Purpose of a Degree?

Society Business and Career
1

salams

I was talking to someone today who is also an international student at my college in America. He too is from a third world country…

We were discussing what purpose we see our educations fulfilling on our lives..my view of education is a tool for self betterment and mental discipline and valuable lessons in life…He however was of the view that I am going to waste my degree if I don’t put it to use by applying my technical skills to a professional job that is related directly to my major computer science… also he was saying that I took up somebody else’s opportunity by taking over that spot…

however, i really didn’t agree with him…I feel like because of the education and experiences I got in college, I was able to learn a lot in life alhamdulillah and that in itself is what I value more than the degree itself…Also, why must I do something that is related to my degree in life? I could do something entirely different, which would still utlise me the person, whom my college experience played a role in shaping…

and why would it be taking someone’s spot? Allah has a plan for each of us and what happens happens with a purpose…i feel like this thinking that just because you might not apply your degree directly to your life is wasting your degree is very one track thinking…

just for example, if we look at coding in computer science, sure it teaches u how to program, but it also teaches u perseverence in the face of adversity, focusing on a goal and many other things…therefore i feel like the purpose of education and classes is to teach u the technical skills, sure, but more importantly to teach u lessons abt life…

hmmm…so do u guys agree with him or me?:bailan: he sure made me feel hecka guilty :hoonh: plz do share ur thoughts on this :slight_smile:

2

IRem, you got a degree in computer science, you didn't invent the next source of energy for humanity. Coding is just that.... coding. If you were handing out leaflets on the corner of 42nd and 5th ave , your goals of facing adversity and focusing on a challenge would have been met.

I agree with your classmate, someone from another third world country would have used that CS degree to meet their personal and familial goals. If you wanted to have a full college expereince then you should have been a liberal arts major and taking classes such as "Sex in 18th century French protectorates"and "why buddhism is the best religion" Hope that clears it up for you.

3

I have to agree with CH here. If you wanted to "educate" yourself, there could have been many other majors which would broaden your thinking a lot more than CS, which basically turns you into a conformist drone.

As for taking someone else's spot, I know people in Pakistan, just about your age, who couldn’t get enough scholarship to afford studying in the US. Knowing them personally I am sure they would have used their degree doing what it was meant for. As a matter of fact one of my best friends was just offered a scholarship to Stanford and a partial scholarship to CMU. He cant afford to pay even a few thousand dollars a year so hes desperately looking for some way to finance his studies at CMU. He already has the Rhodes scholarship to Oxford, starting in sept this year, as a backup plan ;-). So if he looses out on CMU because someone wanted to go there just for the heck of it, tell that’s not unfair. Of course the ever powerful "hey I earned it" argument will always be there and its fair to a major extent.

Secondly I can't imagine a person doing a degree in a subject they aren’t passionate about. I go to a small Australian university, but at least I eat, breathe and sleep my majors. I can't imagine doing anything else. I don't know how people become doctors, engineers and computer scientists when they really don't have a passion for the field. On the other hand I know people who got admissions to Med Schools but are studying things like Applied Chemistry or Journalism now, atleast they are doing what they really want to do.

Edit:
On a lighter note, an Austrian friend of mine is doing a PhD in CS and actually wants to be a ski instructor. According to him he is just improving his pick up line :-).

4

Irem, you're along the right tracks.

The purpose of a degree is primarily. prove your level of intellect and ability to corporate recruiters, so as to prove you have the mental capacity to handle responsibility, pressure, and intellectually challenging tasks in the corporate world. In addition, they are expecting you to learn from your experiences during your degree and apply them to your job.

The secondary role, that of teaching you technical abilities, is often only applicable to a minority of jobs.

That's why many of the major companies are willing to take graduates from almost any discipline into many roles - but they refuse to take into those roles anyone without a good degree from a good university.

5

mad scientist -

agree with u completely bro :k: however, i dont think being in a ‘good uni’ says anything abt a student, and employers should not give it soooooooo much weight as they do. i know ppl who go to the very top unis and some who dont go to good unis, and when i compare them, a lot of times some of those who dont go to good unis will prolly turn out to be better employees for those employers, from every aspect…

who—me n Chaltahai ji -

who–me: I do not think computer science turns you into a ‘conformitst drone’ :hoonh: :stuck_out_tongue: gosh u r a traitor :bailan:

