Punishment of Munkarin-e-hadiath

In the light of Islam and Quran, what is the importance of Sunnah and Hadiath ? What are the punishments (if there are any) for those who deny them ? All the members please participate to the fullest in this post as I need to get my facts straight about this issue.

My question is directly raised towards our many munkarin-e-hadiath members such as Mr.PakistanAbroad and ** Nescio**.

I just want to discuss that how these people can justify that we do not need sunnah in our lives ?

So the Basics first.

**“O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you, if you differ in anything among yourselves refer it to Allah and His apostle, if you do believe in Allah and the last day, that is best and most suitable for final determination” [Al-Nisa 59] **

This is just one example quoted from the Quran which asks Muslims to obey the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), there are other numerous examples like these in the Quran.

**" Say, If you love Allah, FOLLOW ME (i.e. to follow Muhmmad peace be upon him); Allah will love you, and grant you protection from your sins. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful " [Al-Imran 31] **

The word used here is “ITTIBA” which means to follow. Anyone knowing a little bit of Arabic can easily understand this. For those who read only translations, can refer to Surah Al-Naziat to comprehend the meaning of the word “ITTIBA”

However we find in the Quran:

**" Certainly Allah conferred a favor on the believers when He raised among them a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His Messages and purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the Wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error " [3:164] **

Regarding this the Prophet said:

**" Remember I’ve been given another thing (i.e. the hadith, the hikmah) in addition to Quran. He also warned to be aware of the time when some people would say that Quran is enough for them, but the truth would be that anything which Allah’s apostle holds haram for you would be the same as if Allah has held that thing haram for you " [Abu Dawood] **

Also in The Quran we find,

**" Whatever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatever He forbids you of, abstain from it; and fear Allah " [59:7] **

People, please tell me how some people can just abandon Sunnah ? How can they say that Sunnah is not imortant in our lives ? How can they say that Quran is just enough for our lives ? Are we talking about illiterate people here ? No as a matter of fact we are talking about very well spoken and very literate people. Then how come people like PA ( and trust me there are many more here alone on this forum who deny hadiath) can forget sunnah from their lives ?

Besides the issue that many ahaadith were written after Prophet’s time (which does not necessarily prove their falsification), One must clearly know that they were also written during the Prophet’s time.

If the narrations of ahadith are not trustworthy then who told them about the order of Surahs in The Holy Quran?

If the narrations of ahadith are not trustworthy then who told them about the various “Qir’ats” (types of recitation) of The Holy Quran? What made them choose the type of recitation by which they recite the Holy Quran now a days? What Basis?

By denying the hadith, now their prayers are not the prayers of the Prophet. And this group becomes the worst in the list of other deviated groups. They cannot show the method of Salat, Hajj, the issues of Zakat, and other issues pertaining to religion. Infact the list is so long that it is almost impossible to mention it here.

So upon what pillars do they establish their “Deen” on? On thinking of their own?! Quran does not mention the method of praying, how is one supposed to know? Just think his own way out?! or is some Munkir of Ahaadith and Sunnah going to tell how to pray? Are they more trustworthy or the companions of the Prophet who narrated the Ahaadith? And the Tabayeen and Taba Tabayeen, May Allah be pleased with them all.

**These Munkirs of Ahaadith say that Hadith and Sunnah are Innovations, Crutch and Augmentaion 3 not knowing that Hadith and Sunnah has always been present, from the Prophet’s time right uptil now and Insha Allah will remain uptil the day of resurrection. And the reality is that these Munkirs of Ahaadith are themselves latecomers, innovated and deviated.

May Allah protect all of us from falling into the trap of the Devil **

referance daal do bhaee.

and why is this thing called "punishment of munkarin-e-hadith"..

:jazak: Salman.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
referance daal do bhaee.

and why is this thing called "punishment of munkarin-e-hadith"..
[/QUOTE]

Click profile on PA post. You will find plenty of references in his religion forum posts.

And read my post brother ravage, I have said "Punishment ( if any )

-Salman

just reading moronic threads like these from 'religious' thugs is punishment enough

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
just reading moronic threads like these from 'religious' thugs is punishment enough
[/QUOTE]

Ouch * does my thread hurt you ? Awww I am sorry buddy...But honestly PA, is that the best you could come up with ? Common bro I know you got a big head on your shoulders. Defend your disgusting theory.

