD, LETS MOVE THE DISCUSSION TO IT PLEASE.
[This message has been edited by someone else (edited 10-07-98).]
Dear Zalim-
In reference to your comments:
***"" "JESUS DIED A NATURAL DEATH"
The so called orthodox Muslim belief that a Jesus-look-alike was crucified instead of Jesus, and that Jesus was raised to heaven, to descend a latter day, has no support in the Holy Quran. The origin of this popular belief is from Christian sources.
<<<<<< According to the Holy Quran >>>>>>
The Quran is quite clear that Jesus has passed away, and gives no support to the concept of Jesus physically going to heaven. Before going into specific verses of Quran and references of Hadiths that refute this orthodox belief, it should be noted that Heaven is a spiritual state, which our souls experience after death but not before death. It is not a physical location beyond the atmosphere.""***
Quran says in Surah An-Nisa(4) Ayat 157-158:
And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allâh," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not *:
But Allâh raised him 'Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allâh is Ever AllPowerful, AllWise.
Any doubts, questions about Jesus being alive.
so long...
[This message has been edited by ts26418 (edited 10-07-98).]*
Asalamoalaikum Bro/Sis [ts26418]
Sorry for the late reply.
I dont have time to answer all your questions right now.. anyhow I will try to point out few objections in your translation. Please try to read Quran by yourself first, than go into tafseers.
I am really surprised to read your translation of the verse 157 and 158 of Sura An'Nissa. I dont know from which Quran you read this, right now I have in my hand the translation of Maulana Thanwi which is the most authentic translation in the Sunni world., and in this translation too there is no such words as;
"157. ......but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), ........"
before going into translation if you just read the arabic text you will certainly understand the meaning.. it says;
".....wa ma qatalahu wa ma salabuhu wa la kin shub bayha la hum...." aur nahin mara us ko aur na sooli dee us ko laykin unko shubay main dala gaya...
now tell me where would you fit those words?
anywaz in your next verse i.e 158, you said;
"158. But Allâh raised him 'Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens)......"
This verse is also translated very illogically. First in this verse you have confined the existance of God in one place by saying that "HE has raised him up towards Himself".. it means that God is present up in the sky and was not there on the earth. (na'oozobillah). Bur sir/madam our teaching says that God is much even nearer than your life vein (shah rag). He is present everywhere. to kya Khuda us wakt wahan nahin tha?
secondly in the same verse you mentioned that;
"..(and he is in the heavens)..."
according to teaching of the Holy Quran,
the Heaven is a spiritual state, which our souls experience after death but not before
death. It is not a physical location beyond the atmosphere. Moreover, no one can be expelled out of it.
Chapter 15, Al-Hijr, Verse 49.
" fatigue shall not touch them there, nor shall they ever be ejected therefrom"
Chapter 11, Hud, Verses 108-109
"abiding therein, so long as the heavens and the earth endure, excepting what thy Lord may will. Surely, thy Lord does bring about what He pleases."
"but as for those who will prove fortunate, they shall be in Heaven; abiding therein so long as the heavens endure and the earth, excepting what thy Lord may will - gift that shall not be cut off"
The verses I mentioned throw light on an important question in which Islam differs from other religion, viz. the question of salvation.
According to the Hindu religion, both Heaven and Hell possess a limited duration; and man, after undergoing the punishment, or reaping of the reward of his deeds, is sent back to this world.
Of the Semitic religions, Judaism denies Paradise to all non-Jews. Jews are regarded as almost free from the torture of Hell, whereas non-Jews will abide in it for ever.
Therefore it is important to know that abiding in Heaven is forever and once entered, no one can come ot of it.
Now the question is, if the Jesus(as)was accended to Heaven, then how can you prove in the light of Quran and sunnah that he will come again to this world?
See either you change the Quran or your change your interpretations.
will write you more on this laterz..
I close with thses words of the Promised Messiah, Mirza Gulam Ahmad (as)
"musalmano! yaad rakho kay Allah tala nay meray zarea tumhain yay khaber de hai, aur mai nay apna pa'yam pauncha deya hai. ub us ko sunna na sunna tumharay ikhteyaar mai hai. Yay sachi baat hai kay Hazrat Eesa aleh salam wafat pa chukay hain aur main Khuda tala ki kasam kha ker kahta hoon kay jo Maood aanay wala tha wo mai he hoon aur yay bhi pakki baat hai kay Islam ki zindagee Eesa kay mernay mai hai"
so long dear....
Allah Hafiz
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited 10-08-98).]
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited 10-08-98).]
ts,
hasnt this verse been discussed earlier in the discussion??
can u kindly read the discussion first?
why do we have to go in a discussion which has already been done?
Zalim-
You couldn’t face the truth b/c you didn’t want to. You’re blindly denying the truth but you failed to provide Qadiani version of these Ayat. What is the Ahmadi version?
Do not try to confuse & misguide yourself & other people by posting long and ambigious references which are based on shirk, self proclamation and misguidence.
Since you’ve failed to provide any logical & true quranic references, your arguments are, thus considered false & untruthful.
Here are the translation of the same 2 verses by M.H.Shakir, Yusuf Ali, and Marmaduke Mohammed Pickthall: Read carefully…
"004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
PICKTHAL: And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
SHAKIR: And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
004.158
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power,Wise;-
PICKTHAL: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise."
And here is the link:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html
“THERE IS NO MERCY FOR MUSHRIKS”
This stupid discussion is over from my side.
so long…
Assalamualaikum to all except Qadianis
The Qadianis always argue that Hazrat Isa (PBUH) cannot be up in heaven because one will go there as a spirit but not as a human.
May I say that Hazrat Muhammed (SAWS) went to Heaven and Hell in human form during Al-Miraj, so whats the problem with Hazrat
Isa (PBUH) staying in Heaven in human form.
If you Qadianis those not believe in Al-Miraj
then ofcourse you are not muslims but on the other hand if you belive then there is no excuse for you to not believe that Hazrat Isa is alive.
"This was in Bayt Lahm, where Prophet ^Isa (Jesus) was born. Then the buraq continued with the Messenger of Allah until they entered the city of Jerusalem. There the Prophet went to Masjid al-Aqsa. Outside was a ring used by the Messengers of Allah to tie their animals. The Prophet tied his buraq to this ring. Then the Prophet entered the masjid where Allah assembled for him all the Prophets--from Adam to ^Isa. Prophet Muhammad moved forward and led them all in prayer. This is an indication the Prophet is higher in status than all the rest of the prophets and messengers."
The above is an extract from a hadith. You can see that Hazrat Muhammed (SAWS) was the
last one in and led ALL prophets (including
nabi and rasool) in prayer. May I ask was
Mirza Gulam Ahmed Qadiani attending the
prayer too there if he was a nabi or prophet.
From the above we can see that Hazrat Muhammeed (SAWS) was the last and the greatest prophet of all and if anyone was
to come after him then he should have wait
for that Nabi or Rasool to come before
leading the prayers since Allah (SWT) mentioned in the Quran that ALL prophets
(nabi and rasool) were gathered there.
Assalmualaikum to all except the Qadianis.
Just wanted to add that Hazrat Adam (pbuh) and Bibi Hawa (pbuh) were both living in
heavens in human form before commiting sin.
So this is another point to prove that Hazrat Isa (pbuh) can live in heaven or anywere in human form.
To Qadianis:
The most important thing for you people is to
learn the character and READ the books of
Mirza Gulam Ahmed Qadiani. There is not need
to argue or prove anything from the Quran
since the Arabs and the muslim ummah of 1300
years before Mirza Gulam Ahmed can traslate
or explain the Quran better then him. (He
was just a very very little learned man history shows). You people are sticking to
the teaching of this men rather then believing the whole muslim ummahs and the
arabs including the grand imam of Khana Kabba
and Masjid Nabwi.
I wonder if you jamat have ever shown you the
books written by Mirza Gulam Ahmed Qadiani, if yes then sure you will have found his ugly
writings and his comments about the prophets
and the Sahabahs.
I have a question for you people. If you believe the chain of nabi is continous so if there is another person after Mirza Gulam
Ahmed claiming to be a nabi or Mehdi then
what are you people going to do? Change your
name and follow him or still follow your
Mirza Sahib? I can tell you that we muslims
will always stick to Khatme Nabuwat no
matter what happens and let us wait and see
who next the grand liar will appear.
ts my brother,
be patient,
not so quick.
i mean we're not running away or aything, i will answer all your questions, inshallah. i have a lot of respect for you and do not have anything against you. this is a debatable point, and we have to share our opinions with each other.
for a moment, forget that i am an ahmadi, and you are a sunni. lets be neutral, and try to look at the thing without being prejudiced or biased. i respect you as my brother, and i will try my best to understand your point of view.
i have seen that you dont like long replies, therefore i will try to keep it as short as i can, and try to talk point by point. but u must realize that this matter is a sensitive one, and sometimes the posts do get long.
