This video is a very convincing proof that Qadianis consider Mohammad in kalima to refer to MGA.
Thanx for posting tasavur.
No problem, bro!
ASTAGFURILLAH! on what you think Ahmadi muslim beliefs are. Complete analysis of what you have quoted will deviate us from the topic under discussion but here is summary answer to allegations:
A). Our Kalima is the same as prophet muhammad (pbuh) taught us 1400+ years ago i.e., "there is no God but Allah the Almighty and Muhammad(pbuh) is his messenger"
1) No, he didn't claim to be Allah [Na auzbillah] neither do we consider him Allah. We consider him 'mamoor min Allah' and promised Messiah.
2) Prophet hazrat muhammad(pbuh) and hazrat mirza ghulam ahmed (AS) are two different persons. We believe he is at the level of 'fana fi rasool(pbuh)'. It is like full moon reflects the light of sun but doesn't actually become sun itself.
He did claim to be Allah (check the video) and he did claim to be the second reincarnation of the Prophet PBUH (check the video).
In fact, even if he didn't do these things, you Ahmedis believe in a man who will be grasped by his beard and thrown into the fire of Jahanam, Insh'Allah.
Do you know why? Because him and all of his followers bear witness that the Prophet Muhamamad (MAY THE BLESSINGS AND GRACE OF ALLAH BE UPON HIS BLESSED SOUL) did NOT complete his mission.
- "This day have I perfected for you your religion and **completed **My favor on you and chosen for you **Islam **as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." Quran 5:3
Allah says that the religion of Islam has been COMPLETED with the advent of the Quran.
- The Prophet (PBUH) in his Last Sermon told the people:
"O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. *Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people." *[Bukhari, Muslim]
And the people bore witness that he had completed his mission.
THEREFORE:
**ANY *bidah *in Islam is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.
Your **False Lying Prophet has introduced so many innovations in Islam; he has changed so many things and called himself God, and Muhammad and declared all those who don't believe in him to be non-Muslim.
What will be the recompense of such an unfortunate being?
Stop with your lying, your conceit and arrogance in thinking you can ever turn a true Muslim away from the Straight Path and onto the Path of your fitna!
You people don't even call yourselves Muslims first and foremost! You identify yourself as Ahmedis! Have some shame!
May Allah's Mercy be upon your soul.
Astagfirullah!
Do you care to provide the references so all the Muslims can view what Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S) actually wrote?
Check the video.
As I said, the video **substantiates **our claim of your being out of Islam... It is not the sole basis by which you are deemed heretics.
Even if you don't believe the video, belief in Mirza as a Prophet/Rasool/Masih is kuffar.
Yes, viewers please do go to the following link. Here are the pages quoted from the video:
- Page 229 of the book is page 29/48 in the document - WHERE MIRZA CLAIMS TO BE A MAZHAR OF KRISHNA
Oh you must have missed it! 
http://www.alislam.org/urdu/pdf/Kalma-tul-Fasal.pdf
The book is written by Mirza Bashir Ahmed MA. Thus, you cannot deny the authenticity of the text.
Here are pages quoted in the YouTube video I posted earlier:
- Page 140 of the book which is page 51/95 of the document - WHERE MIRZA CLAIMS TO BE THE SECOND COMING OF THE PROPHET
- Page 6158 of the book which is page 69/95 of the document - WHERE MIRZA CLAIMS TO BE THE SECOND COMING OF THE PROPHET
If you have PDF Acrobat Viewer you can see the video creator’s references are accurate.
Well what I have quoted is from Al Islam. I have posted the link to the BOOKS in which Mirza claims to be Allah and Muhammad - books posted from your own website.
And secondly: the official Ahmadiyya website will gloss over the details which they don’t want people to know or which they are embarassed off. Like Mirza’s bizarre claims of divinity which 99% of Ahmedis don’t even know about!
Even Satan praises Almighty Allah. All beings in the Creation are bound to.
