Re: Punjab not to allow IDP camps
burqaposhx/spock. This is the objectionable part:
So, we have decided not to permit their entry or setting up of camps for them in the Punjab,” sources in the provincial government said.
You say setting up camps is problematic, fine. Not permitting their entry is idiotic, and kindof makes their welcoming into private homes difficult.
Re: Punjab not to allow IDP camps
No one can stop anyones entry into Punjab, its impossible. Most of Muzaffarabad and district (destroyed after the quake) settled into Pindi and adjoining areas, no one could stop them.
Re: Punjab not to allow IDP camps
^ besides the point. movement in your country should be a right, not an evasion of law-enforcement.
the rights you have as an illegal immigrant type person unwelcome by the authorities and as a citizen exercising right of free movement are very different.
burqaposhx/spock. This is the objectionable part:
So, we have decided not to permit their entry ..
I saw that.
But have you heard that "anyone on the ground is stopping anyone from entering Punajb"?
In fact the major land routes even to Sindh and Balochistan are through Punjab. So anyone moving South from Swat is being allowed to go anywhere they want.
So is this good enough to stop this cock-fight or abhi bhi ghussa thanda nahin huwa?
Re: Punjab not to allow IDP camps
^ no fight yar.
if you say this policy isnt being actualized its well and good. im much happier to believe the statement is boneheaded incompetance instead of callousness. to the best of my knowledge however, the IDPs havent as yet started to make their way down south in a sizeable enough number for a 'proof in the pudding' kinda argument as yet. but i hope you are correct when they do start saturating the facilities nwfp can provide and start moving to other parts in large numbers.
For the mindless lot, the refugees can settle whereever they want (except Karachi because Bhai's top commando ishrat dadda ibaad has comissioned new commandoes to take out refugees)... Its just that the Govt will not setup 'camps' for them. Not setting up camps is different from NOT allowing someone to enter the province. Use your grey matter.
Actual settlement of IDPs is no issue at all, because everyone knows that Punjab has, does, and will house them no matter what (if not officially, then unofficially), and that too in huge numbers. So many people from Punjab have already contributed large chunks of funds and other necessities to accommodate the displaced. It's the statement that retards the situation and allows for fuel to the fire. Such statements either need to be crisp and clear to the letter, or not be said at all by official sources because it creates mindlessness and confusion. Not only that it allows anyone looking for the slightest chance, to pounce on the news and spread it like wildfire that was just waiting to happen. It looks hypocritic on the part of Punjab Govt to say "can't allow for the fear of Afghan refugee situation", because it sends other the signal that somehow it's okay for others to have this problem, but not this province? Yes, true lessons learned and should be acted on, but sensitivities have to be taken into consideration. And the mannerism is one department where our politicians are F-
On the same token, khehkshan should've condemned with the same vigor the action of Karachi Govt when certain citizens where outright banned from entering the city on no grounds and logical basis whatsoever. So lets not get ahead of ourselves here, the accuser's favorite party doesn't have the best track record in this regard either. Just a little reality check ;)
Re: Punjab not to allow IDP camps
1 loud mouthed taliban supporter does not equal poor displaced people running from war. but don't worry, dear nawazists, no one wants to come to your land anyway. This is not one isolated incident, but a long tradition of history from 1947.
1 loud mouthed taliban supporter does not equal poor displaced people running from war. but don't worry, dear nawazists, no one wants to come to your land anyway. This is not one isolated incident, but a long tradition of history from 1947.
First of all not all punjabis or those opposing mqm are "nawazists", most of us are pretty progressive in our choice of parties that we can choose from. the "nawazistism" is a phobia you will have to get over. the sooner the better.
secondly, "my land" is Pakistan. :) i don't confine myself to throwing provincial tantrum and act quickly to draw ethnic lines, you seem to do that almost frequently and every chance you get. weren't you justifying Karachi Govt's racial policies towards pashtuns just a few days ago, and now all of a sudden you've found love in them? double-standards or just suitable circumstances and timing?
so how about laying off the rhetoric for a while...and telling Dear Mr. Mayor that not every pashtun is a taliban extremist, that would be a good start, then you can assume the moral high ground and profess to others.
i still say the statement and decision by Punjab Govt is wrong and should be withdrawn because it will not make a difference, people of Punjab will still continue to support the IDPs overwhelmingly.