"Since you've failed to provide any logical & true quranic references, your arguments are, thus considered false & untruthful."
My brother, why are you so quick in making conclusions? wait yaar, we gotta look at it, calmly. i have already given a lot of koranic references in this discussion, but u didnt read them i guess, so i will give them again.
okay,
-------------------------** Chapter four, verse 157 158 **-------------------------
i looked at the translations you have given, but you have to realize that they were biased ones. i will produce the arabic text infront of you, and i will show you the koranic proofs i have. then it is your choice to believe or disbelieve in whatever i say. okay?
i know you dont like discussion as far as religious beliefs are concerned, but you have written your opinion, and i request you to listen to the answer too. i dont ask you to believe in it. all i want to tell is that our opinion is , in our point of view, in accordance the koran.
here is the arabic verse:
bal raf'a hullah allaih wa kaan ullah o azeezan hakeema.
okay?
now the phrase to be discussed is,
bal raf'a hullah e allaih
the exact word rafa'hullah is the main source of discussion. While you people translate it as "picked up physically by allah and stay in the heaven", we translate it as " izzat denaa, darjaat bulund kerna".
now we have to discuss why we say our translation is the correct one.
1----
Our first and basic point is, that the word raf'a hullah alaih always means "izzat dena" . And we challenge anyone, to produce even a single verse from koran, or any text from any arabic literaruture, dictionary or peom, where the phrase "raf'ahullah allaih" means "to pick up physically" . It has been a hundred years and not even one text has been produced where it means what you say. However, everywhere, it has been seen that it is used in the meaning we are using it.
2-------
in order to understand the phrase, look at this hadith:
izaa tawaza'alabdu raf'ahullah-o-ilassamaa-isabiate
-( kanz-al-amaal book 2, s25)
as translated in urdu:
"jab koi shaks allah kee taraf tawazuh ikhtiaar kertaa hai, to "raf'ahullah-o-ilassamaa-isabiate"
now, if we translate "raf'ahullah" as "to pick up physically"
then from the above hadith, it will mean :
everybody who goes for "tawazuh" for allah, will be picked up by allah physically towards the heaven!
now, if u translate "raf'ahullah" your way, then the above hadith also implies that ALL good people of allah, ALL prophtets, ALL the good-doers will be picked up physically towards allah !
as we know this is not the case, there is no option but to believe that jesus is picked up physically by allah either!
3--------
the house of imran, verse 56:
yaa eesaa inni mutawaffaika wa rafe'uka...
note that wafaat is used first.. it is said, that first the death taked place, and then rafah will be given.
now that it is clear, that rafa' takes plave after the death, it is not correct to keep believing that jesus is still alive, and was picked up physically.
Because death takes place first!
4---------
surah al airaaf, verse 177,
"agar hum chahtay, to usay apnay nishaanaat kay zariye "rafa" ata farmaatay, magar woh zameen kee taraf jhuk gaya! "
Here the word rafa is also used, and the "kareena" of a direction against that of the earth is also given.
here all your so-called ulemaa believe that it means "izzat denaa" . then what is so special with jesus? why does the word change its meaning for him?
the above verse has cleared out what meaning of raf'a is correct and what is wrong.
5-------
Surah Marium (57)
Wa rafa'ana makanan aliyya
here too, the same word is used, then if it means "to physically pick up alive" than as this verse says, Hazrat Idrees is also picked up physically, alive!
but if u now see the meaning "izzat dena", then it correctly fits into the situation.
-----6
sorah aaraaf, verse 26,
it is said to the mankind:
' o mankind, Therein shall you live and therein shall you die and therefrom shall you be brought forth'
"ai bani no' insaan, zameen pur hee zindagi kay din guzaaro gay, aur zameen pur heetumharee mot ho gee!!!!!!!"
now do u want to believe that jesus is god?? surely not!! if he is human, then it is not possible for him to live half his life in earth, then go to heaven, come back and live the other half.
this is not possible according to koran, becoz:
' o mankind, Therein shall you live and therein shall you die and therefrom shall you be brought forth'
that sums up my opinion about the verse.
thank you for listening to me.
God bless you!
and if u want, i can once again explin all the koranic verses which i explained in the discussion before you, which prove that jesus is dead.
Muhammad ali ,
dearest brother,
It is very nice to see a change in your attitude.
this time you looked more intersted in the actual discussion. jazaakullah.
okay
you have a fairly strong point with you.
okay, first of all, your question;
"The above is an extract from a hadith. You can see that Hazrat Muhammed (SAWS) was the last one in and led ALL prophets (including nabi and rasool) in prayer. May I ask was Mirza Gulam Ahmed Qadiani attending the prayer too there if he was a nabi or prophet."
okay muhammad ali, the answer lies in your own extract! seems like you just need a careful reading or two and u will get it. your extract talks about all prophets from "Adam to Isa" , which are the ones who have passed already, it dont talk about those who are to come. If Mirza sahab was somewhere between "Adam and Eesa" then u surely wouldve seen his name in the list too!
now i have a question too. All the dead prophets met Muhammad rasoolullah, and Jesus was one of them too .. is it a coincidence?
not at all.
it is in accordance with the koranic verse:
"kad khalat min kablehirrusul"
or, all prophets before muhammad rasoolullah have died!
and jesus is among them too! miraaj proves that!
Now your second point, of either we believe or not in miraaj. we certainly do!
but we have our own point of view, which koran supports. Notice, that i will tell you the point of view, with proof from the koran, thus it is not that we have made up this point of view from ourselves.. i will proove it from koran okay?
We believe that it was a "kashaf" and Muhammad did not go to all those places physically.
You have only given the "extract" from the hadith, if you get a chance to read the orginal hadeeth , then you will find the words, "aankh khul gayee" in the end!
now i will use koran to prove that Muhammad rasoolullah can not climb the sky!
Watch the chapter, Bani Israel, verse 90-94.
u can read whatever translation u like, and u will find out, that it is said, that o prophet, if kufaar ask you to climb up the sky and then bring the book, only then will we believe you... then you shuld tell them, i am am only a man and a prophet, and allah does not allow me to climb the sky!
this verse proves our point of view, that mairaaj was a "kashaf" and not an actual physical incident.
and you can not completely ignore the verse i have mentioned.
you said, the one who dont believe in meraaj is a "kaafir"... i have told you my point of view about mairaaj, which i have proved with koran, and if u still think i am a kaafir, then it means you are calling me a kaafir becoz i believe in koran!
i just wrote this essay, and now i find a new post from you.. i have two things to say bhai muhammad ali, zara suno,
"There is not need to argue or prove anything from the Quran since the Arabs and the muslim ummah of 1300 years before Mirza Gulam Ahmed can traslate or explain the Quran better then him"
betaa jee, Which arabs are you talking about??
from the sahaaba, Hazrat ibne-abaas (for whom , Muhammad rasoolullah prayed god, to give him a special knowledge of koran) has said in his tafseer-e-koraan that jesus is dead!
Imam bokhari, imam ibn-e-hazam, imam malick, everybody said jesus is dead! There is no arabic scholar in the 1300 years that can compare to the knowledge of above mentioned ulemaa !!!
now what??
"He was just a very very little learned man history shows"
Our holy prophet Muhammad rasoolullah was also not able to read and write, but when allah gave him the knowledge, then nobody could compare to him in the whole universe!
hat i am trying to say is, When allah teaxhes someone, then we dont have to go for his college degrees!
you dont disagree with that do you???
now, more about "the arabic ulemaa of muslim-e-umaa" in the 1300 years:
----Hazrat ayesha:
"O people, do say that Muhammad rasoolullah is Khatam-un-nabiyeen, but dont say that there is no nabi after him!"
----kutb-ul-aktaab, imam rabbani mujaddad alif saani , Hazrat shekh Ahmad Farooki:
in maktoobaat-e-imam rabbani hazrat mujaddad aliph sani, book 1, muktab 301, s-432) he says,
that Muhammad rasoolullah is khaatam-un-nabiyeen, and after him, his "taab'ieen" can, by his "pairavi" and "viraasat" can get a nabuwwat, and it is not against his being the khatam un nabiyeen!
----Hazrat muhayyuddin ibn-e-arbi
in fatoohaat-e-mukkiya book 1, s-545:
we have known from darood-shareef, that in the Umaah, there can be men, who can get the status of nabi, but they wont bring a new shareeyat.
