… can Pakistan Army take up the challenge?
To me the most concerning part is that the Indians are massing troops in Kashmir as if its a flee market in Bombay. And they are obviously 3-4 times the size of the Pakistan army at the Kashmir border.
What do you think Pakistan Army has in mind if the Indians actually do start a war?
[quote]
Originally posted by ajee:
**... can Pakistan Army take up the challenge?
To me the most concerning part is that the Indians are massing troops in Kashmir as if its a flee market in Bombay. And they are obviously 3-4 times the size of the Pakistan army at the Kashmir border.
What do you think Pakistan Army has in mind if the Indians actually do start a war?**
[/quote]
The dog that barks dosent bite, thats the reality of indian army.
By staying behind the borders and just shouting is proving the cowardness of the monkeygods army.
As a muslim I recall the history of David and Goliath. We all know what happent at that occasion.
This
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
Musharraf vows to “unleash a storm” if India attacks
AFP
Islamabad, May 29
**President Pervez Musharraf on Wednesday warned Pakistan would “unleash a storm” if Indian forces set foot across the Line of Control (LoC) in Kashmir.
“Any incursion by the Indian forces across the LoC even by an inch will unleash a storm that will sweep the enemy,” he told cheering troops during a visit to the de facto border dividing Kashmir and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.
Musharraf said Pakistan would counter-attack if India started a conflict.
“Victory comes through offensive strategy and our forces are ready for it if war is thrust on Pakistan by India,” he said.
**
[This message has been edited by zaavia (edited May 29, 2002).]
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ajee:
**… can Pakistan Army take up the challenge?
Pakistan Army has taken up the challenge
Ask that question to the indians. Why do you think they are making empty treathts?
Its not the size of the boat.
Its the motion in the ocean.
[quote]
Originally posted by ajee:
**... can Pakistan Army take up the challenge?
To me the most concerning part is that the Indians are massing troops in Kashmir as if its a flee market in Bombay. And they are obviously 3-4 times the size of the Pakistan army at the Kashmir border.
What do you think Pakistan Army has in mind if the Indians actually do start a war?**
[/quote]
Standard military doctrine states that when attacking a fortified enemy position, to have an equal chance of victory as the defender does, an attacker requires a 3:1 numerical advantage at the minimum. (This my brother was taught whilst serving in the British Army reserves)
However, bear in mind that in addition to that, Pakistani troops are generallyy considered to be better trained and more combat effective than Indian forces are. Thus in a purely defensive war, for at least the first couple of battles Pakistan's army has a strong chance of losing very little, if any, ground.
The problem is that as the war drags on, Pakistan will start running low on supplies (only having sufficient munitions for 3-4 weeks of full-scale war, compared with India's stockpile of supplies for 3 months). Sheer attrition will also start to rapidly grind us down after the initial round of engagements.
It is well known that in the event of a full scale war, Pakistan's plan is to hold its territory and use the threat of nuclear conflict to bring international pressure on India to desist hostilities.
If this does not occur within a few weeks of the start of full-scale war, Pakistan will have to start using its short ranged missiles to deploy tactical, small yield nuclear warheads onto Indian soldiers to avoid being swamped and overwhelmed.
Of course, once the nuclear threshold is crossed, who knows what will happen....
The second alternative, and what plays more favourably for Pakistan, is that if both sides respect internationally recognised borders and limit the fight exclusively to disputed territory, i.e. Kashmir.
Pakistan does have the resources to engage in a months-long conventional war, so long as no conflict takes place outside of Kashmir (i.e. there is a repeat of a Kargil-like scenario). In this case, it is most likely that a conflict would end after several weeks or months with the status quo being maintained.
Pakistan does not have the military resources to take control of Indian Occupied Kashmir - the populous regions of IOK (i.e the Valley) are open, flat areas that grossly favours the superior numbers and firepower of the Indian army. Bear in mind that in 1948, the attack of the Indian army was only halted when Pakistani forces pulled back to mountainous terrain that is easily defended in the face of greater numbers and firepower.
just miltary alone dont fight wars economy
and size is important. what is strtegic goal of pakistani army? to liberate kashmir
or just work for stalemate? nulear war is other matter it is a desparate attempt
to save face by commiting suicide.
[This message has been edited by rvikz (edited May 29, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
**
Pakistan does not have the military resources to take control of Indian Occupied Kashmir - the populous regions of IOK (i.e the Valley) are open, flat areas that grossly favours the superior numbers and firepower of the Indian army. Bear in mind that in 1948, the attack of the Indian army was only halted when Pakistani forces pulled back to mountainous terrain that is easily defended in the face of greater numbers and firepower.**
[/quote]
Very true. We held on Neelum, Leepa Valleys. Places like Jammu, Srinagar are on open areas. Mad, is there anyway that Kashmir South could be cut off from India? I'm speaking about Sialkot-Jammu Axis.
The eyelids of a Rajputs eyes are lowered only in death.
They said that they could use the Mujahideen that are alreay in Kashmir to their advantage.
Sorta the way Indians used Bengalis in 1971.
Is there anyway that Pakistan do something similar?
http://www.dawn.com/2002/05/30/top1.htm
PAF will play key role in defence: Enemy creating dangerous situation: Musharraf
MAIN PAF OPERATING BASE, May 29: President Gen Pervez Musharraf on Wednesday said Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will play a lead role in the defence of the motherland in case war was thrust on Pakistan.
Addressing the officers and men at PAF Base Minhas, Gen Musharraf said that military history was full of examples where numerically inferior forces defeated the larger numbers, and in our own history the PAF had displayed outstanding performances against the IAF, a much bigger air force.
