Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

[deedawar]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

Only outsiders (british) could save punjab from Ranjit singh' brutal rule.
For hundreds of years.....punjab was ruled by someome outside or saved by someone outside.

500,000 Years: Pre-historic and Proto-historic existance of early mankind

2500 - 1500 B.C.: Harappa Culture

2500 - 700 B.C.: Rigvedic Aryan Civilization

599 B.C.: Jainism

567 - 487 B.C.: Budha

550 B.C - 600 A.D.: Budhism remained prevelent

550 - 515 B.C.: Persian Invasion to west of Indus River

326 B.C.: Alexander's Invasion

322 - 298 B.C.: Chandra Gupta Maurya Period

273 - 232 B.C.: Ashoka's Period

125 - 160 B.C.: Rise of the Sakas (Scythians known as Jat ancestors)

2 B.C.: Beginning of Rule of the Sakas.

45 - 180 A.D.: Rule of the Kushanas

320 - 550 A.D.: Gupta Empire

500 A.D.: Huns Invasion

510 - 650 A.D.: Vardhanas Era

647 - 1192 A.D.: Rajput Period

713 - 1300 A.D.: Muslim Invaders (Turks and Arabs) famous invaders like Mahmud Gori and Mahmud Ghazni

8th Century A.D.: Arabs capture Sind and Multan

1450 - 1700 A.D.: Mughal Rulers

1469 - 1539 A.D.: Guru Nanak Dev Ji (1st Sikh Guru)

1539 - 1675 A.D.: Period of 8 Sikh Gurus from Guru Angad Dev Ji to Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji

1675 - 1708 A.D.: Guru Gobind Singh Ji (10th Sikh Guru)

1699 A.D.: Birth of the Khalsa

1708 - 1715 A.D.: Conquests of Banda Bahadur

1716 - 1759 A.D.: Sikh struggle against Moghul Governors

1739 A.D.: Invasion of Nadir Shah

1748 -1769 A.D.: Ahmed Shah Abdali's nine invasions

1762 A.D.: 2nd Holocaust (Ghalughara) from Ahmed Shah's 6th invasion

1764 - 1799 A.D.: Rule of the Sikh Misls

1799 - 1839 A.D.: Rule by Maharaja Ranjit Singh

1849 A.D.: Annexation of Punjab

1849 - 1947 A.D.: British Rule

1947 A.D.: Partition of India thus Punjab into 2 parts the Eastern part became the Indian Punjab and the Western part the Pakistan Punjab

1966 A.D.: Punjab in India divided into 3 parts on Linguistic basis

(Haryana, Himachal and Punjabi suba the present Punjab)

1984 A.D.: Operation Blue Star and its aftermath

[Pakistan4ever]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

Ranjit Singh himself was a Punjabi! His kingdom was for a very brief time-period and consisted equally of Muslims and Sikhs.

Your time-table is very flawed (e.g. Gupta Empire never included Pakistan region.. and many other errors in the chart)

Harappans, Rig Vedic Aryans, Scythians, Kushans, White Huns, and many others are the ancestors of Punjabis (and other Pakistanis).

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@elahi

… to some pashtun tribes who betrayed Syed Ahmed Shaheed to the Sikhs… I think as a whole all ethnic groups from A to Z can be accused of something, thats why they say only idiots generalize.

Dear Elahi, Sayed Ahmad Barelvi committed blunders. After proclaiming himself the ruler, he became authoritarian. He demanded that the Pashtun tribes give their daughtors in marriage to his fellow Hindustanis (i.e. Hindustani “Mujahideens” that had come with him from India) something against the norms of a tribal society.

The other thing he did was to kill a Yousafzai noble of Sawabi and imprison his daughter and wife something utterly against Pashtunwali where dishonoring women is not tolerated. So people revolted against him.

[elahi]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@LastOfTheDinosaurs

Dear Elahi, Sayed Ahmad Barelvi committed blunders. After proclaiming himself the ruler, he became authoritarian. He demanded that the Pashtun tribes give their daughtors in marriage to his fellow Hindustanis (i.e. Hindustani “Mujahideens” that had come with him from India) something against the norms of a tribal society.

The other thing he did was to kill a Yousafzai noble of Sawabi and imprison his daughter and wife something utterly against Pashtunwali where dishonoring women is not tolerated. So people revolted against him.