when was the last time you disagreed to or called a wrong a wrong, there have been a few opportunities you know...? :)
Actual settlement of IDPs is no issue at all, because everyone knows that Punjab has, does, and will house them no matter what (if not officially, then unofficially), and that too in huge numbers. So many people from Punjab have already contributed large chunks of funds and other necessities to accommodate the displaced. It's the statement that retards the situation and allows for fuel to the fire. Such statements either need to be crisp and clear to the letter, or not be said at all by official sources because it creates mindlessness and confusion. Not only that it allows anyone looking for the slightest chance, to pounce on the news and spread it like wildfire that was just waiting to happen. It looks hypocritic on the part of Punjab Govt to say "can't allow for the fear of Afghan refugee situation", because it sends other the signal that somehow it's okay for others to have this problem, but not this province? Yes, true lessons learned and should be acted on, but sensitivities have to be taken into consideration. And the mannerism is one department where our politicians are F-
On the same token, khehkshan should've condemned with the same vigor the action of Karachi Govt when certain citizens where outright banned from entering the city on no grounds and logical basis whatsoever. So lets not get ahead of ourselves here, the accuser's favorite party doesn't have the best track record in this regard either. Just a little reality check ;)
couldnt agree more. it was selfish political statement, and after all the govt is supposed represent its people. punjab govt if was indeed concerned about trouble sectors they should take control of the settlement of IDPs and monitor these settlement with set procedures that should keep tabs on refugees if need arises. simply saying there could be taliban so we are not officially welcoming IDPs is silly sand stupid since we all knew this military action would end up producing a humanitarian crisis and so did punjab govt.
Re: Punjab not to allow IDP camps
oh and khekeshan not every punjabi is pro nawaz, there are certain principles that should be held in focus and whoever and which ever action crosses those principles then should be answerable. i would appreciate it if you could make principles focus rather than party. i have found you very bais in being pro mqm because you try to put a positive spin on every harebrained action and word of that party.
1 loud mouthed taliban supporter does not equal poor displaced people running from war. but don't worry, dear nawazists, no one wants to come to your land anyway. This is not one isolated incident, but a long tradition of history from 1947.
Punjab government is making a huge mistake because this decision will give a chance to opportunists such as Kehkeshan to spread ethnic hatered (their best weapon) to create even more trouble.
The fact is that most punjabis ( or Sindhis, Muhajirs, Balochis or pathans for that matter) are doing so much for these refugees, i have been watching Pak news channels non stop and i have seen so many of punjabis ( actors, singers, public, politicians) spending sleepless nights there to help refugees. Refugees will go all around Pakistan no matter what so why make this dumb decision to give these crooks a chance to create more rift????
Sind has also refused entry to IDPs
See DD's thread
^ besides the point. movement in your country should be a right, not an evasion of law-enforcement.
the rights you have as an illegal immigrant type person unwelcome by the authorities and as a citizen exercising right of free movement are very different.
blah blah blah prove to me if there has been a single IDP who was sent back or barred from entering Punjab. In Karachi however, thanks to the MQM a task force of special police has been commissioned by ishrat-ul-ibaad (presidential commando MQM) to prevent them, and keep in mind a VERY SMALL percentage of the total refugees would travel all the way to Karachi, because its FAR away and costs money and the logistics does not suit them, especially if they want to return to their home cities. Like it or not, the MQM is giving the whole city of Karachi a bad name with this ethnic chirade.
Sind has also refused entry to IDPs
See DD's thread
Punjab has NOT refused entries, it has hundreds of thousands of IDPs in it already.
Yeah, hes so concerned about Punjab not setting up camps, that he overlooked how his party is actually supporting strike calls against IDPs entering their city
Muttahida supports JSQM strike call | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online
MQM Rabita Committee has assured its full support to the Jeay Sindh Qaumi Mahaz (JSQM) call for a peaceful strike tomorrow (Saturday) in protest against the settlement of displaced persons of Swat and Malakand in Sindh.
Re: Punjab not to allow IDP camps
Nice one. The Punjab government can continue to concentrate on things like Basant and tourism and continue to ignore the needs of the Pakistani people.
This is really very disappointing....
blah blah blah prove to me if there has been a single IDP who was sent back or barred from entering Punjab.
How many IDPs have been sent back from Karachi? I dont expect the city or provincial governments to have the resources necessary to round up IDPs. What they can do is create an environment inhospitable to these people.
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In Karachi however, thanks to the MQM a task force of special police has been commissioned by ishrat-ul-ibaad (presidential commando MQM) to prevent them
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Which is equally condemnable. The difference between you and me is that I am not a kneejerk partisan of ANY group/demographic/party/personality. You are.
The fact that you came into this thread and said: "Its just that the Govt will not setup 'camps' for them. Not setting up camps is different from NOT allowing someone to enter the province.", after the govt. official said they wouldnt allow IDPs is proof of that.
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and keep in mind a VERY SMALL percentage of the total refugees would travel all the way to Karachi, because its FAR away and costs money and the logistics does not suit them, especially if they want to return to their home cities.