“The PAF is small but a potent and hard-hitting air force with the ability to strike and surprise the enemy in such a manner that it will repent the decision to opt for war,” he said.
"Seeing the glimmer in the eyes of all pilots and airmen I met, I am fully confident that, Inshallah, the PAF will give a befitting response to any adventurism by India and create yet another chapter full of glory and valour in the history.
“I am extremely proud and motivated after seeing the highest state of preparedness and morale displayed by the PAF,” the president said.
He commended the efforts of PAF personnel for attaining the required deterrence level through indigenization despite heavy odds. The PAF has achieved highest degree of operational readiness under the leadership of Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir in the shortest possible time, he said.
Referring to the Jammu incident, he said the enemy had been trying to create a dangerous situation in the region by posing such scenes.
“Defence forces of the country are fully prepared and ready to respond in a befitting manner in case of any aggression from across the borders. And if the war is thrust on us it will be fought in the enemy’s territory,” he said.
The people of Pakistan have always had faith in the ability of the armed forces to inflict unbearable damage to the enemy.
The armed forces and the people of Pakistan will shed last drop of their blood in defence of their motherland and the enemy will be taught a lesson that will never be forgotten by it, he said.
He said the spirit to sacrifice for the defence of the motherland “has always made the difference” in the past conflicts and the same will be demonstrated in the future as well.
Earlier, on arrival, President and Chief Executive Gen Pervez Musharraf was received by the Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir, Air officer Commanding Northern Air Command Air Vice Marshal Saleem Nawaz and Base Commander Air Commodore Hameed Qadri.
He was briefed on the operational preparedness of PAF and wartime role of the base. He also inspected the fleet of frontline fighter aircraft of the PAF and witnessed the ongoing operational activities to meet any threat.
During his visit, President Gen Pervez Musharraf also met the fighter pilots and technicians of the different squadrons deployed on the base.
Earlier, in his observations in the Visitors’ Book, the President said: “It is my proud privilege to have visited PAF Base Minhas. Seeing the glimmer in the eyes of all pilots and airmen I met, I am fully confident that, Inshallah, the PAF will give a befitting response to any adventurism by India. May God be with you always and protect you from harm’s way. I am proud of all of you.” -APP
[quote]
Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed:
They said that they could use the Mujahideen that are alreay in Kashmir to their advantage.
Sorta the way Indians used Bengalis in 1971.
Is there anyway that Pakistan do something similar?
[/quote]
Adnan, I see what your saying. If Pakistan can cut off the Indian States of Punjab and Himachal Pradesh, then the dynamics would change in our favor for Kashmir. In that situation, Kashmir is totally cut off. The problem with that scenario is Punjab. Indians enjoy a numerical advantage on the Plains of Punjab, so thats very risky.
We have to do our bidding, make our forces stronger, build stronger alliances and then we can take on India.
The eyelids of a Rajputs eyes are lowered only in death.
Stronger alliances? with whom?
Pakistan President and all other officials are saying openly that Pakistan forces are very very "WEAK" then Indian forces.....
I think Pakistani Forces and Peoples are already dead in thier minds.
Dogs Do NOT Like to Fight WITH PIGS (PAF).....
[quote]
Originally posted by munnu:
Dogs Do NOT Like to Fight WITH PIGS (PAF).....
[/quote]
Man the nuclear war/fallout hasn't even started (hopefully won't) and all the mutants and freaks are coming out and hogging these forums. What's up with that?
In todays world it is less of a matter of what actually hapens in real time war but what happens on the PR and diplomatic front. Many beleives wars are won b4 they are fought. India won the Kargil war for all a layman of the workd cares.
And with this a hola in power who knows what'll happen. He already polled in asking peopl how much they beleived kashmir is more important than other issues. what a monkeypuppet.
Thus, spake the Sword...
So much for numerical superiority. What matters is ground realities.
**The Indian army fears that a “fifth column” of thousands of Muslim insurgents inside northern India’s disputed Jammu and Kashmir state will severely hinder its fighting ability in the event of a war with nuclear rival Pakistan
Military officers said about 3,000 to 4,000 Pakistan-backed insurgents across Kashmir were poised to disrupt the army’s supply lines, sabotage its rear-area security by blowing up bridges and rail lines, attacking soldier convoys and by laying siege to National Highway 1A that is the state’s lifeline.
…
Local Kashmiris, strongly opposed to the army’s presence in the region for the last 13 years that the state’s Islamic insurgency has raged, are also likely to dilute the military’s capabilities during hostilities, intelligence officers said.
…
even as army units ranged along the border awaited orders to switch to the “hot war mode”, they felt vulnerable to attack from behind their own lines.
…
About 45 attacks by fedayeen, or suicide militant squads, on army bases in Kashmir during the past two years killed scores of soldiers.
They further demoralised the army, revealing to the enemy that India’s military simply did not have the numbers to fight and protect itself from internal attacks.**
I doubt if there is going to be any full scale war....especially if the precious US troops are ij pakistan. Secondly, this is just another dhoti clad itch of smelly hindians....to worked up about Pakistan being in the news and being mentiond so often as an important cross roads and wil all that central asia pipeline thing. This is an attempt to get some media coverage. Massive inferriority complex. I detect a pattern......'98 nuclear tests, kabul flight hijacking drama, monkey man in delhi etc....
Thus, spake the Sword...
[This message has been edited by Sultan Toora (edited May 31, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by munnu:
Dogs Do NOT Like to Fight WITH PIGS (PAF).....
[/quote]
Your and idiot.. That cow urine must be going to your head...I will agree with one thing, Indians are dogs.. No, actually they are lower then dogs.
[This message has been edited by Adnan Ahmed (edited May 31, 2002).]