---- imam abdul wahaab sheraani:
in, al-yawakeet-o-aljawaahir, book3, s35,:
know it, nabuwwat is not closed, only the "tashree'ey" nabuwwat is closed!
----- hazrat muhayyuddin ibn-e-arbi:
in fatoohaat-e-makeyya, book 2, s 100, chapter 73--82:
nabuwwat will go on till the kayaamat day! only, "tahsree'ee nabuwwat" is closed.
--- Hazrat Shah wali ullah (r.a.)
in tafheemaat-e-illahiyaa , s- 53:
Hazrat muhammad, being "khatam-un-nabiyeen" means, there will be no nabi with a new "shareeyat" !
--Sheaikh abdulkaadir kurdistaani:
in takreeb-al-maraam, book 2, s-233:
"khatamun nabiyeen means, there will be no nabi with shareeyat"
these are enuff to say that this concept is not made up by Ahmadis, but it was already present in the muslim-e-ummah!
now, if you want to know moew, l start a new topic soon, where i will prove that nabuwwat can go on ! okay?
allah be your protector!
Abay yeh kia Qadiyani Qadiyani laga rakha hay, apnay deemagh mat kharab karo, i will tell u all a solution:
Now the basic difference i can see between Qadiyanis and Muslims is the translation of Quran. Qadiyanis won't leave their translation and same with the Muslims.
Is liay apnay apnay ghar jao aur aram karo.
My point of view is that no one can understand the meaning of Quran better than arabs, since Quran is also in Arabic language. Do u think we Pakistanis or any asian person whose language is not Arabi can translate it better. Well, i doubt.
One more thing, there are many many hadiths which do confirm the translation of Arabs. I think the muslims have a plus point for that, since the hadith approves their believes.
And who says there is a nabi after Muhammed pbuh, this is one of the most foolish things i have ever heard, its crystal clear from Quran and hadith that Muhammed pbuh was the last Prophet.
Now just see how much consistancy is there in the believes of the Muslims, they say Eisa pbuh is not dead, he was taken up, then they say Mohammed pbuh the last prophet and at the same time they say Eisa will come as a follower of Muhammed and not as a Nabi, thus Muhammed pbuh was the last prophet. So in this case, their believes are according to sunnah, sunnah is according to Quran.
But considering your case, hadith and Quran becomes against each other and Quranic verses declares the claim of Ghulam Ahmed wrong (last nabi) and so does the hadith proves him a liar. (as per sunnah their are signs when the messiha will come, how he will come. [hadith here are the authentic ones]
So u see, bewaqoofi ki bhi koi had hoti hay.
Get a life !!!
Assalamualaikum.
Dear Someone else,
What I was telling from that quranic verse
was not related to whether Hazrat Isa (pbuh) is alive or dead, what i was pointing is Allah (swt) gathered ALL prophets (nabi/rasool) before Hazrat Muhammed (pbuh) to let us know that he WAS the last and the GREATEST of all. Now whether Hazrat Isa
(pbuh) was alive or dead at that time is not of importance since I proved to you that as Hazrat Adam (pbuh) and Bibi Hawa (pbuh) can live in heaven in human form so shall Hazrat Isa (pbuh) too could have been alive at that
time.
{your extract talks about all prophets from "Adam to Isa" , which are the ones who have passed already, it dont talk about those who are to come. If Mirza sahab was somewhere between "Adam and Eesa" then u surely wouldve seen his name in the list too!}
The important thing to see is that WHY Allah
(swt) gathered ALL the prophets before Hazrat
Muhammed (pbuh)? If anyone was to come after
him in the status of nabi/rasool with such greatness that he will save the whole muslim ummah and have more than 10 million followers worldwide (your ahmadiya homepage claiming) then there
was no meaning of omitting him from that gathering?? Is he something very small
in the sight of Allah (swt) that his greatness is mentioned nowhere in the Quran nor was he gathered before all the previous prophets to let them know his comming?? Now it is up to you to decide whether Mirza Sahib could be a nabi/rasool after Hazrat Muhammed (pbuh) and I have nothing to say anymore.
{u can read whatever translation u like, and u will find out, that it is said, that o prophet, if kufaar ask you to climb up the sky and then bring the book, only then will we believe you... then you shuld tell them, i am am only a man and a prophet, and allah does not allow me to climb the sky!}
The above verse is very correct but please
note that without the PERMISSION of Allah
(swt) surely Hazrat Muhammed (pbuh) cannot
climb the sky nor do anything but on that occassion Allah (swt) provided all the means to Hazrat Muhammed (pbuh) (especially the horse "burqa" or something like that) to visit the Heaven and Hell the seven skys and Alqsa Mosque to meet ALL the previous prophets. You cannot take a verse from one
place and put in another place to prove your
point.
}from the sahaaba, Hazrat ibne-abaas (for whom , Muhammad rasoolullah prayed god, to give him a special knowledge of koran) has said in his tafseer-e-koraan that jesus is dead! Imam bokhari, imam ibn-e-hazam, imam malick, everybody said jesus is dead! There is no arabic scholar in the 1300 years that can compare to the knowledge of above mentioned ulemaa !!!
now what??}
If what you said above is true then the whole
muslim ummah would have become Ahmedi already , from where do you get this??
{There is not need
to argue or prove anything from the Quran
since the Arabs and the muslim ummah of 1300
years before Mirza Gulam Ahmed can traslate
or explain the Quran better then him. (He
was just a very very little learned man history shows). You people are sticking to
the teaching of this men rather then believing the whole muslim ummahs and the
arabs}
What I was pointing above is the way Mirza
Sahib translate the Quran will little
knowledge of Arabs/Islamic history. He has taken adavantage of the short and complicated
Quranic verses, which sometimes without the knowledge of Islamic history its difficult to understand even reading the translation. (example: the verse
which says Allah (swt) has taken him up and
you people say he was taken somewhere else)
Just look at yourself how you are twisting
the meanings of the Quran from the original
teachings of the great Ulema and the muslim arabs.
I just visited an Ahmadiya homepage and saw
some photos of Mirza Sahib which I find him
really ugly looking (look at his right eye)
Its not a personal attack from my side but
it just make me remember a hadith which
says that some arabs accepted Islam once
the saw Hazrat Muhammed (pbuh) because they
said that such a beautiful face couldnt
be of a liar but looking at Mirza Sahib,
he seems to look more like a ghost then
a human.
I found somebody saying that we know nothing
about the Quran from another topic and would
like to explain that we muslims (ex-Ahmedi)
are very much lazy and away from Islam, we only care about this world, make money
and enjoy life, we only come to fight or look up for things when we are being attacked so we look very unorganized but others are well prepared (like someone else). I only come to
realize the importance of saying something
here when I gone through some of the anti-ahmedi homepage which shows what Mirza
Gulam Ahmed Qadiani had said about us and
our beloved prophet Hazrat Mohammed (pbuh).
It's very disgusting certainly if you read
what this man had said about other prophets
and the Sahabas and the muslim Ummah of the past.
To be honest I have done my best to explain
what I know since my knowledge is very very
limited and a poor educational background
(you can see from my messages) so I'm
going to leave this topic but before I do
so I would like to make a dua (please
witness to this) that if I'm on the wrong
path and have wrongly accursed someone then
may Allah (swt) punish me in this world
and the hereafter and on the other hand
if Ahmedi are on the wrong path then may
Allah (swt) save whom He WILLS and punish
those liars whom are against the Quran and
the hadiths in this world and the hereafter
too.
May Allah (swt) show mercy on us and show
us the right path. Ameen.
In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate
ESCAPE FROM RABWA
Usman Barry
September 1995
I was born in England of Irish Catholic parents and became interested in comparative religion in my early twenties. After a trip to Morocco and a year spent in India, I became more and more attracted to Islam. As my appreciation developed into a desine for acceptance, I felt the need for Muslim company . During my stay in Copenhagen, Denmark, a quick look through the telephone directory showed only one mosque, ' The Ahmadiyya Islamic Mission', though I later discoverd that the Turks , Morrocans and The Pakistanis had places which they used as Mosques. This meant that any school or college that wanted to take students to a mosque, found only the Ahmadiyya Muslim Mission and the same applied to a would be convert like myself . It was my first encounter with the 'Ahmadiyya Efficiency', which today manifests itself in Satellite TV and Periodicals in many languages.
I was welcomed by the mosque goers, who were a mixture of Pakistanis and some Danish converts plus an American Musician of some note, Sahib Shihaab, who was well know in the Jazz world. I was working as a musician myself at the time and although I never actually joined them, they taught me to pray and gave me many books to read including an English translation of Quran by Muhammad Zafarulla Khan, which I found very interesting indeed. The translation I had before was by the unsubtle enemy of Islam , Greoge Sale.
