“Regarding the main subject of my article, I wrote that as we believed the Promised Messiah to be one of the PROPHETS of God, we could not possibly regard his deniers as Muslims.” (Ghulam Mirza Ahmed A’inah-i Sadaqat. pp. 137-138)
No Doubt! What are you complianing about.
MIRZA YASIR
[email protected]
Homepages
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Homeopathy Message Board
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Xtreme, is it a compliment or comment?
we agree both ways
few more line to add... will debate on this issue later
Since Imam Mehdi will be a PERSON APPOINTED BY ALLAH and not an elected candidate by general public, and he will be strengthened by REVELATIONS, so any person appointed by ALLAH ALMIGHTY to whom HE talks is defined as a “PROPHET” and nothing less. and in Quran we are OBLIGED TO ACCEPT PROPHETS ONLY.. there is no evidence in the whole Quran to follow anyone else.... Please CUTnPASTE any thing from Quran to nullify this doctrines... (just one example is sufficient)
by the way thankyou for all your efforts.. they are very helpful for me...
Now I am going to expose the lies of Mr. Extreme by showing you the actual writings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and other famous scholars of Islam.
Regarding the topic above I have scanned few quotes from the famous scholars like Sheikh Ibn-i-Arabi, Shah Wali Ullah, Imam Jaffar Sadiq, nasikh.
You will note that all of them had the same view as Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib. If you dare, please declare them kafir. They are the mujadideen of Islam and also Imam jaffar Sadiq is the imam of Shia sect.
The decision is on you.
The URL of page is
http://members.tripod.com/~yasirmirza/quotes2.html
NOTE: the image size in there is large so it might take upto 4 minutes to open the page fully. It depends on the speed of your server.
NOTE: I might take off these quotes after 1 week because I don’t have enough space on the web.
MIRZA YASIR
[email protected]
Homepages
mirzayasir.paklinks.com
pafcollchaklala.paklinks.com
Homeopathy Message Board
This is a message board which I created. Here you can post your diseases along with your symptoms and get a homeopathic prescription in 2-3 days. Its Free! Its amazing! Try it.
http://mirzahomeomain.paklinks.com
Zalim and Yasir,
I think you are missing the point. Which is, that since Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the promissed Messiah by your belief, the people who don't believe in that (including myself) are kafir by default (from your perspective)
Regards.
deepblue bahi,
my second reply is a question not a comment..
please reply (if possible)
Mr Zalim said
[quote]
we are OBLIGED TO ACCEPT PROPHETS ONLY..
[/quote]
. Their present Mirza Tahir Ahmed is not a nabi then why are they following him. The Quran tells us to follow Allah, his prophet and people appointed amir provided they fulfill the conditions of shariat. Mahdi, as such, will be followed in the former category since he will be a righteous amir appointed by Allah. And no matter how much you press your point Mahdi will never appear as a Nabi or prophet. According to your logic the present-day christian evangelists are also qualified as prophets since they have revelations from "GOD" all the time.
[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited April 24, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited April 24, 1999).]
Qadeer bhaiya.. yaar aap to aisay he jazbatee ho rahay ho.. zara thora saans bhi lay leya kero....
chalo hum galat he sahi.. kam say kam thori gufago mai to narmi kero... aisa kahay ko khafa hotay ho...
“tum main say behter wo hai jiss ka ikhlaaq behter hai”.. ever heard of this??
well bahi, you all try to explicate thing that are tattooed in your minds, since your childhood by your family and surrounding environment in which you were brought up... thats what the fallacy of every faith.. its true of false, this is beside the point.. the fact is we are all born Muslims by “chance” not by “choice”.. if we ever had pondered on this point.. it would be a very different story rather than a enchanting fairy-tale.. with jinn bhoots and pareeyaan etc.. Islam is a very simple and to the point religion with a solution to every problem.. though we are so unfortunate, we just play around with it instead of taking advantage from it.... we have a Book we have a Seerat(sa) and above all we have a living GOD, who still listens... we are so lucky, yet we prefer to take help from the “long chin whiskers” and not by the wealth we possess. See I was also brought up in the same paki-sunni environment, and my ideology was also the same as yours until a few years back when I took bait.. and that what changed my whole life....
ooops sorry, kinn bataoo main laga deya aap ko bhi... never mind.. leejeay aap ka jawab hazir hai...