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Not true. Karachi is very suitable for IDPs who are more likely to find family in the city of Karachi than any other city of Pakistan. It is the largest or second largest concentration of Pashtuns, and more should be very welcome.
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Like it or not, the MQM is giving the whole city of Karachi a bad name with this ethnic chirade.
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For sure, but thats not the topic here.
How many IDPs have been sent back from Karachi? I dont expect the city or provincial governments to have the resources necessary to round up IDPs. What they can do is create an environment inhospitable to these people.
When they start getting there, they will be. As for boss altaf's talibanization of karaanchi myth, bhool gaye?
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Which is equally condemnable. The difference between you and me is that I am not a kneejerk partisan of ANY group/demographic/party/personality. You are.
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So which party do I belong to? JI PTI or PMLN, this time be specific, you on the other are just MQM, loud and clear.
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The fact that you came into this thread and said: "Its just that the Govt will not setup 'camps' for them. Not setting up camps is different from NOT allowing someone to enter the province.", after the govt. official said they wouldnt allow IDPs is proof of that.
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So tell me oh Einstein, 'how' would they stop people from stepping into punjab. Did they comission an armed task force like governor ishrat-commando did?
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Not true. Karachi is very suitable for IDPs who are more likely to find family in the city of Karachi than any other city of Pakistan. It is the largest or second largest concentration of Pashtuns, and more should be very welcome.
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i) firstly, we're not talking about pakhtuns from peshawar or even waziristan here
ii) secondly, it costs money (and time) to get goto a city thousands of kms away, neither of which they have
When they start getting there, they will be. As for boss altaf's talibanization of karaanchi myth, bhool gaye?
We'll see if they will be, however as it stands neither Punjab nor Sindh has sent back any IDPs. You suggested that as the test, not me.
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So which party do I belong to? JI PTI or PMLN, this time be specific, you on the other are just MQM, loud and clear.
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You wish to get me into the game of Oh no Im not MQM please dont malign me etc etc. Think of me what you will, I will only address the topic at hand.
I criticized you on a specific point: a kneejerk response along partisan lines of saying that no punjab government is only talking about camps, presumably based on the thread title. Two lines in the article the official says they wont permit entry of IDPs.
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So tell me oh Einstein, 'how' would they stop people from stepping into punjab. Did they comission an armed task force like governor ishrat-commando did?
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Merely giving a statement of intent along those lines is idiotic and worth criticizing. If and when they do anything beyond that I will comment on that too.
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i) firstly, we're not talking about pakhtuns from peshawar or even waziristan here
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Great.
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ii) secondly, it costs money (and time) to get goto a city thousands of kms away, neither of which they have
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They will have time, and there are enough of them who also have some money. If Karachi wasnt a viable locus of refugees you wouldnt have been the one to open a thread on whether they would be welcome in Karachi. In that thread you said MQM would commit a genocide on the refugees. The word genocide alone connotes a very large number of people.
Stop shifting positions in different threads.
We'll see if they will be, however as it stands neither Punjab nor Sindh has sent back any IDPs. You suggested that as the test, not me.
No one would dare goto Karachi in the first place, can you explain the armed force ishrat ibaad has ready for their welcome?
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You wish to get me into the game of Oh no Im not MQM please dont malign me etc etc. Think of me what you will, I will only address the topic at hand.
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You made the accusation to begin with. Also, you can deny it all you want, but that doesnt change my opinion.
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I criticized you on a specific point: a kneejerk response along partisan lines of saying that no punjab government is only talking about camps, presumably based on the thread title. Two lines in the article the official says they wont permit entry of IDPs.
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So can you explain the hundreds of thousands of IDPs in Punjab right now? Are they staying in some island detached from the province?
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Merely giving a statement of intent along those lines is idiotic and worth criticizing. If and when they do anything beyond that I will comment on that too.
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So what do you think about MQM's hartaal call against the IDPs?
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Great.
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So you were wrong again :)
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They will have time, and there are enough of them who also have some money. If Karachi wasnt a viable locus of refugees you wouldnt have been the one to open a thread on whether they would be welcome in Karachi. In that thread you said MQM would commit a genocide on the refugees. The word genocide alone connotes a very large number of people.
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I made that thread to prove a point, and i was right wasnt I? The point is simple, the party sitting thousands of kms away working on their vested political agendas on someone else's orders wouldnt even allow refugees into the city they rule/govern. Thats exactly what happened didnt it?
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Stop shifting positions in different threads.
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Which positions? My positions are pretty straightforward and never change. You shoudl go post some noor jehan anti-indian war songs to divert attention from the massive IDP humanitarian disaster in the making.