After six months of praying the Friday prayers with the Qadianis of Copenhagen, I left Denmark to return to England. In Birmingham, to my dismay I found the Ahmadiyya Community to be much less organised , less serious and less intelligent than Coperhagen. For the mosque they had a very slapshod arrangement where hardly few people were coming for prayers. Disillusioned by such setup, I started going to the Birmingham's Main Mosque. Here I met several Jamaicans who had similar experience. They too had joined Ahmadiyya Movement thinking them to be Muslims but embraced Islam after discovering the truth. This was the first time someone had explained to me the difference between Ahmadiyyat and Islam. However I was still not sure.
My visits to Birmingham Mosque was of course, greeted with cries of horror by the Qadianis who were in contact with me. I was told frankly that such prayers would not be accepted. Ahmadis informed me that they are the only real Muslims and they are the only group in Islam accepted by the Westerners for their moderate views. The only other altenatives are the grave-worshiping, ignorant Barelvis on the one hand and the bomb-throwing fundamentalists on the other. Obviously that is a line that must work with many weakminded persons. It was at this time that a Biy'ah Form (an oath of allegiance to Mirza Ghulam) was presented to me for signing, which I signed, though my heart was not in it nor had my musician lifestyle changed much more than my giving up alcohol.
In the December of 1981, the Head of the Qadianis in London, one Mubarak Ahmad , called me and gave me a ticket for Karachi, telling me to attend the Jalsa Salana in Rabwa. I found my way to Rabwa via Karachi and Lahore and met members of the sect form all over the world, even an Arab or two. I spent my time with 2 Euro-Qadianis, a German (Ahmad somthing) )and an English man by the name of Luqman somebody . Both were married to Qadiani women and were thus effectively captured. Fortunately for me, I was already married and thus was spared this particular fitna . However it was suggested to me that since my wife was in the way of my religion I should leave her and I can have a nice Qadiani girl. I had three beautiful girls and I had no intention of leaving them.
I found the books of Mohammed Zafarulla Khan intersting, based as they were, on real Islam with the 'Promised Massiah kept well to the background. His translation of 'Riyadh as Saliheen' has the best English usage and is, as for as I know, acceptable.
However, it was the books of the Promised Messiah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, translated into English, that disturbed me . There was one particular revelation where this Promised Messiah saw in a dream a tree, with many white birds on it. He then heard a voice saying (in English), "I will give you a large party of Islam."
I wondered how God who revealed Quran in such eloquent, beautiful and faultless Arabic, could not manage a grammetically correct English sentence. I was reminded of this revelation while I was in Rabwa . We three Europeans were put on display to others as the white birds of the revelation. Naturally, I met all the top people of the Ahmadi clan. I found them all too glib, too prone to false smiles to be credable. I noted the wickedness in their habit of educating the sons of small qadiani farmers around Rabwa (eg sending them to Moscow or Romania with its cheap education) and then accepting donations of the aging gratified farmers' land, who by now has no son to help him with the hardwork. In this way, the empire of the Holy Family, as I heard them call, continues to expand.
After the Jalsa, I was compelled to visit the grave of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in Qadian as part of a religious requirement. I found people there most discourteous and ill-mannered and was glad to get out of that place.
As I mentioned, we three white birds met with Mirza Nasir Ahmad, the then second Khalifa, with a cameraman always present by his side, who would jump to take a snap as soon as someone of not comes to shake hands with him. I also met the present leader, Mirza Tahir Ahmad, who gave us a long talk on how everything in the West was wonderful and right , except for its morality of course, and how the West would have to look to Rabwah for guidance for its moral up lift .
I thought, could the Divinely Inspired and Supremely Successful Movement of Mohammed, The Messenger of Allah, culminate in a few boring, money-mad Pakistanis, trying to lead their followers into complete submission to the Kuffar (enemies of Islam)?
It seemed unlikely.
To me, all those whom I met, belonged to either of the two categories:
FOOLS, who had no idea what is going around them and
RASCALS who were well aware of their fraud in the name of Islam and were actively involved in corruption in their Jama'at
All in all, I'd had enough of this sneaky and underhand sect and made up my mind to abondon them as soon as possible. When I got back to England, I dropped the whole thing -- prayers, reading and everything and for two and half years put the idea of being a Muslim out of my head.
I came to the conclusion that if Ahmadiyyat was the true Islam,
then Islam was not for me.
The Sequel
I gave up the music business and rented a farm in Ireland. For several years I thought of Islam only occasionally. Then by Allah's Grace I met some of the Muslim community in Dublin and my wife and I embraced the real Islam in 1984 in Dublin Mosque.
Usman Barry
Islamic Information Centre
P O Box 5732
Dubai
United Arab Emirates
I dont know if the above is true but to
some extend it can be, maybe it can help
the Ahmadi to organize themselves more
carefully next time.
I have been going through this topic for a while. Nice work Mohammed Ali, Khush keeta'ee, cheeta laga'een. :)
My dearest brother Muhammad Ali,
It wouldve been extremely nice of you, to concentrate more on logic, and less on story-telling :)
okay, you have a fairly strong point, that we have a lot of respected arabic ulemaa from muslim-e-ummah, and they know more arabic then us, and they can tell us the truth. so taking your point into consideration, i am giving you the point of view of some ulemaa.
I will give you five examples in each case:
----------- jesus is dead:
1) Hazrat Ibn-e-abaas, (see bokhari kitaab-ul-tafseer)
2) Imam Bokhari, (his kitab-ul-tafseer)
3) Imam Maalick (see majma-ul-behaar, book 1 s-286)
4) Imam ibn-e-hazam (al muhalee book 1 s-23)
5) Hazrat imam hassan (tibkaat-e-ibn-e-saad book 3)
-----------A nabi can come:
1) Hazrat Ali (see dur-e-mansoor, ibn-al-anbaari-o- ibne-abee shaba)
2) Hazrat Ayesha (dur-e-mansoor, book5, also, majma-ul-behaar s-85)
3) Hazrat Shah Wali-ullah (tafheemaat-e-ilaahiyaa s-53)
4) Hazrat Mujaddad aleph sani (maktobaat-e-mujadad aleph sani, book 1, maktoob s-1'2)
5) Hazrat Muhayyudin Arabi (fatoohat-e-makayya book 2, s 3)
Now i have given you the opinion of ARABIC ulemaa, and therefore your point is no longer valid!
I mentioned the writings of these ulemaa, and you replied:
<""If what you said above is true then the whole muslim ummah would have become Ahmadi already , from where do you get this??"">
Now i have given you the exact reference to where i got this. Now please keep your word! you yourself have so much respect for these ulema, that you said, if they say so, everybody should believe them. now i have proved that they say so! do u still think the whole muslim-e-umaah should become Ahmadi now?? or have you changed your mind? :)
now, instead of posting hateful and provoking material to disgrace people becoz of there belief, you should rather pray to allah, to take you and me, and all of us to the right path!
Amen!
Hahaha, kia khub kisi ney kaha hay key ghadoon key sar per seeng nahin hotay :
Pyaray dost someone else, i have been looking this evidences from u which make me laugh.
1) Hazrat Ibn-e-abaas, (see bokhari kitaab-ul-tafseer)
2) Imam Bokhari, (his kitab-ul-tafseer)
3) Imam Maalick (see majma-ul-behaar, book 1 s-286)
if Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbas and Hazrat Bukhari had the same idea that Jesus is dead, i doubt Hazrat Bukhari would have added all those hadiths in his sahih bukhari about jesus (that he is alive). Its so foolish of u to say that he considered jesus dead and at the same time he is including the hadiths which say jesus is alive.
Imam malik, man if u were true than all malkees would have been ahmedis, BUT THEY ARE NOT!!.
U said :
-----------A nabi can come:
1) Hazrat Ali (see dur-e-mansoor, ibn-al-anbaari-o- ibne-abee shaba)
2) Hazrat Ayesha (dur-e-mansoor, book5, also, majma-ul-behaar s-85)
3) Hazrat Shah Wali-ullah (tafheemaat-e-ilaahiyaa s-53)
4) Hazrat Mujaddad aleph sani (maktobaat-e-mujadad aleph sani, book 1, maktoob s-1'2)
5) Hazrat Muhayyudin Arabi (fatoohat-e-makayya book 2, s 3)
All these proofs are cancelled because Mohammed pbuh said there is no nabi after me. If there was any one to follow in any form, then he would have said that a nabi will come who will be a nabi only but not with a shariaat.