Re: Punjab Police's great service to Islam - defaces/erases Kalima Tayyaba from mosqu
I say even if they are out os Islam who gives anyone right to bother them with their ways fo worship.. if they are committing sin they will be answerable on judgement day.. All these nutjobs who go aournd moral policing how certian religion be practiced seems like they have no faith in almightyotherwise they wud have left it to him to judge
It clearly shows that you have’nt read the book yourself. You are just looking around anti ahmadiyya material and copying it in this forum. If you had read it, you wouldn’t have missed the following point that Hadhrat Mirza Bashir Ahmad is trying to make. Read from page 15/95. Or, read from following image.
It clearly states that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, was not actually Huzur (saw) in person, but was given this name by Allah in accordance with the ayat in Quran (Akhareena Minhum).
It is quite obsurd that people can name their children, Muhammad, Ahmad, Moosa, Isah, Haroon etc, and no one argues, but when Allah gives such names to his prophets, than you can’t digest it.
I told you:
This video substantiates our claims - we do not base them solely off it.
The fact of the matter is you have taken one claim that Mirza makes and said: “Well, no, what really is true is XYZ.” The thing you haven’t and can’t address is that he makes multiple such claims and multiple such lies. Take for example, where he claims he is Krishna, or the mazhar of Krishna.
Any Muslim writing that can never be a Muslim because he aknowledges Hinduism is true and he aknowledges that Krishna is a deity, both of which are equivalent to shirk. I am sure you would not disagree.
Then for example, the other place where Mirza says that the Prophet (PBUH) came before as Muhammad (PBUH) and comes now as Ahmed (meaning himself).
**
These are claims that Mirza makes himself.**
It’s very easy for you to say: “well, I don’t believe them, Ahmedis don’t believe that,” but the fact of the matter is that if you don’t believe that, you’re rejecting Mirza’s own assertions.
These are all LEGITIMATE Ahmedi books from the source YOU provided.
First you use the argument that I’m using anti-Ahmeddiya sources - then when I use your own books from your own websites to show how disturbed Mirza really was you start nitpicking at the details.
Look, stay consistent: either debate the sources or debate the content. Stop fluctuating in the middle.
All I want to say to you is this:
By your actions and deeds, you, your fellow Ahmedis and your Mirza bear witness that the Prophet Muhamamad (MAY THE BLESSINGS AND GRACE OF ALLAH BE UPON HIS BLESSED SOUL) did NOT complete his mission.
- “This day have I perfected for you your religion and **completed **My favor on you and chosen for you **Islam **as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” Quran 5:3
Allah says that the religion of Islam has been COMPLETED with the advent of the Quran.
- The Prophet (PBUH) in his Last Sermon told the people:
"O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. **Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people." **[Bukhari, Muslim]
And the people bore witness that he had completed his mission.
THEREFORE:
**ANY *bidah *in Islam is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.
**Your False Lying Prophet has introduced so many innovations in Islam; he has changed so many things and called himself God, and Muhammad and declared all those who don’t believe in him to be non-Muslim.
What will be the recompense of such an unfortunate being?
Re: Punjab Police's great service to Islam - defaces/erases Kalima Tayyaba from mosqu
PS: How **do **you deal with this:
The Prophet (PBUH) in his Last Sermon told the people:
"O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me **two **things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray."[Bukhari, Muslim]
First of all, if Mirza is really coming after the Prophet (PBUH) the Prophet would have given much more of an indication he was coming. No where in the *ahadith *do we find such an assertion.
And secondly, after the Prophet, Islam is complete; it is perfect.
Well, clearly you have some deep theological divides with mainstream Muslims - you have changed several things, such as the mainstream belief about Isa (PBUH) and Jihad. These are additions to the religion.
You are ahl-e-biddat.
