Quran says there is no prophet after Muhammed ibn Abdullah SAW and he is the last prophet, so does many ahadiths confirm. Still the liars have made an evil prophet. Quran says Hazrat Eisa (AS) is alive and Allah SWT has taken him up and ahadiths confirm it, but the liar and evil prophet of qadianese preached that Hazrat Eisa (AS) is dead.
The believes of Qadianese are very very much diverted from Islam. In Islam the time you reject Quran and Sunnah of Prophet SAW you are a KAFIR.
Qadianese have rejected Quran by producing their own Translations of the Holy Quran and also reject the sunnah of Prophet SAW by declaring them unauthentic and against the Quran (i.e. against their Translation of Quran).
Any discussion on this topic is useless because many brothers here have provided proofs from the Holy Quran and ahadiths from authentic books of hadiths like Sahih Bukhari, but every thing was rejected. Again, the base was the translation of Quran.
Therefore, there is no doubt that mirza was a kafir and kazzab, a liar and his followers are KAFIRs, jin per as per Quran Allah SWT ki lanat hay. They never understand the truth and never try except those to whom Allah SWT guides.
We don't need your certificate to be a kafir or a Momin. Our muamla is with the God. If we are liars the He knows how to deal with Kaafirs. You don't have to worry about it. Secondly, Islam doesn't give right to any of the individual to decide that the other person is a kafir or a non-kafir, a Muslim or a non-Muslim. Just by saying that a person is kafir, doesn't make him kaafir. So we don't care that what ever you say about us. I read a book about the fatwas of sects about the kufar of other sects. THIS IS A FACT THAT EVERY SECT HAS GIVEN A FATWA OF KUFAR AGAINST THE OTHER SECTS. so if somebody becomes a kafir just by saying that he is a kaafir then you are kaafir according to all the other sects of Islam.
We find this a very big proof of our truth that all the other sects unitedly say that we are kafir and non-Muslim. You know that prophet Muhammad (SAW) said that my ummat will devide into 73 sects and all of them will be jahanumi except one. So now that we have so many sects. We should decide who is Jahanumi and who is Naji. If all of the other sects combine to say that ahmadi people are kaafir and non-Muslim then it automaticaly proves that you 72 are against 1 naji sect. all the 72 can't be right. if 72 are saying that 73rd is not muslim then of course 73rd is the real sect.
THIS THREAD ONLY PROVES THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ANSWERS TO ANY OF OUR DALEEL AND YOU HAVE STARTED MAKING ALEGATIONS LIKE THIS.
Be a Mard and try to win the debate with real proofs.
The reason we have Takleef to call you Kafir,because you call yourself MUSLIM,if you don't call yourself muslim,you can be whatever you want and your Maumala will in the hand of ALLAH(SWT).
Brother Abdullah
Bheas krne ka koi faida nain,Duniya Bhar ke Ulemas are agreed on that,why we should waste our time on some useless topic,specially here in this forum once in a while one qadiani comes and bring this topic,I remember and you can check by previous posts in general and in religious area regarding that.
Just leave them alone,ignore them,I'm sure no real muslim is that much ignorant to believe on their evil faith,no one is convinced now and no one will ever.Life is too short,life hereafter is forever and forever if they choose to stay on this they will see everything soon,Hamesha Hamesha kee nakami.
And Mr. Jewel you said in one of your post that if you qadianis are wrong why are you people in good condition and wealthy or whatever(something like that)
Jo jitna mota nazar aata hai andar se itna khokla or beemarion se bharpur hota hai.
[This message has been edited by mazloom (edited January 27, 1999).]
Brother Abdulla, As-salam alaikum, I would also say that all of this is just a waste of your time and efforts. I mean, just look at the proof that mirzayasir gives for qadianism to be right - he says that because everyone else says they are kafir, that means they are correct! All muslims also agree that hindus and sikhs are kafir, but that doesn't mean they are the true muslims!!!
How can you discuss in such an absence of rational thought?
I think there is a difference between Ahmadis and Hindus. You say Hindus are Kafirs and Hindus would hate being called as sect of Islam. So there is no difference of opinion. Both agree. Ahmadis on the contrary feel they are Muslims. So that remains difference.
I believe knowledgable discussions are healthy and always increases your knowledge of Islam and even other religions because you try to read more and more and in between you come to know lots of new things. But both the parties should keep one thing in mind that the discussion is for gaining knowledge and is not a matter of self respect.