NOW JUST STOP GIVING THESE FALSE EVIDENCE FOR YOUR WRONG FAITH. MIRZA GHULAM AHMED WAS A BIG LIAR AND A LOSER.
Mohammed Ali : Wanna add something !
Casper. (man sometimes i am not friendly at all, hehe).
Hahahaha!!!
haaaaahahahahahah!!!
its funny!!
haahahahah!!
you yourself said that we should go for arabic ulema!! now i hace produced their proof, and you have changed your words???
hahahaha!!!!
yaaro tumhara jawaab nahee!!!
khoodi baat keh kay, khoodi saaf mukar gaye??
aap nay apnay alfaaz main kahaa thaa:
"My point of view is that no one can understand the meaning of Quran better than arabs, since Quran is also in Arabic language. "
to ab apni baat pay to pooray utrain mere bhai jaan!!
jo shaks apni kahee huwee baat hee na maanay, woh ulemaa kee baat kyaa maanay ga!
yaar this is height! i mean what is the reason of changing your words??
the proof is there!
it has been noticed, that you yourself have failed to produce even ONE proof of what you say! and i have produced five in ezch case!
----------- jesus is dead:
1) Hazrat Ibn-e-abaas, (see bokhari kitaab-ul-tafseer)
2) Imam Bokhari, (his kitab-ul-tafseer)
3) Imam Maalick (see majma-ul-behaar, book 1 s-286)
4) Imam ibn-e-hazam (al muhalee book 1 s-23)
5) Hazrat imam hassan (tibkaat-e-ibn-e-saad book 3)
-----------A nabi can come:
1) Hazrat Ali (see dur-e-mansoor, ibn-al-anbaari-o- ibne-abee shaba)
2) Hazrat Ayesha (dur-e-mansoor, book5, also, majma-ul-behaar s-85)
3) Hazrat Shah Wali-ullah (tafheemaat-e-ilaahiyaa s-53)
4) Hazrat Mujaddad aleph sani (maktobaat-e-mujadad aleph sani, book 1, maktoob s-1'2)
5) Hazrat Muhayyudin Arabi (fatoohat-e-makayya book 2, s 3)
i have produced the proof infront of you.
everybody please note:
it is THEM who decided that we should go for arabic ulemaa!!
now i have given CRYSTAL CLEAR PROOFS what these ulemaa have said, and i have pointed out even the chapter numbers of the books!
now they stand nowhere!
You have done a few questions, but i will not dare to answer ANY of them, becoz when i have brought forth the words of these great ulemaa, i stand nowhere infront of them!
when ulemaa have said one thing! and it is stil present in their books, then how can you negate it?? one thing is there! it is said! and it counts!!
I HAVE TOLD YOU WHERE THE ULEMAA SAID THOSE WORDS, NOW IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AGAINST IT, THEN YOU ARE NOT QUESTIONING MY KNOWLEDGE, YOU ARE QUESTIONING THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE ULEMAA!!
in the books i have mentioned, the ulemaa have clearly explained those Koranic verses and ahadith which you are talking about!
so theres nowhere to run now!!
when i myself talked about the meanings of koran and hadith, you said that we should only listen to arabic ulemaa!
now i have produced the words of arabic ulemaa!!
so dont try to find any excuses now!
the ones who see, have seen how you have changed your words!
i quote both of you one by one, :
friendly ghost:
"My point of view is that no one can understand the meaning of Quran better than arabs, since Quran is also in Arabic language. "
Muhammas ali:
"If what you said above is true then the whole muslim ummah would have become Ahmadi already , from where do you get this??"
Musalmaan kee aik zubaan!
now the discussion is over from my side,
becoz,
I HAVE TOLD YOU WHERE THE ULEMAA SAID THOSE WORDS, NOW IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AGAINST IT, THEN YOU ARE NOT QUESTIONING MY KNOWLEDGE, YOU ARE QUESTIONING THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE ULEMAA!!
Botay dand na nikal tay kaddi saaf vi kerlia ker !!
Musalmanoo(n) ki eik zuban
Mirza Ghulam jhoota insan
Dear someone else,
I have been noticing through out the post u have been repeating the same thing again n again. And i think u have not read my previous post with u'r eyes fully open, where i have PROVED THAT ALL THE EVIDENCES U R GIVING ARE WRONG AND NOT AUTHENTIC. Ibn-e-abbas didn't say Hazrat Eisa is dead, if he would have said that and if bukhari has copied this in his tafseer then Bukhari would not written so many hadiths about jesus being alive. So is the case with Imam Malik, its an ilzam on him, if u were true all Malkees would have been Ahmedis.
Regarding the last nabi, dear koi aur, its CRYSTAL CLEAR from Quran and Muhammed pbuh's authentic hadiths that there is no nabi after him, so do u want us to believe in your unauthentic references?? and not believe in Quran and Muhammed pbuh.
Repeating again and again is not gonna help. So, now either keep u'r dirty mouth shut or agree that Mirza was a Shaitan.
Your choice !!!
ta ta
Casper
Friendly ghost my dear!
itnaa gussaa bhee achaa nahee..
you want to talk about koran and hadith! right?
aap kay apnay alfaaz hain:
"My point of view is that no one can understand the meaning of Quran better than arabs, since Quran is also in Arabic language. "
so it is proved that you yourself said whatever ulemaa say is right!
and you changed your words now!!
jo shaks apni hee baat say muker jaye, woh doosron ko jhoota kehtaa achaa nahee lagtaa!
aap kay sawaal kay jawaab:
question 1: "Ibn-e-abbas didn't say Hazrat Eisa is dead, if he would have said that and if bukhari has copied this in his tafseer then Bukhari would not written so many hadiths about jesus being alive."
answer: please read bokhari kitaabul tafseer before saying anything! bokhari kitaabul tafseer is a SACRED SUNNI BOOK and if you point out any mistakes in it, then you should aske your own maulvis!
i have given you the reference, and i challenge you to go and see it, and it is written there!
question 2: "So is the case with Imam Malik, its an ilzam on him, if u were true all Malkees would have been Ahmedis."
answer: please read "majma-ul-bihaar" where it is written in a CRYSTAL CLEAR language, that imama malick says jesus is DEAD!
so your questions can better be answered by the malkees!
i have the same question as you, when it is written that imam malick said jesus is dead, then why dont the malkees not believe in him? thats exactly what i am trying to say!
when your famous ulemaas have written those words, then why dont you believe in them?
question 3: "Regarding the last nabi, dear koi aur, its CRYSTAL CLEAR from Quran and Muhammed pbuh's authentic hadiths that there is no nabi after him, so do u want us to believe in your unauthentic references?? and not believe in Quran and Muhammed pbuh."
answer: The ulemaa i have mentioned KNOW MORE KORAN AND HADITH THAN YOU! so whatever they have said, they said it in the light of koranic verses and ahadith!
aap ka apnaa kaul hai:
"My point of view is that no one can understand the meaning of Quran better than arabs, since Quran is also in Arabic language"
yeh aap apnay alfaaz kay hee khilaaf bol gaye???
I HAVE CRYSTAL CLEAR PROVES FROM THE KORAN, AND HADITH TOO, WHICH I HAVE MENTIONED IN THE POSTS BEFORE YOU CAME, AND THEY ARE OPEN FOR EVERYONE TO READ!
I WILL NOT EXPLAIN KORANIC VERSES OR HADITH, BECOZ THE ARABIC ULEMAA HAVE DONE IT QUITE NICELY!
aur aap nay khoodi kahaa hai:
"My point of view is that no one can understand the meaning of Quran better than arabs, since Quran is also in Arabic language"
==============================
now i am actually stopping this discussion with you becoz of three reasons:
1) the one who doesnt even believe in HIS OWN WORDS, how will he believe in me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) Now as it is evident to all the readers of the discussion, you have really really got into a situation where you donr have any point left, so you are calling "jhoota" to all the ulemaa too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3) Another consequence of you not having any point left is .. that you are now coming to DIRTY LANGAUGE!
such as:
"Botay dand na nikal tay kaddi saaf vi kerlia ker !!"