BTW, I never said I was RELIGIOUS. I am not a perfect muslim but I am DEFINITLEY not a Munakrin-e-Hadiath

-Salman

There is no denying of the fact that Sunnah and sayings of the holy Prophet :saw: are of utmost importance in understanding the Holy Quran.

Conversely, in the light of the severity for commiting shirk, what are the punishments (if there are any) for those who associate the laws of a mortal (prophet tho he may be) with those of Allah? This question would be to those who believe that the Quran is complete and the only unaltered words of Allah.

I do agree with you that there are a lot of illiterate people in Pakistan who commit shirk on regular baiss. A common example would be people doing sajda infront of Hazarat Data Ganj Baksh Shakkar Mizaar.

Neverthless I do not believe that any Muslim in their right mind puts Prophet Mohammahd :saw: above Allah :swt: and definitley not the Hadiath above Quranic Ayat’s.

So I am not too sure which examples you are reffering here. If you could be a bit more specific that would help.

-Salman

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Conversely, in the light of the severity for commiting shirk, what are the punishments (if there are any) for those who associate the laws of a mortal (prophet tho he may be) with those of Allah? This question would be to those who believe that the Quran is complete and the only unaltered words of Allah.
[/QUOTE]

Allah says in the Quran that the Prophet (saw) does not utter anything from his mouth (regarding religion) except that what Allah reveals to him....
so i dont think Muhammad (saw) had any laws of his own....

Quran is complete....
the prophet (saw) was a practical example of following the Quran....
and by complete u dont expect a 10.000 page manual to be sent by God....
ofcours He sent down the basics and He sent down the prophets to show how to carry out the commands....

otherwise the sense u use for complete, why did we need prophets....
a book falling from the sky wud be good enuff (if it is complete)....

Salman NY: this is the umpteenth time you've come up with exactly the same 'proof' but in different wording. If you want to find my answer click profile on my post. You will find plenty of references in my religion forum posts.

^
and they wont be redundant????

what proofs do u use to reject hadith????

armughal: u might click on my profile as well.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Conversely, in the light of the severity for commiting shirk, what are the punishments (if there are any) for those who associate the laws of a mortal (prophet tho he may be) with those of Allah? This question would be to those who believe that the Quran is complete and the only unaltered words of Allah.
[/QUOTE]

As Armughal said the Sunnah is also from Allah and time and time again Allah says in the Qur'aan to obey Allah and the Messenger, I don't think there is any mention of just following the Qur'aan or some Peer Fakeer or some so called Imam in the Qur'aan.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NeSCio: *
armughal: u might click on my profile as well.
[/QUOTE]

Why don't you click on your own profile and just copy and paste, it would be much easier for you since its your own profile.

Half of the time in those debates, you have stopped posting when you were speechless or had no answer to questions like armughal ?

So i am not too sure which COMPLETE threads you want me to quote you from, because none of them are defended by you thoroughly.

-Salman

^Salman, you exactly pinpoint where the problem lies when debating with you ppl. The goal you people have is to make the other speechless -more often due to ur stupidity than logical high-standard reasoning-, whereas my personal aim for debate is to find out what the reasons are the other thinks differently than I do, and where and why this difference exists. Whenever I bring a real (or hypothetical) argument against your reasoning you take it as the biggest sin ever committed and start calling names and portraying the other as the devil himself. It would be helpful for the sake of discussion if you took the arguments I bring forward as a challenge and instead of resorting to pre-oedipoedic name-calling gave constructive step-by-step counter-arguments. The tactics you resort to can easily be copied by me: Every forthnight I could start a thread as well, with semi-melancholic brabble on how bad the state of Muslim Ummah is today, and how on earth ppl can do this, can do that...and finally portray you as the cause of this all due to your different thinking......

You will notice that in the threads where I've been so-called 'speechless' was not due to your convincing debating skills, but rather due to your lowering of the level of discussion below the point where I find it useful to continue.

^
praising our own self, r we????

maybe when we read ur posts we feel that u r bringing up a stupid discussion that has no reasoning but the twisting of the same old line "if Quran is complete then why do we need the hadith"....
have u ever had more than that in ur posts????

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Conversely, in the light of the severity for commiting shirk, what are the punishments (if there are any) for those who associate the laws of a mortal (prophet tho he may be) with those of Allah?
[/QUOTE]

"prophet tho he may be"?? Prophets do not make up laws themselves... their religious instruction is via revelation... they expound God's laws...