Best we can do is try, rest all depends on Allah SWT, HE guides whom ever HE wishes. I pray that Allah SWT give us all the right knowledge of His religion (Ameen).
PG, I was using Hindus as an example of people who think that their religion is the correct one. If they think so, they should bring some proof/basis to discuss, but just saying that "we are right BECAUSE everyone else thinks we are wrong" is not much good.
I think like everyone else, Ahmadis would have cared two hoots about what mullas think of themi. But being or not being a Muslim is important from the point of view of state. In other words, if state was secular, there was no serious problem. But if the non Muslims have different political constituency and if state is actively following what mullas determine Islamic, there will a competetion to prove that sect A is more Islamic than sect B. Even if the state is secular, this competition remains. But it has only entertainment value. It does not affect in day-to-day life. So the best way to end sectarian conflict is to have a secular state. Anyway, Pakistan has 98% Muslims. But if you want Islamic rule, then whose version of Islam is right remains a question and people will continue to fiercely discuss it or worse, fight and kill as is happening in sectarian conflicts.
[This message has been edited by PG (edited January 27, 1999).]
The proofs have clearly been established and presented in several threads. But if you cannot accept the Versus of Allaah and the aHadeeth of His Messenger(SAW), because of a personal agenda or pride, then surely you will be from amongst the losers.
The Prophet(SAW) said in an authentic narration:
"There will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the
world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no
Prophet will come after me."
(Abu Dawood, Tirmizi)
The debate here in this thread is useless because the right to decide that "A" is a muslim and "B" is not a muslim is not given to humans. Only God can decide who is a muslim and who is not. But if you want ti take place of God then its your choice and you will be held responsible for that.
The following incidence explains that you don't have the right to judge the faith of other person, "A Sahabi killed a person in the war who embraced Islam jsut before being killed. That sahabi said that he was accepting Islam just to save his life, so I killed him. When This was told to the prophet Muhammad (S.A.W),his face turned red and he said that did you tear his heart to see what is in his heart." So be prepared for the final day of judgement when you will be asked that did you tear hearts??
MR. Special 2,,,,, You have wrote a very stupid statement, "All muslims also agree that hindus and sikhs are kafir, but that doesn't mean they are the true muslims!!!""
Mr. Special 2, I am talking about muslim sects not about non-muslims. Hazoor (SAW) said that one sect will be naji and 72 will be dozakhi. All 72 of you can't be right that means that the 73 is naji.
Mr. mazloom,
You also have given a stupid reason. "Duniya Bhar ke Ulemas are agreed on that,why we should waste our time on some useless topic." You should keep in mind that all the prophets of God are opposed and all the people say that they are wrong. Sari duniya ney kaha tha key hazoor (SAW) jhootay hein magar sari duniya ghalat thi. So don't quote that you are in majority because majority is not always right
KHUDA HAFIZ
MIRZA YASIR
[This message has been edited by mirzayasir (edited January 27, 1999).]
fatwa zuban ki baat pur lagta hai.. dil kay khayaal pur nahee!
aap log hadees kay champion bantay hain.. to yakeenun ap ko pata ho ga, kay jub bhe musalmano ki mardam-shumari huwee, prophet muhammad nay farmaya, kay UN TAMAM LOGON KA NAAM LIKH KAY LAO JO APNAY AAP KO MUSALMAAN KEHTAY HAIN!
isi tarah aik aur jagah farmaya:
KALMA-GO KO KAAFIR KEHNAY WAALA KAAFIR HAI!
aakhir ki hadith pur ghaur kur kay dekhain...sara masla samajh main aa jaye ga!
suunis say shia are kaafir, shias say sunnis are kaafir, and both say ahmedis are kaafir!
but ahmedis do not call anyone kaafir!!
is baat ko ooper ki hadees ki kasooti pur purkhain to aap ko pata chal jaye ga kay aap kitnay paani main hain!
ap log musalsal apni bay izzati kerwa rahay hain..aap ki merzi!
I don't think AR was saying that ahmedis swear at the prophet.
jewels,
you said "KALMA-GO KO KAAFIR KEHNAY WAALA KAAFIR HAI!"
and
"but ahmedis do not call anyone kaafir!!"
But surely according to your beliefs anyone who doesn't give the pledge of allegiance to ahmed mirza is a kafir so you're doing exactly what you claim other sects are doing i.e. calling everybody kafir.
We don’t call anyone kafir, this is a fact you can’t change it. We as a member of ahmadia community are telling you that you are not kafir but you people again insist that we call you kafir, its your own choice …