"So, now either keep u'r dirty mouth shut or agree that Mirza was a Shaitan. "
ALL READERS BEAR WITNESS ON THE KAYAAMAT DAY!
now if this is your state of affairs, that YOU HAVE NOT EVEN PRODUCED A SINGLE PROOF! and all you are doing is swearing at me!!
bus yehi aata hai naa aap ko?? kay main jab aap say koran-o-hadith kee baatain keroon, to aap kop jawaab main gaaliaan hee soojhti hain?????? kyaa allah say khauf na aaya, kay jub itnay sacred topic pay discussion ker rahe hain, to kus main bee gaalion say baaz nahee aate?? allah say dero yaa, koraan ko chor ker gaalion say discussion na kero!
surah al-nisa verse 149:
allah taala yeh pasand nahee kertaa kay khulam khulaa sakht kalaami kee jaye
surah al-inaam, verse 109:
aur un kay maboodaan-e-baatila ko bhee gaali mut do
agar aap ka maulwi yehee sikhaata hai kay logon ko gaaliaan nikaalo, to allah ka laakh laakh shuker hai main ahmadi hoon!
kyyonke humain to yeh sikhaatay hain!
gaaliaan sun kay duwaa do,
pa kay dukh araam do,
kibr kee aadat jo dekho,
the end!
[This message has been edited by someone else (edited 10-14-98).]
Hey wait, don't run!
Acha, u need proofs haan!! OK, here u go:
FROM QURAN:
Surat Al Maeeda - 117
Ma qultu lahum illa ma' … falamma tawaffaitani kunta … kulli sha'in shaheed.
YUSUFALI: "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
PICKTHAL: I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.
Surat Alnisa - Ayat 157
Wa qaulaihem inna qatalna ….. wa ma qataluhu yaqeena.
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
PICKTHAL: And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
SHAKIR: And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
Surat Alnisa - Ayat 158
Bar rafa'ahullahu alaihe wa kanallahu azizan hakeema. [rafay = uthana]
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
PICKTHAL: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Surat Al-Imran - Ayat 55
Is qal allahu ya eisa inni mutawaffiqa wa rafioka alaiyya ….. fehe takhtalefoon. [mutawaffiqa = qabz kia(yahan is lafz ka matlab marna nahin hay) , rafay = uthana].
YUSUFALI: Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
PICKTHAL: (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.
SHAKIR: And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.
Surah Nisa (159)
Wa immin ahlilkitabi … Alaihim shaheeda.
PICKTHAL: There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them -
SHAKIR: And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them.
FROM SUNNAH:
Sahih Bukhari - Volume 3, Book 34, Number 425:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts.
Sahih Bukhari - Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).
Sahih Muslim - Book 1, Number 0293:
Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: A section of my people will not cease fighting for the Truth and will prevail till the Day of Resurrection. He said: Jesus son of Mary would then descend and their (Muslims') commander would invite him to come and lead them in prayer, but he would say: No, some amongst you are commanders over some (amongst you). This is the honour from Allah for this Ummah.
Sahih Muslim - Book 40, Number 6924:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Last Hour will not come until the Romans land at al-A'maq or in Dabiq. An army consisting of the best (soldiers) of the people on Earth at that time will come from Medina (to oppose them).
When they arrange themselves in ranks, the Romans will say: Do not stand between us and those (Muslims) who took prisoners from among us. Let us fight them. The Muslims will say: Nay, by Allah, we shall never turn aside from you and from our brethren so that you may fight them.
They will then fight and a third (part) of the army, whom Allah will never forgive, will run away. A third (part of the army), which will be constituted of excellent martyrs in Allah's eyes, would be killed. The third who will never be put on trial will win and they will be the conquerors of Constantinople.
As they are busy in distributing the spoils of war (amongst themselves) after hanging their swords by the olive trees, Satan will cry: The Dajjal has taken your place among your families. They will then come out, but it will be of no avail. When they reach Syria, he will come out while they are still preparing themselves for battle, drawing up the ranks.
Certainly, the time of prayer will come and then Jesus (peace_be_upon_him), son of Mary, descend and will lead them in prayer. When the enemy of Allah see him, it will (disappear) just as salt dissolves in water and if he (Jesus) were not to confront them at all, even then it would dissolve completely. Allah would kill them by his hand and he would show them their blood on his lance (the lance of Jesus Christ).
Sahih Muslim - Book 40, Number 6931:
Narrated Hudhayfah ibn Usayd Ghifari:
Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) came to us all of a sudden as we were (busy in a discussion) He said: What do you discuss about? (the Companions) said: We are discussing about the Last Hour.
Thereupon he said: It will not come until you see ten signs before and (in this connection) he made a mention of the smoke, Dajjal, the beast, the rising of the sun from the west, the descent of Jesus son of Mary (Allah be pleased with him), The Gog and Magog, and landslides in three places, one in the east, one in the west and one in Arabia at the end of which fire would burn forth from the Yemen, and would drive people to the place of their assembly.
Sahih Muslim - Book 40, Number 7015:
Narrated An-Nawwas ibn Sam'an:
Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) mentioned of the Dajjal one day in the morning. He sometimes described him as insignificant and sometimes described (his turmoil) as very significant (and we felt) as if he were in the cluster of the date-palm trees. When we went to him (to the Holy Prophet) in the evening and he read (the signs of fear) on our faces, he said: What is the matter with you? We said: Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) you mentioned the Dajjal this morning (sometimes describing him) as insignificant and sometimes very important, until we began to think he was present in some (nearly) part of the cluster of the date-palm trees.
So he said: I harbour fear in regard to you in so many other things besides the Dajjal. If he comes forth while I am among you, I shall contend with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth while I am not among you, a man must contend on his own behalf and Allah will take care of every Muslim on my behalf (and safeguard him against his evil). He (the Dajjal) will be a young man with twisted, cropped hair, and a blind eye. I compare him with AbdulUzza ibn Qatan. He who among you will survive to see him should recite over him the opening verses of Surah al-Kahf (xviii). He will appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and will spread mischief right and left. O servant of Allah! Adhere (to the path of Truth).
We said: Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him), how long will he stay on Earth? He said: For forty days, one day like a year, one day like a month, one day like a week, and the rest of the days will be like your days. We said: Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) will one day's prayer suffice for the prayers of the day equal to one year? Thereupon he said: No, but you must make an estimate of the time (and then observe prayer).
We said: Allah's apostle (peace_be_upon_him) how quickly will he walk upon the earth? Thereupon he said: Like cloud driven by the wind. He will come to the people and invite them (to a wrong religion); they will affirm their faith in him and respond to him. He will then give a command to the sky: there will be rainfall upon the Earth and it will grow crops. Then in the evening, their pasturing animals will come to them with their humps very high, their udders full of milk and their flanks distended. He will then come to another people and invite them. But they will reject him so he will go away from them; they will have a drought and nothing will be left with them in the form of wealth.
He will then walk through the desert and say to it: Bring forth your treasures. The treasures will come out and gather before him like a swarm of bees. He will then call someone in the flush of youth, strike him with the sword, cut him into two pieces and (make these pieces lie at the distance which is generally between the archer and his target.
He will then call (that young man) and he will come forward laughing with his face gleaming (with happiness). It will at this very time that Allah will send Christ, son of Mary. He will descend at the white minaret on the eastern side of Damascus, wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he lowers his head, there will fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he raises it up, beads like pearls will scatter from it. Every non-believer who smells the odour of his body will die and his breath will reach as far as he is able to see. He will then search for him (Dajjal) until he catches hold of him at the gate of Ludd and kills him.
Then a people whom Allah had protected will come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he will wipe their faces and inform them of their ranks in Paradise. It will be under such conditions that Allah will reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from among My servants such people against whom none will be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah will send Gog and Magog and they will swarm down from every slope. The first of them will pass the lake of Tiberias and drink out of it. And when the last of them passes, he will say: There was once water there.
Jesus and his companions will then be besieged here (at Tur, and they will be so hard pressed) that the head of the ox will be dearer to them than one hundred dinars. Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him), Jesus, and his companions will supplicate Allah, Who will send to them insects (which will attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish as one single person. Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him), Jesus, and his companions, then come down to Earth and they will not find on Earth as much space as a single span that is not filled with putrefaction and stench. Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him), Jesus, and his companions will then beseech Allah who will send birds whose necks would be like those of Bactrian camels and they will carry them away and throw them where Allah wills.
Then Allah will send rain which no house of mud-bricks or (tent of) camel-hair will keep out and it will wash the Earth until it resembles a mirror. Then the Earth will be told to bring forth its fruit and restore its blessing and, as a result thereof, there will grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group of people will be able to eat it and seek shelter under its skin, a dairy cow will give so much milk that a whole party will be able to drink it. The milking camel will give such (a large quantity of) milk that the whole tribe will be able to drink from it, and the milking-sheep will give so much milk that the whole family will be able to drink from it. At that time Allah will send a pleasant wind which will soothe (people) even under their armpits. He will take the life of every Muslim and only the wicked will survive who will commit adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come to them.