cs is tougher and more challenging than humanities and in the end i believe the more u challenge urself the more u grow as a person. and cs also truly disciplines your mind and gives you a good idea about how to look at issues…it challenges u n teaches u some very good practical lessons that u can apply to ur life…
this is just the prevalent idea that humanities classes ‘broaden ur horizon’…i tho disagree completely…
my major was computer science but half my classes in college were humanities classes of all types so ive had enoughhh humanities experience…and in my college everyone has to go thru a rigorous all rounded first yr humanities track anyway…so I’ve taken lots n lots of those fuzzy classes…even in computer science my electives were a bit on the fuzzy side…and I do not agree with this notion at all that humanities classes ‘broaden your horizon’ more than techie classes…taking a techie class and getting done with it is a much more rewarding experience, writing a program is much more rewarding than writing a paper…imho..
as for the ‘being passionate abt my degree’ thing..this is completely and absolutely overrated in western colleges..even if u r passionate abt ur degree, there will be some classes in ur major that u will always hate…
and besides, doing what u like is taking the easy way out, doing what u dislike is challenging urself and thats the tougher and more rewarding path :stuck_out_tongue:

who—me: abt ur friend..if only he went to those colleges, he would realise that at the end of the day, going to any college is pretty much the same thing, the main thing is personal motivation, and if he has that he sure will get places, and if he doesnt then he wont, regardless of which college he went to :k: so i dont think he is losing all that much..
besides i also availed from my college experience as much as he would, both in our own ways…
btw is he applying for undergrad or grad? if he applied for undergrad and asked for aid he should get as much as he asked for, thats the policy of all top us colleges that once they grant admissions, they give the aid that the candidate asked for… if he is applying for grad school, he can get TA and RA ships. so money should technically not be an issue for him. unless, he applied for undergrad saying he did not need aid [as that increases ur chances of admission but then u dont get aid…]

6

Oh really, how many hiring decisions have you made in the last year?

This is ridiculous. As much as coding like a monkey might find saitisfaction for you intellectually, developing a thesis on similarities in artistic thought between Egyptians and Greeks might tdo the same for another. Plus it would be more subjectively rewarding than a scientific principal which is primarily in absolutes.

Not all colleges, like people are created equal. In lesser colleges you learn from books written by professors from other colleges who are leaders in a particular subject. It would be more beneficial to go a college that has a faculty that are leaders in the various desciple rather than those who can onlymuster up such reading material.

7

CH - Quit been a pain cause you have nothing better to say. How many times have we heard about really good schools and what wonderful people they bring out. Just as a sample of the people who are leaders today, think about where these people went to school and how they have affected the world:
Bill Gates
Bush
Dell

Sure schools are a leg up just as the fact that we sit in the US or have more money then the averge Joe is a leg up, but it is not everything and you know that.

The fact that Irem accepted a college position does not mean some other third world person would have gotten it if she did not. It just means there was a position and she got it. The alternatives are not specified here. So that takes care of "taking it away from someone else".

Yes someone else may get more value out of the same degree but on what basis do you count that value? how is the value shes gotten not of equal amount?

People jump careers and fields all the time. What you learn in college is a method of learning. They tend to be different for different people and different majors. It is how you apply it that really matters. And it does not have to be in the same field. Heck most of the really rich people did not even make it through college.

8

HMCQ, if the truth hurts you then go back in your hole. You are giving example of Gates and Dell as college dropouts, as your thesis for top=20 schools and their impact. GO look at the list of fortune 500 companies, senior management in any industry, government, even non-profit is going to be full of people from top-20 schools than from south alabama state. that is the simply the way world works.

What the hell kind of statement is that? It is a door opener and a great door opener. It weeds out pretenders. People who get into top 20 schools have generally performed better than most other people in their counterparts just to get into those schools.

Her rationale for “not taking the spot for someone else” is because “allah has plans for everyone” I would love to hear that in a job interview…lol :hehe: It is absolutely a waste of a degree if you don;t follow through. You track to where you want to go gets longer because you don’t have the necessary background to excel in the changed field. That is why yo have 35 yr old desktop analysts being bossed aorund by 28 yr old strategy gurus.

“What you learn is college is a method of learning”???

Well rounded college students can take GRE;s and GMAT’s as standard exams to show how well they learned in college.

Most rich people didn’t make it through college..maybe…but most smart people did.

9

Hmcq bhai, mehrbani :-)

Chaltahai ji, matti pao :-)

10

CH are you implying that everyone in a top 20 school is better then everyone in Southern Alabama, such that any top 20 school student would be in a higher position the anyone from esle where?