I say even if they are out os Islam who gives anyone right to bother them with their ways fo worship.. if they are committing sin they will be answerable on judgement day.. All these nutjobs who go aournd moral policing how certian religion be practiced seems like they have no faith in almightyotherwise they wud have left it to him to judge
Dude, who wants to bother them? I certainly don't.
I have the utmost respect for any of my fellow Pakistani brothers, be he Shia or Sunni or Christian or Ahmedi.
But we're talking about legal matters here: look at the topic title. It isn't 'Ahmedis shouldn't be allowed to practise their religion.' Instead, it's about a specific event that occured with specific allegations levelled against the Punjab police. This is what we are disputing.
As for freedom of religion, the Constitution of Pakistan guarantees freedom of religious practise for all of it's citizens, but it does not grant the status of a Muslim to all of them. There is a difference.
PS: How **do **you deal with this:
The Prophet (PBUH) in his Last Sermon told the people:
"O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me **two **things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray."[Bukhari, Muslim]
First of all, if Mirza is really coming after the Prophet (PBUH) the Prophet would have given much more of an indication he was coming. No where in the *ahadith *do we find such an assertion.
And secondly, after the Prophet, Islam is complete; it is perfect.
Well, clearly you have some deep theological divides with mainstream Muslims - you have changed several things, such as the mainstream belief about Isa (PBUH) and Jihad. These are additions to the religion.
You are ahl-e-biddat.
How do you deal with this and still believe in mahdi and 2nd coming of messiah. Why do you need Jesus AS to rescue you when everything is perfect. Islam is perfect. no doubt about. nothing could be added or deleted from it [though there were "muslims" who believed some quranic verses are 'mansookh']. but muslims are not perfect. they tend to forget the original teachings of Islam. How would you deal with promise of 'mujaddadiat' [reformers, renovaters] for every century when your perfection knows no bounds.
Divine intervention is needed when the some beliefs are corrupted, if the Jesus AS on his coming will agree with you on every count then why do you need him?
Oh, I remember, he will fight battles for you and bring political power for you. right? Same were the beliefs when Jesus AS was sent among jews and majority of them rejected him since they were expecting someone who will restore their kingdom.
you are ahle-hypocrisy.
This video is a very convincing proof that Qadianis consider Mohammad in kalima to refer to MGA.
Thanx for posting tasavur.
Change your kalima and add Muhammad PBUH of Arabia in your kalima and then whoever agrees to that kalima will be considered Muslim. Good enough?
If Kalima cannot change, then let Allah decide who one think when s/he say La illaaha Illallahu Muhammadur RasulAllah.
Re: Punjab Police’s great service to Islam - defaces/erases Kalima Tayyaba from mosqu
Did Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani claimed to be Allah?
This allegation has already been replied. Whosoever has any issue please visit the following thread and view the reply from post 5 and onwards.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/321927-allegations-against-ahmediyya.html
Re: Punjab Police’s great service to Islam - defaces/erases Kalima Tayyaba from mosqu
Did Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahamd Qadiani claimed to be Krishna?
Kindly visit the follwoing link and read the full book before making up your mind.
http://www.alislam.org/urdu/rk/rk-20-73.pdf
Page 229 of the book is page 29/48 in the document
In short Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (A.S) is saying that Hadhrat Krishna was a Prophet of Allah. And Allah had promissed to send his Barooz in end times. And this Promissed is also fulfilled through my coming. And he further says that he is given the sifaat of Hadhrat Krishna. These few lines on this page cannot do justice to what is written in whole book. You can only understand the subject matter once you have read the whole book.
This book is not written by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (A.S) hence you cannot say that this is what hadhrat sb (A.S) claimed. Only books written by Promissed Messiah and Khulefa can be considered to be based on what Jamaat Ahmadiyya believe. I have not read the references yet but your allegation may be valid but this cannot be taken as an allegation against Jamaat Ahamdiyya but allegation against Mirza Bashir Ahmad MA. And I dont care what you write about him or me or Tom Dick and Harry.