Sahih Muslim - Book 40, Number 7023:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr:
Someone came to him and said: What is this hadith that you narrate that the Last Hour will come at a certain time? Thereupon he said: Hallowed be Allah, there is no god but Allah (or words to the same effect). I have decided that I shall not narrate anything to anyone now. I have only said that you will see after some time an important event: that the (sacred) House (Ka'bah) will be burnt and it definitely happen.
He then reported that Allah's Messenger (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Dajjal will appear in my Ummah and he will stay (in the world) for forty--I cannot say whether he meant forty days, forty months or forty years. Allah will then send Jesus, son of Mary, who will resemble Urwah ibn Mas'ud. He (Jesus Christ) will chase him and kill him. Then people will live for seven years, during which time there will be no rancour between any two persons. After that Allah will send a cold wind from the direction of Syria. None will survive on Earth, having a speck of good in him or faith in him: he will die. Even if some among you were to enter the innermost part of the mountain, this wind would reach that place also and cause your death.
I heard Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: Only the wicked people will survive and they will be as careless as birds with the characteristics of beasts. They will never appreciate good nor condemn evil. Then Satan will come to them, in human form, and would say: Don't you respond? They will say: What do you order us to do? He will command them to worship the idols but, in spite of this, they will have an abundance of sustenance and lead comfortable lives. Then the trumpet will be blown and he who hears it will bend his neck to one side and raise it from the other side. The first one to hear that trumpet will be the person who is busy in setting right the cistern meant for supplying water to the camels. He will faint and the other people will also faint. Then Allah will send or He will cause to be sent rain which will be like dew and there will grow out of it the bodies of people.
Then the second trumpet will be blown and they will stand up and begin to look (around). Then it will be said: O people, go to your Lord. They will be made to stand there and they will be questioned. Then it will be said: Bring out a group (of them) for the Hell-Fire. It will be asked: How much? It will be said: Nine hundred and ninety-nine out of one thousand for the Hell-Fire. That will be the day that will make the children old because of its terror and that will be the day about which it has been said: "On the day when the shank will be uncovered".
Sunan Abu Dawood
Book 37, Number 4310:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace_be_upon_him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.
So, what do u say now, or do u not accept this evidences from QURAN and SUNNAH. OR will you say all these are not authentic.
Just look at u, where do u stand, u r denying everything just like the Quraish did, they all knew Mohammed pbuh was right but did not accepted islam b'cos there forefathers used to do it.
As far as my statement is concerned :
"My point of view is that no one can understand the meaning of Quran better than arabs, since Quran is also in Arabic language"
I am firm on it. But i am very much surprized that u know only TEN ARABS, agar aap key jisam ki uper wali manzil main brain jaise koi cheez hay, then u can very well see, Thousands of Arab Ulama have passed and non of them believed Jesus is dead. SO KEEP ALL U'R UNUTHENTIC BELIEVES WITH YOU.
And when did i swear at u, konsi gali dee hay tujhay. As far as Mirza is concerned i will repeat 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 times HE WAS A LIAR, A JHOOTA.
Don't wanna believe, don't believe, all the muslims believe it.
Now u can't run n e where, u have to accept that u'r sick mentally retarded community is based on the sick believes of a sick man i.e. mirza ghulam ahmed.
Someoneelse I have a few questions:
Do you beleive in One God?
Do You beleive that Muhuammad was the messenger of God?
Do you beleive in Namaz, Roza, Haj and Zakat?
If you answered Yes to all the three questions then BY GOD YOU ARE A MUSLIM BY FAITH and no Alim Mullah Sunni , Shia , Aghakhani, Barelvi can deny it.
SuperMan
Assalamualaikum.
To superman:
Hello, I would like to tell you that what you
have asked 'someone else' is correct but not
enough to be a muslim. I tell you that a
munafik also believe and do what you have
said but they are still regarded kafir.
The other thing is that believing in Khatme
Nabuwat is a criteria for being a muslim
too thats why Hazrat Muhammed (pbuh) mentioned specifically that there will be no
prophets comming after him and that there
will be 30 grand liars comming after him who
will claim to be a prophet (nabi/rasool).
Now the funny thing is that when you read
the whole forum you will feel that these
people (Qadiani/Ahmedi) have little difference from us because they only talk
about Quran, hadith and sunnah etc BUT they
will not talk about their founder Mirza
Gulam Ahmed Qadiani. This man, not only claim
to be a prophet but many many things else which i will summon it up below:
The Qur'an and Sunnah are the only two sources for the essential beliefs of those people who call themselves Muslims.
What are those beliefs? The most important one is that there is no deity other than Allah. This is the first half of the attestation of every Muslim, the second half being that Muhammad is Allah's Prophet. There are a few other fundamental principles that a Muslim is required to accept, but further information is available on this site.
The Ahmadiyya Movement, which originated in the Indian subcontinent under the patronage of the British colonialists, espouses beliefs which leave no doubt as to their apostacy from Islam. Among their erroneous beliefs is their denial of the finality of Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah on him), an article of faith endorsed by the Qur'an and Hadith reports as well as the consensus of the Companions and scholars.
The Qur'an states (translation):
"O people! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Messenger of Allah and the last in the line of Prophets. And Allah is aware of everything." (Al-Ahzab:40)
The true Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, observed:
"The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me." (Sahih Bukhari)
The Ahmadiyyas are followers of a certain Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian who lay claim to prophethood and used fabricated Hadith reports and twisted meanings of some Qur'anic verses to support himself. However, the true Prophet of Islam warned of this danger explicitly,
"The Hour will not come ... until nearly thirty "dajjals" (liars) appear, each one claiming to be a messenger from Allah." (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)
Shortly after the death of Prophet Muhammad, a man named Musailama, a claimant to prophethood, was fought against together with his followers for their apostacy. It is worth noting that Musailama did not deny the prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) and nor did his followers. It is also worth noting that it was misinformation that led the tribe of Banu Hunaifa to accept Musailama's false claims. Nevertheless, the consensus of the companions was to declare them apostates and wage a war against them. This is evidence enough to declare the Ahmadiyyas as non-Muslims. For a more thorough treatment of this subject consult this article.
Another example of the Ahmadiyya's rejection of the Qur'an and Sunnah is their contention that Jesus died, and that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was an incarnation of Jesus. In fact, according to the 1985 Encyclopaedia Britannica, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be not only Jesus but Prophet Muhammad, the Mahdi, and the Hindu god Krishna. It suffices to refer back to the essence of Islam which is the Uniqueness of God: any concept of man becoming god, worse yet a Hindu god who is one out of many, is false according to the Qur'an. On this, Islam is uncomprising, hence this error of the Ahmadiyyas is the foremost indication of their exit from Islam. Finally, the Ahmadiyyas also rejected jihad, a tactic which was designed to eliminate Muslim resistance to British colonialist rule. For a more detailed exposition on Ahmadiyyas, check this site out.
WHO WAS MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD QADIANI ?
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born in a Muslim family in the North Indian village of Qadian in 1839. He recieved some religious education at home. He suffered from a variety of physical and mental illnesses of various kind and had a habit of taking OPIUM and TONIC WINE. Under the influence of British Rulers of India he sold his faith for petty wordly gains. He claimed to be the Promised Messiah, Mahdi, Prophet and the Second Advent of Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him), who has come again in the from of Mirza to propagate Islam. He claimed that he recieve WAHI (Revelation) and named BRAHEEN-e-AHMADIYYAH as the BOOK of GOD. Britishers were facing difficulties in India because of the spirit of Jehad in Muslims and at their instigation, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote books and pamphlets in which he ABROGATED JEHAD and made LOYALTY TO THE BRITISH RULERS AN ARTICLE OF FAITH. Mirza Ghulam formed the AHMADIYYAH MOVEMENT in 1889 and called his follwers AHMADI MUSLIMS. He labelled ALL THOSE WHO DID NOT ACCEPT HIM AND DID NOT ACCEPT HIS PROPHETHOOD as BASTARDS (children of prostitutes). Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died in 1908 but Ahmadiyyah Movement has continued to flourish ever since; earlier under the patronage of British Masters and now the US and other anti-Muslim Governments.
UN-ISLAMIC BELIEFS OF MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD:
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote 80 books during his life time, which provides an excellent insight into the mind of the man and how with passage of time his faith has evolved from Islam to Apostacy and Infedility. 'ROOHANI KHAZAIN' is the title for the collection of all the books by Mirza Ghulam, printed by the Ahmadiyya Movement Headquarter in London.