Dinosaur bhai… I don’t mean to offend you or make any specific charge against Pashtuns, I only mean that if we generalize and point fingers every muslim ethnic groups is guilty of some wrong. I’m sure that you are right about the specifics of this particuler example.

[deedawar]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@Pakistan4ever

Ranjit Singh himself was a Punjabi! His kingdom was for a very brief time-period and consisted equally of Muslims and Sikhs.

Your time-table is very flawed (e.g. Gupta Empire never included Pakistan region.. and many other errors in the chart)

Harappans, Rig Vedic Aryans, Scythians, Kushans, White Huns, and many others are the ancestors of Punjabis (and other Pakistanis).

read my post again…I never said throughout all history…I said for hunderds of years…

Rangit singh was an evil dictator for Punjabis and Punjab was saved by britons in some way. When did I say he was no Punjabi?

[antiobl]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

^^ and who are you reading deedee? Some MAToo rag?
Ranjit Singh brought peace back in Punjab, Sarhad and Afghanistan. His target were those who had created anarchy in the region. He was shrewd leader who made alliances without worrying too much of religious affiliation. Qasur, Multan and other Muslim dominated areas were in fact ruled by Muslim governors.

Brits respected his might and never crossed river Satluj until after his death.

No need for that last sentence. Edited for violating section 8 of the rules. Generalisations about a poster’s ethnic group constitute a section 8 violation.
mAd_ScIeNtIsT

[deedawar]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

Anti- my sister!.......I am not 'deedee'...read again..its deedawar.

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@Pakistan4ever

PUNJABI MUSLIMS, SIKHS AND THE BRITISH

The British too did not have smooth running in the early period of their rule in the Punjab. Writing about the unrest among the Punjabi Muslims during the 1857 Mutiny, Mr. S S Thorburn, ICS, a Financial Commissioner of the Punjab has the following to say:

The feudals of Punjab helped the British quell the mutiny of 1957, something recorded by authentic histories. If there was any resistance by Punjab to colonialists, it was such small-scale and insignificant as not to be worthy of mentioning.

For the Punjabi Muslims it was a most painful dilemma. His rulers to the east—the Delhi emperors and their armies comprising northern India Muslims—had degenerated beyond redemption. They had already been subdued both by the Marathas and the British by 1800 AD. While in the west, the dispute for the throne had thrown the Afghans into disarray so much so that they too were defeated and pushed beyond the Khyber by the vigorous Sikhs. Thus, if the two organised Muslim kingdoms of the mughals in the east and the Afghans in the west with all the wherewithal could not stand the British and the Sikh powers, how could the Punjabi Muslims, who were neither armed nor organised, overcame the same Sikhs and British? This argument becomes more c…ogent and convincing when considered in the light of the fact that the Punjabi Muslims had no independent kingdom or armies of their own like the Muslims of northern India or Afghanistan nor were they hardly recruited in the armies of the Mughal empire of which the Punjab formed a province.

This is a weak argument. The point isn’t of Muslim Kingdoms resistance to British imperialism, rather of common masses in any form-military, political, or literary. Unfortunately, Punjabis not only didn’t put up any resistence, they on the contrary co-operated with British to consolidate their empire.

Moreover, as for your arguments of unfavorable circumstances Punjab were facing, you must know how Bangali Muslims resisted British occupation heriocally for almost 200 years in adverse circumstances than Punjab. This betrayel by Punjab of the cause of freedom is a prominent feature of Indian freedom history mentioned by many many poets and literary figures.

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@antiobl

^^ and who are you reading deedee? Some MAToo rag?
Ranjit Singh brought peace back in Punjab, Sarhad and Afghanistan. His target were those who had created anarchy in the region.

This is wrong. He nevered cross Khyber. His able general Hari Singh was killed near Ali Masjid Jamrud. His only military/Strategic achievement in Pashtunkhwa was to secure the main route from i.e. Peshawar to Attock and the main city of Peshawar itself. He couldn’t step foot in rural Pashtunkhwa.

However, it is correct that his powerbase were both Sikh and Muslim although Sikh were bit more prominent in it.