REPLY TO YOUR POST:
1) See all Muslims believe that Imam Mahdi is going to be appointed by Allah, and is not going to be elected by the Muslims. There should not be a single Muslim who believes that Imam Mahdi will not be appointed by Allah, but will be elected by the masses. If any Muslim claims this, all the ulema of the world will declare that that person is a kafir, because he is holding a belief contrary to the belief of the entire Ummah. So, Imam Mahdi is a person to come, if he has not come already, who will be directly raised and appointed by Allah. However, this is one part of the belief.
2) The other part of the belief is that whoever refuses to accept him will become kafir.
The entire Ummah believes in these two things except the “Chakaralvis” and the “Ahle Quran”. The rest of the Ummah believe that Imam Mahdi will be appointed by Allah himself, and there will not be an election. They also believe that Imam Mahdi, once he is appointed, will be the imam for the whole Ummah and for the whole universe. Whoever denies him, and whoever opposes him would go out of the pale of Islam.
Now, bearing these two beliefs in mind, quote me one example of any person having these two attributes and these two qualities who was a non- prophet. Not a single man on earth appeared in history with these two qualities who was not a prophet. In fact a single man can not be quoted from the entire history of all the religions where a man can be said to have been appointed directly by Allah, and to believe in him is not imperative.
Read the Holy Quran on Iman, where it states in whom you must believe. According to Quran, only the prophets are us to believe in, otherwise we will become kafirs. Quote one verse form the Holy Quran where apart from the Prophets, we are bound to believe in anybody other than a Pophet. Yet, this accepted view, Muslims themselves ascribe to Imam Mahdi. Whoever is appointed directly by Allah, is a prophet. So Muslims maintain that they do not believe even a subordinate prophet would ever come, while they believe in Imam Mahdi, and that Allah himself will appoint and raise him. So they are most surely contradicting their own claim.
The truth is that Muslims believe in a subordinate the moment they believe in Imam Mahdi. So now it is only a question of personalities left. As far as the beliefs are concerned, any honest and true person will have to agree and admit that the concept of Imam Mahdi is exactly that concept which Ahmadis term as a subordinate prophet. Whether you call him a “subordinate prophet” or not, whether you call him man or not, is not important. What is important is definition. If you call a man a dog, he still remains a man. If someone enjoys the 2 qualities of Imam Mahdi, he will remain a prophet, whatever you call him. Even if you do not believe in him, he will still remain a prophet.
thats all for now.. I will be back soon...
wa’salam
aap ka Zalim khadim
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited April 24, 1999).]
Zalim,
This part of your quote really caught my intention:
"the fact is we are all born Muslims by “chance” not by “choice”.. if we ever had pondered on this point.. it would be a very different story rather than a enchanting fairy-tale.. with jinn bhoots and pareeyaan etc.. "
Because I have heard on more than one occasion the same views being expressed by avowed atheists. You must know that I am not making this up as many of you will have heard or read the same thing. In fact, looking at the nature of the Qadiani posts and the the nature of the people who seem to respond more favourably towards it is very instructive and gives a deep insight into the origins and objectives of this movement.
Zalim Sahab
Kya haal hayn aap key?. Mera Khiyaal hai boori lag gaee meri batayn. Bhai may to sirf aap key baat ka jawaab they raha tha bus. Aur aap nay mujh per BUD IKHLAQI ka fatwa laga diya. To ab aap be molveoun jessie harkat par uttar aye?.
It is true that we are not given a very bright picture about Qadianis in our home but sir, you being one has not provided us any compelling evidence that your Mirza was true in his claim. That leads us to believe he had ulterior motives for making this claim. Was it fame, glory, serving unislamic interests by splitting Islam into another sect, delusions of grandeur, I don't know and I am not interested. But there are just too many questions that are still unanswered. As far as the selection of Imam Mahdi is considered, he will not come out and declare himself a prophet like previous prophets did but rather he will be recognized by Ulema of vision who know the signs of true Mahdi. I do not agree with you that he will declare himself as a prophet. Even just for a second if we say that he comes out and says that he is Mahdi that does not necessarily means he has claimed prophethood unless he explicitly says that he is a prophet which the true Mahdi will never say.