Mirza was born in a Muslim family. His early books therefore contained same beliefs as those of any other Sunni Muslim. But with the passage of time his beliefs underwent a dramatic change and his writings became more and more heretical and un-Islamic. However in an attempt to prove that Mirza Ghulam and Ahmadis are also Sunni Muslims, Ahmadiyyah Movement's propaganda literature usually give quotations from his earlier books. Ahmadis will mostly talk of Holy Quran and Hadith keeping Mirza Ghulam well in the background and usually presenting him as a Reformer or a Mujaddid or Mahdi Or Messiah, depending on which type of people they are preaching to. Mirza Ghulam's claims to Prophehood are not discussed.
Following are some extracts from the books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad which provided the basis for Islamic Scholars to declare him and his followers Kafir, Apostate and out of the fold of Islam:
Mirza Ghulam says (Extracts from Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain, vol 3 pp.114-472):
Holy Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) did not understand the meaning of Surah AlZilzal.
Other Prophets have also made mistakes and lied. (Mirza trying to justify his false statements and unfulfilled prophecies - Author)
Hazrath Mohammad's Revelation also turned out to be wrong.
Revelation did not inform Hazrath Mohammad (pbuh) about Ibne Maryam, Dajjal, Khare Dajjal, Yajoog Majoog and Daabatul Ardh.
Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya is referred to as the Book of God in various other books by Mirza Ghulam eg. Roohani Khazain vol.22 p.502.
" 'Inna Anzalnaaho Qareeban min alQadian wa bil Haq anzalnaahu No doubt we have sent him (Mirza) near Qadian and with truth we have sent him'; . . . this revelation which has been published in Braheene Ahmadiyya as well, is clearly and loudly revealing that the name of Qadian is definitely mentioned in Quran or Hadith as a prophecy."
Names of Makkah, Madina and Qadian are mentioned with respect in Holy Quran.
Holy Quran is full of obscene words. {Mirza trying to justify his foul language that he used against his opponents
Mirza Ghulam claimed that :
He was the second advent of Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and better and superior than the first coming (Roohani Khazain vol 16 pp.272)
Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has come again in this world as Mirza Ghulam to propagate Islam. (Roohani Khazain vol.17 p.249)
Ahmadis should not differentiate between Mirza Ghulam and Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) because "Anyone who differentiate between me and Mustafa (pbuh) has not seen me and not recognized me." (Roohani Khazain vol 16 pp.171).
Mirza's WAHI told him : "'Muhammadur Rasoolullah wallazeena ma'ahoo ashiddaohoo' ala alkuffar rohamao bainahum' in this Wahi God has named me Muhammad and Rasoolullah." (Roohani Khazain vol 18 pp.207)
Those who join Mirza's Jama'at becomes a SAHABI of Rasoolullah. (Roohani Khazain vol 16 pp.258-259)
Since Mirza Ghulam is none other than Holy Prophet Muhmmad (pbuh) himself, therefore when an Ahmadi recites KALIMA TAYYEBAH, by Muhammadur Rasoolullah he means Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani. (Kalimat al Fasl by Mirza Basheer Ahmad s/o Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani)
From Mirza s/o Chiragh Bibi to Jesus s/o Mary:
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the son of Chiragh Bibi but he claimed that he is Eisa Ibne Maryam. He said that at first God converted him into Maryam for two years. After two years, God made him pregnant by blowing the soul of Eisa into him; he remained pregnant for 10 months, after whcih God converted him into Eisa. This is how he became Maryam as well as Eisa ibne Maryam. (Rooahni Khazain vol 19 pp. 87-89)
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed that:
He was Maseel Maseeh that is he has certain qualities which resemled like Eisa ibne Maryam (Roohani Khazain vol 1 p. 593).
Hazrat Eisa (pbuh) was the son of Yousuf Najjar (Roohani Khazain vol 3 pp. 254).
Hazrat Eisa is dead and he will not come again. (Rooahni Khazain vol.3 p.402)
Jesus (Hazrat Eisa) was a habitual liar, had a habit of uttering obscenities, an alcoholic, gluttunous and a wicked person, neither a pious man nor a seeker of truth, he was a proud man and a self-conceited person who claimed divinity. (Roohani Khazain vol 9 p.387, vol.11 p.289).
"The fact is that Hazrat Eisa did not perform any miracles." (Roohani Khazain vol 11 p. 290-291)
"Three grandmothers of Hazrat Eisa were FORNICATORS and PROSTITUTES, from whose blood the body of Jesus came into being." (Roohani Khazain 11 p.291)
"Hazrat Eisa had become insane due to epilepsy." (Roohani Khazain vol 9 p. 417)
"I wish Hazrat Eisa had not come in this world." (Roohani Khazain vol 9 p. 417)
"I am better than Eisa ibne Maryam." (Roohani Khazain vol 1 p.593)
"I have certain qualities resembling Jesus .....my nature and the nature of Jesus resembles so much as if two pieces of the same atom or like two seeds of the same tree." (Roohani Khazain vol.1 p.593)
Mirza boasted that:
"Quran is God's Book and the words of my mouth." (Advertisment dated 15th March 1897, Roohani Khazain vol 22 p. 87)
"I believe in my WAHI as I believe in Quran and Torah." (Roohani Khazain vol.17 p.454)
"The basis for our claim is not Hadith but Quran and that WAHI which comes to us. Yes in support we also quote those Hadith which are according to Quran and DO NOT CONTRADICT MY WAHI. As for the REST OF THE HADITHs, I THROW THEM AWAY LIKE A WASTE PAPER." (Roohani Khazain vol 19 p.140)
Bait-ul-Zikr (Mosque adjacent to Bait-ul-Fikr, the room where Mirza Ghulam used to sit and write books) is like Haram-e-Ka'aba, 'Wa man dakhalahoo kaan amina' {and whosoever enters it, is in peace}." (Roohani Khazain vol. 1 p.666-667)
Verse [17:1] of Holy Quran: 'Praise be to Allah, who took His Servant on the Night Journey from Masjid Haram to Masjid Aqsa', its real and literal application is the Mosque built by father of Mirza Ghulam. (Collection of Advertisement vol.3 p.286)
[PS: According to Mirza Ghulam, Quran is the words of his mouth , his Mosque is like Haram-e-Kaba and Masjid -e-Aqsa is in Qadian and not in Jerushelm.]
Mirza announced:
"I am Adam , I am Noah, I am Abraham, I am Isaac, I am Jacob, I am Ishmael, I am Moses, I am Jesus son of Mary, I am Mohammad SAAW. . ." (Roohani Khazain vol 22, p.521)
"True God is the one who has sent his Messenger in Qadian." (Roohani Khazain vol.18 p.231)
Mirza declared that:
"Except for the Children of Prostitutes, whose hearts have been sealed by God, everyone else has accepted me and believes in my Prophethood." (Aina-e-Kamalate Islam, Roohani Khazain vol 5 p.547). . . . .
He, who does not believe on Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, is Disobedient to God and Prophet and will go to Hell." (Advertisement by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad dated 25th May 1900)
I am the "Self-implanted/Self-cultivated Seedling " of the British Government. "Government should take great care regarding this SELF-IMPLANTED SEEDLING . . . . .should instruct its officers to treat ME and MY JAMA'AT with special kindness and favours. Our family has never hesitated in shedding their blood in the way of British Rulers and did not stop from laying down their lives neither do they hesitate now." (Roohani Khazain vol.13 p.350)
"From my early age till now when I am 65 years of age, I have been engaged , with my pen and tongue, in an important task to turn the hearts of Muslims towards the true love & Goodwill & sympathy for the British Government and to obliterate the idea of Jehad from the hearts of stupid (Muslims). " (Kitab-ul-Bariyah, Roohani Khazain vol 13 p.350)
" . . . . for the sake of British Government, I have published & distributed 50,000 leaflets in this country (India) other Islamic countries(against jehad). . . . the result is that hundreds of thousands of people have given up their filthy ideas about Jihad." (Roohani Khazain vol 15 p.114)
Dear Brothers/Sisters in Islam!
These are the real beliefs of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and his Ahmadiyya/Qadiani Jama'at, but the propaganda literature will only try to prove that they are Sunni Muslims. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have lost their faith at the hands of Qadianis/Ahmadis because they had no knowledge about Mirza Ghulam or his Ahmadiyya Movement.
Western Powers are scared of the RESURGENCE OF ISLAM, the SPIRIT OF JEHAD of Muslims. They know that ANY MUSLIM WHO BECOMES A QADIANI/ AHMADI, is one Muslim less. Every Ahmadi must believe that JEHAD IS HARAM. Ahmadiyya Movement is therefore an agent of the Anti-Islamic Forces to take away our faith in the name of Islam.
MAY ALLAH PROTECT THE FAITH OF EVERY MUSLIM FROM ALL EVIL FORCES. AMEEN.