[antiobl]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

^^ Cut this anti-Punjab crap dino!
First you mix up British government rule with British East-India company (BEIC) rule. Then you pick up romantic stories form Bengal and beat up Punjab with them.

Punjab was never occupied by BEIC. Thanks to Punjabi forts along Satluj, Frontier remained safe too. It had to be! as Frontier was and remained part of Punjab state all the way down to 1910.

1857 war (mutiny, ghadar, freedom struggle) ended BEIC rule and British government took over control of the subcontinent.

1850s saw the end of Punjab rule and infighting amongst Ranjit Singh's survivors.

Correction #1: BEIC couldn't have ruled the whole subcontinent ( minus "greater Punjab") without the subsurvience of UPites in the North, Bangalis in the East, and the Southies (marathas, nizam etc.). Dragging Punjabis who remained indpendent of BEIC rule is $imply $tupid.

Correction #2: Bangal lancers were effectively used by BEIC to subdue UP and other central Indian areas. So terming them as resistance fighters is far from truth.

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@antiobl

^^ Cut this anti-Punjab crap dino!
Punjab was never occupied by BEIC. Thanks to Punjabi forts along Satluj, Frontier remained safe too. It had to be! as Frontier was and remained part of Punjab state all the way down to 1910.

1857 war (mutiny, ghadar, freedom struggle) ended BEIC rule and British government took over control of the subcontinent.

Probably, you are poorly aquianted with the history of the “Greater Punjab”. The BEIC had occupied Punjab and extended the western border of its colony to Jamrud about 12 years before the 1857 mutiny. In 1845, BEIC provoked Sikhs into crossing river Sutlaj and attacking British. But British defeated them and forced them to sign the treaty of Lahore which laid the following conditions for peace…

1. Sikhs will relinquish the control of Jalandgar basin to British..
2. British would recognize Dalip Singh as the Maharaja of Punjab.
3. Sikh will agree to the appointment of a British Resident in their Darbar.
4. Sikh will agree to pay once crore and fifty lach rupees as war damage to British…

As Sikhs only had 50 lachs rupees, so they gave British Jammu and Kashmir for the remaining 1 crore rupees, which British later sold to Gulab Singh. From this point onward, an assembly of 8 Sikh sardars with Sir Henry Lawrence as the head ran the affair of the Sikh state. Every district of the state had a British resident..so practically, the British were governing the Sikh state. Feeling that they didn’t have any control, Sikh revolted in Multan but were defeated.

After this defeat, Lord Dalhozi of the East India Company declared the abolition of Sikh state and the merger of its territories, including Pashtunkhwa, with the rest of the British India. This was accomplished in March 1849.

1850s saw the end of Punjab rule and infighting amongst Ranjit Singh’s survivors.

If the 1850 saw the end of the Punjab and 1857 that of British East India Company, then who put an end to Punjab and what was the status of Punjab in the intervening years? Are not you refuting your own statement i.e. BEIC never ruled Punjab?

Correction #1: BEIC couldn’t have ruled the whole subcontinent ( minus “greater Punjab”) without the subsurvience of UPites in the North, Bangalis in the East, and the Southies (marathas, nizam etc.). Dragging Punjabis who remained indpendent of BEIC rule is $imply $tupid.

The total length of the resistence of Sikh Punjabis to British rule was not more than 2 battles between 1845 and 1849. As for Punjabi Musalmans (called PMs by British), they never resisted British and were allied with or obeyed them, at all level of their society, till 1947. On the contrary, it took BEIC about 75 years to bring Bangal, UP, other areas under firm control and after a lot of resistence and battles. There was firm military, political, and literary/ideological resistence to British in UP, Bangal, and the rest of Hindustan before and after 1857.

Correction #2: Bangal lancers were effectively used by BEIC to subdue UP and other central Indian areas. So terming them as resistance fighters is far from truth.

Every nation has traitors but then nations have heroes also. To judge we should see that on the whole, what is the attitude of a nation to occupation and in what form, -military or political or ideological, does that get expressed! We should accept that Bangali Muslims have offered resistence in all forms—and not only to British but also Hindus.

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

In case of a war with the potential to destroy Lahore and Faisalabad, the elite will never put up resistence and will simply submit....there is hardly any temprament for independent mindedness (and so for a wider and broad-based resistence...)