As I said its a leg up, same as money. You can take Bush as an example and tell me he is smart.

If you wish look at the top management (at least all the C levels) of the fortune 100 and list out there schools. Sure they would have top 20 schools in there but plenty of them will also be from non top 20s.

After that try listing out all the richest people in Europe and US and see where they got their degrees from. Firstly is there a correlation between the money a person has and where he can get educated? And secondly is there a correlation between where a person went to school and how much money they themseleves made.

No one is arguing with you about who gets a leg up and who doesnt. But I would disagree when you say only the top twenty are capable.

Cheers.

11

The thing about top 20 universities/colleges is that they are most likely to attract top quality students, who in turn will become top quality job candidates. In addition,, these universities have better quality screening tests than less reputable universities, hence the students who get in are, with a limited number of exceptions, the best ones in the country. These universities also are more likely to have the best courses, not just in the academic skills they teach you, but also in the thought processes and analytical skills that they develop.

Companies rarely have the available resources (both financially and in terms of manpower) to recruit everywhere, so they focus on the best universities/colleges, which are the most fertile in terms of quality candidates. Certainly, the multinational I work only targets 20 universities in the UK for graduate recruitment into managerial roles. Graduates from other universities are only considered if they prove themselves to be truly exceptional.

An average candidate from a top university is always given priority over an good candidate from an average or low-end university, because the assumption is made that the top university was able to develop his non-academic skills better than other universities could.

12

Chalo..The thread was about Purpose of a Degree, you guys have turned it into oh-I-feel-good-about-myself-because-I-went-to-a-good-school deal. CH is here with his usual Ivy League rhetoric...Bhai jaan now that you have achieved "big" things mashaAllah come out of the "I am not a fookin cab driver" complex already j/k. Maddy on the other hand is trying his best to justify the move from chemistry to management, like always :p . And hmcq is on a -1 * CH mission.

All in all I have to agree with CH. If you don’t follow through with your technical degree, it’s at least a partial waste. Finer subjects like philosophy, literature, history etc make you more understanding and sensitive. Hence these people end up as managers, diplomats, journalists etc. I don’t think same is the case with Computer Science (or any specialized sciences). If the purpose of college education was only to prove you learning abilities, I am pretty sure there are much better ways than spending 4 years studying things like Organic Chemistry or Structural mechanics or Numerical Linear Algebra.

[QUOTE]
That's why many of the major companies are willing to take graduates from almost any discipline into many roles - but they refuse to take into those roles anyone without a good degree from a good university.
[/QUOTE]

Graduates going from specialized degrees to more general roles is a one-way street, it’s not true the other way around. Try fitting a philosophy major into a petroleum engineering position and find out.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by who---me: *
Graduates going from specialized degrees to more general roles is a one-way street, it’s not true the other way around. Try fitting a philosophy major into a petroleum engineering position and find out.
[/QUOTE]

That's why I didn't say "all roles".

Generally, for jobs such as R&D and Engineering, as well a number of other specialist fields (often, but not always, including technical IT roles), a relevant degree is needed. But for the majority of roles in Accountancy, Management, Banking, and a host of other jobs, relatively few companies are looking for a particular discipline. Normally, being able to prove that you are of a numerate mind tends to suffice.

14

Mad Scientist is very accurate. I am interviewing/hiring a bunch of summer interns (and hopefully will select a few out of this batch for permanent employment after the summer). I am less interested in people with tech and finance degrees. I am more interested in Lib arts (mainly Area Studies, Linguistics or History) people. I don’t mind econ as a minor. The work that we do is highly analytical, and requires excellent writing skills.

Chaltahai, what you are saying is very close to what I think, but selecting an area of study is not really an impulsive decision. It is dispositionary. You cannot make people go to Lib arts college if they have no appreciation for it. Some of the appreciation of arts can also come from one's upbringing. I wish I had done a degree in Ancient History with a dissertation on Homoerotic Poetry of Hesiod. Then go on to do a PhD in Homosocial to Homoerotic Thessalian Women of the Classical Greek Period (500-300 BC). Here's a quote for you my love, from E.R. Dodds:

"There is no experience, no matter how wonderful or terrifying, that the Greeks did not face. "

15

thanks for the replies everyone :)

while we're on the subject...i thought i'd mention here...

a lot of ppl take up med school or law school or other professions after a techie degree...

one of my senior project partners...he's also a computer science major....he is an ace programmer....the guy is brilliant....and one of the best programmers in our department...in fact some ppl have told me he must be one of the best programmers in the country...

he's also one of the most active social workers in the mexican community on campus....he's catholic and mexican....and he is a super cool super nice guy...

he wants to be a priest when he graduates and do volunteer work and help ppl...

even now he could have gotten a zillion good jobs with the best companies in the silicon valley but he is just going to do some volunteer work for some time for now....

he did CS coz he was interested in it, found it fun and challenging...he is not going to necessarily use his skills in life but he felt it was a rewarding experience to do the CS degree...

and i really respect the choices that he made in that he followed his heart in his decisions...