- "This day have I perfected for you your religion and **completed **My favor on you and chosen for you **Islam **as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." Quran 5:3
Allah says that the religion of Islam has been COMPLETED with the advent of the Quran.
- The Prophet (PBUH) in his Last Sermon told the people:
"O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. *Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people." *[Bukhari, Muslim]
And the people bore witness that he had completed his mission.
excellent you are proving your point that there is no need for Jesus (A.S) to come down from 7th heaven and help you guys out becuase your deen is complete...you have Quran...you have hadith...you can never go astray....man carry on believing this.
PS: How **do **you deal with this:
The Prophet (PBUH) in his Last Sermon told the people:
"O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me **two **things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray."[Bukhari, Muslim]
Hadhrat sb (A.S) never claimed to be a Shar'ai Prophet.
[quote]
First of all, if Mirza is really coming after the Prophet (PBUH) the Prophet would have given much more of an indication he was coming. No where in the *ahadith *do we find such an assertion.
And secondly, after the Prophet, Islam is complete; it is perfect.
Well, clearly you have some deep theological divides with mainstream Muslims - you have changed several things, such as the mainstream belief about Isa (PBUH) and Jihad. These are additions to the religion.
You are ahl-e-biddat.
[/QUOTE]
The indications things you are talking about is completely rubbish. If you are asking for clear indication that a Prmissed Messiah will come in 1889 and his name will be Ghulam Ahmad then trust me you have had 100s of people claiming to be Mahdi. Only Allah differnciate good from bad and he has always and he will now as well.
again you refered to me as ahl e biddat...I would only reply that may Allah guide you to right path...ameen
Dude, who wants to bother them? I certainly don't.
I have the utmost respect for any of my fellow Pakistani brothers, be he Shia or Sunni or Christian or Ahmedi.
But we're talking about legal matters here: look at the topic title. It isn't 'Ahmedis shouldn't be allowed to practise their religion.' Instead, it's about a specific event that occured with specific allegations levelled against the Punjab police. This is what we are disputing.
As for freedom of religion, the Constitution of Pakistan guarantees freedom of religious practise for all of it's citizens, but it does not grant the status of a Muslim to all of them. There is a difference.
excellent you are back on topic....
look mate didnt your heart cried out that Islam is a universal religion. Holy Prophet SAW teaching is for every living thing on planet. He was a rehmat for Jinno ins.
Hence this prooves Muslims do not have copy right of Kalima. Islam is a universal religion.
Secondly the way the Police were erasing and breaking Kalima was a Blasphemy. If you guys (Sunni in Majority) had a chance then you would have erased it from Shia mosques as well. Why not?..its not because Sunni consider Shia Muslim..no Sir....there is more hatred against Shia's then there is against Ahmadies but Shia reply you back. You kill their two they ll kill your 4.
But Ahmadies on other hand are peaceful people. They can only pray to Allah for help and thats what they do, always did and will always do.
Re: Punjab Police's great service to Islam - defaces/erases Kalima Tayyaba from mosqu
Private property > religion.
deal with it
Re: Punjab Police's great service to Islam - defaces/erases Kalima Tayyaba from mosqu
i have one simple question.
whenever a hindu or christian or a buddhist says salam (n i've seen foreigners do it when they go to pakistan) then we become happy n say wasalam to their salam.. we think it's something different n we feel gud. but when an ahmadiyya says it then it's punishable??? i don't get it..
[QUOTE]
Tasavur quotes:
In fact, even if he didn't do these things, you Ahmedis believe in a man who will be grasped by his beard and thrown into the fire of Jahanam, Insh'Allah.
[/QUOTE]
In Quran Allah says
38:62 "And they*the inmates of hell*] will say, ‘What has happened to us that we see not the men whom we used to reckon among the wicked?"
38:63 "‘Is it because we subjected them to ridicule unjustly, or have the eyes missed them?’"