[antiobl]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@LastOfTheDinosaurs

…The total length of the resistence of Sikh Punjabis to British rule was not more than 2 battles between 1845 and 1849. …

chankya maharaj is quick to divide Punjabis along religious lines, while portraying the rest of the subocntinent (Bhan mati ka kunba - Bhan Mati’s family) as one.

You can’t deny the fact Bangla and other Hindustanis were subjugated for a long time when 1840s saw the end of Punjabi rule overr greater Punjab.

There may be many reasons, but Sirajud Dola’s defeat meant an end to any resistance that Bangalis could muster.

I see many Kommies here in Pakistan trying their best to divide Punjabi history along religious lines while putting down Punjabi Muslims. This is the worst kind of ethnic hatred that I have ever seen.

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

This is simply astounding! On the one hand, you as a Punjabi, are the staunch defender of two-nation theory but on the other lump the two histories together to take the credit for whatever deads others accomplished...this in face of the fact that Sikh uprising not only had ...nationalistic undertones but also religious............and then you also talk of the Greater Punjab, which implies (nothing other than) "at least" the "socio-cultural unity", if not geopolitical, of Sikhs and Punjabi Muslims.

[Malakand]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@antiobl

^^ and who are you reading deedee? Some MAToo rag?
Ranjit Singh brought peace back in Punjab, Sarhad and Afghanistan. His target were those who had created anarchy in the region. He was shrewd leader who made alliances without worrying too much of religious affiliation. Qasur, Multan and other Muslim dominated areas were in fact ruled by Muslim governors.

Brits respected his might and never crossed river Satluj until after his death.

*No need for that last sentence. Edited for violating section 8 of the rules.Generalisations about a poster’s ethnic group constitute a section 8 violation. *
mAd_ScIeNtIsT

Ranjit Singh was our “Tax collector” for the Punjab region.

[Malakand]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@LastOfTheDinosaurs

This is simply astounding! On the one hand, you as a Punjabi, are the staunch defender of two-nation theory but on the other lump the two histories together to take the credit for whatever deads others accomplished…this in face of the fact that Sikh uprising not only had national undertones but also religious…and then you also talk of the Greater Punjab, which implies (nothing other than) “at least” the “socio-cultural unity” of Sikhs and Punjabi Muslims.

I have seen many muslim paki punjabis display Rajit Sigh picture on their living rooms. I think atiobl is one of them.

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@Malakand

I have seen many muslim paki punjabis display Rajit Sigh picture on their living rooms. I think atiobl is one of them.

Yes, this is their right and they are one nation, in my opinion, irrespective of the diversity of faith but they should not be hypocritic about it and shouldn’t then talk of the Two Nation Theory or Pakistani nationalism…

These are strange inconsistencies. For example Hussain Shaheed Suharwardi tried to avoid the division of Bangal on religious ground into East and West Bangal and maintain its unity as an independent state to which Qaud-i-Azam also agreed (Great Divide by Hudson). Such a political attempt was made in the case of Punjab also.

The question is, once you declare religion/Islam as the base of nationhood, how can you agree to lumping Hindu Wast Bangal and Muslim East Bangal into one nation.

[Chel_Chabila_Babu]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

[quote]
Interstingly, those people who don't have any worthwhile contribution in freedom struggle (against British or other powers before them)
[/quote]

What was Bhagat Singh and Udham Singh and Kartar Singh and Madan Laal Dhingra if not PUNJABI???

If it hadn't been for these guys together with Muslim freedom fighters we'd all still be ruled by pale unwashed arsed Brits.

Qauid-e-Azam Baba couldn't do **** for freedom, the breaking up of our country was an old British tactic "divide and rule" and they used a secularist Ismaeli/Agha-Khani Brown Sahib to achieve their goal.

[Spock]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

Chel Jalaibi, you should listen to the interview of Lord Mountbatten, you arent that well versed with history, the British tried their best to keep it united, and when all failed, they announced a premature partition plan in hopes that Pakistan would rejoin India. And next time you mention the Quaid's name, show some respect.

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

Re: Punjab and Freedom Struggle!

@Chel Chabila Babu

…and they used a secularist Ismaeli/Agha-Khani Brown Sahib to achieve their goal.

Perhaps that is wrong, he was not an Ismaili. What are your sources?