16

practical Vs non-pratical subjects.

I am in the final process of getting a degree in politics and Philosophy from Oxford Brookes University (READ Oxford Brookes not Oxford University! Although we share the same campus for Philosophy!). I have been asked the question of what use to humanity can me getting a degree in Philosophy have? A brief answer to the above question is as follows;

In any given state, be it a capitalist, socialist, theocratic etc, there is an undercurrent known as the Service Sector. This is both formal and informal. Whereas the industrial base of a country brings in the creation of wealth from both within the country and from external sources by inward investment and exports, the service sector feeds on the wealth already present and does not contribute to the long-term socio-economical sovereignty of a nation state.

I believe a comparison can be made from this example to practical VS non-practical degree subjects.

Technical subjects can be compared to my example of industrial sector; it brings in change, wealth, new opportunity and prosperity, but if not used well can lead to economical degradation. Thus, those doing such subjects are actively advancing humanity.

Humanities and Social Sciences are the other element of humanity that cannot be ignored in a healthy and progressive society.
Technical vocational subjects go hand in hand with more academically testing subjects. Humanities provide the "services sector" in society, feeding it with its daily dose of necessity i.e. food for thought, social system, education, governance, policing etc.

People have asked me what Philosophers do for a living, because the common opinion they have is of is that of an image of Descartes sitting on a rock lamenting the finer points of the universe and the rational of Mankind.
What use is this to the progression of Human race?

The answer, in the briefest terms, as I realise this post is getting awfully long is that, by using our knowledge we can feed our soul and society with its own food, which is intellectual and spiritual, but this is not enough to make the world go around! So ideally, there should be a synthesis of practicality and what at first seem subjects, which are a waste of time because they do not bring the money, progression or any job at all!

WE NEED BOTH TYPE OF PEOPLE OR IDIOTS LIKE ME WILL HAVE TO START LOOKING FOR A JOB!

Allah Hafiz
Yasin Qadir Baksh
[email protected]

17

Re: practical Vs non-pratical subjects.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zardari: *
I am in the final process of getting a degree in politics and Philosophy from Oxford Brookes University (READ Oxford Brookes not Oxford University! Although we share the same campus for Philosophy!). I have been asked the question of what use to humanity can me getting a degree in Philosophy have? A brief answer to the above question is as follows;

In any given state, be it a capitalist, socialist, theocratic etc, there is an undercurrent known as the Service Sector. This is both formal and informal. Whereas the industrial base of a country brings in the creation of wealth from both within the country and from external sources by inward investment and exports, the service sector feeds on the wealth already present and does not contribute to the long-term socio-economical sovereignty of a nation state.

I believe a comparison can be made from this example to practical VS non-practical degree subjects.

Technical subjects can be compared to my example of industrial sector; it brings in change, wealth, new opportunity and prosperity, but if not used well can lead to economical degradation. Thus, those doing such subjects are actively advancing humanity.

Humanities and Social Sciences are the other element of humanity that cannot be ignored in a healthy and progressive society.
Technical vocational subjects go hand in hand with more academically testing subjects. Humanities provide the "services sector" in society, feeding it with its daily dose of necessity i.e. food for thought, social system, education, governance, policing etc.

People have asked me what Philosophers do for a living, because the common opinion they have is of is that of an image of Descartes sitting on a rock lamenting the finer points of the universe and the rational of Mankind.
What use is this to the progression of Human race?

The answer, in the briefest terms, as I realise this post is getting awfully long is that, by using our knowledge we can feed our soul and society with its own food, which is intellectual and spiritual, but this is not enough to make the world go around! So ideally, there should be a synthesis of practicality and what at first seem subjects, which are a waste of time because they do not bring the money, progression or any job at all!

WE NEED BOTH TYPE OF PEOPLE OR IDIOTS LIKE ME WILL HAVE TO START LOOKING FOR A JOB!

Allah Hafiz
Yasin Qadir Baksh
[email protected]
[/QUOTE]

best of luck