Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Extinct nahi hotay. We are very productive nation. Pakistan produces around 5.5 million new born babies a year or around 15000 babies a day.
I know...
bigger problem then drones :(
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
I know...
bigger problem then drones :(
Good thinking. :)
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Once population of East Pakistan was 20 percent more than West Pakistan ... now population of Pakistan is 20 percent more than BanglaDesh ... matlab yea kay, when they were 6 we were 5 ... now for every 15 in BD, we are 18.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
I was waiting for this comment to come out sooner or later.
Whenever a tangible step is taken by PTI, the comment to come out of N-leaguers always starts with "why not......"
Recycling a comment is the easiest thing to do...and that you will never run out of.
Did you miss the memo? PTI has already named those murdered in the drone strike. I dont remember exactly, but you can check Shireen Mazari's press conference from yesterday. I think 6 were murdered. 4 of them were Pakistanis, 2 were afghanis residing in Pakistan for about 30 years, with refugee cards....and 10+ kids injured, a few of them maimed for life.
Its about their gutless leaders cant do nothing and for years The Bandar Altaf Hussain has been sitting in UK making people like him fool for all his life !
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Karachi is getting a Rangers + police (+ intelligence..) operation so why can't North Waziristan? Imran is against army in FATA (i can see logic but FATA is next to unstable afghanistan right now) and he has never distinguished between Frontier Corps and Army, so I assume he wants both to be withdrawn while there is no police there. How do "tribals" defeat taliban when taliban have assassinated the elders and by arming different factions, we are sowing the seeds of the future taliban?
Silaaj, waleed and other niralas, can you stop being some buffoons be it from pakistan or from doodh dahi uk ghettoes and frankly answer that question!? I know people like you have wanted operation in karachi for ages, so now we have it, so what is good for the goose is good for the gander approach means that all of FATA should get a policing operation? Are you with me or would you stand to be hypocrites? :D
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
2013 back up to 643. Drone strikes continue, with even more prominent targets being hit.
2009 was the worst on record, and that follows the start of the heightened drone campaign in 2008. So, since the start of the campaign, attacks went drastically up, stayed high, went down in 2012 and then in 2013 we’re trending upward again. It could be that 2008-2010 was instigated by the campaign in the first place.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
And according to Stanford university, almost 25% of those killed have been civilians. And out of those civilians, about 25% have been kids.
25% civilians, but of those considered militants, nobody truly confirms. It could be a simple tribesman in a pickup, holding a pistol, etc. They use "duck" targeting.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Firstly, why bother to name and out the Americans when Pakistan's own democratically elected leadership and head of the one of top 10 armies in the world are too spineless to do anything about it? If drone targeted any place in Punjab there would be a different reaction.
Secondly, the REASON why suicide bombings became a "norm" in 2007 was nothing to do with drone strikes. It was the badly handled Lal Masjid saga which resulted in the unleashing of suicide bombers. There appears to be a lot of blame being pointed at the Americans for encouraging suicide bombers through the use of drones, it could be true but suicide bombing only became a part of routine life there because of the Military dictatorships botch up.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
I know how to parse stats. But what you have chosen is a convenient way to side step the issue. Terrorism exists across the country, and suicide bombing is not the only way to terrorize people. If you consider the shia killers in Baluchistan to be another breed, or if you consider the thousands of casualties in Karachi to be a side issue, or worse yet, you dont consider these problems to be a part of the bigger problem, then you are ignoring the facts. Taliban exist in heavy numbers in Karachi, no secret about it. Same with Baluchistan, and same with Punjab. Filtering out deaths based on where they took place just to give meek credit to americans for their drones is odd. Americans have been sitting in Afghanistan for 10+ years with all the firepower in the world, and they havent been able to crack the taliban there, but somehow they have been able to break it in Pakistan with cross border missiles? Quite funny.
Last year, suicide attacks were down because of extra security due to the impending elections. Drones cannot have an impact on such groups, because they dont operate as an organization…they operate as a militia. OBL has been dead for a while, and a non factor for a very long time. Mullah Umar hasnt been heard from in ages. Yet the fighting still goes on. Wonder why.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
2013 back up to 643. Drone strikes continue, with even more prominent targets being hit.
2009 was the worst on record, and that follows the start of the heightened drone campaign in 2008. So, since the start of the campaign, attacks went drastically up, stayed high, went down in 2012 and then in 2013 we're trending upward again. It could be that 2008-2010 was instigated by the campaign in the first place.
Most of the suicide bombings occurring in 2013 are mostly from the Punjabi Taliban based in Southern Punjab. Terrorism from TTP has gone down drastically due to drone strikes.
2010 was the heaviest drone strikes with 122 and that directly translated into a nearly 50% reduction of suicide bombing emanating from TTP.
Drones are not a permanent solution. Pakistani Ground forces need to be control of those areas but until they won't send troops there to secure those areas, the Drone strikes will continue.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
I know how to parse stats. But what you have chosen is a convenient way to side step the issue. Terrorism exists across the country, and suicide bombing is not the only way to terrorize people. If you consider the shia killers in Baluchistan to be another breed, or if you consider the thousands of casualties in Karachi to be a side issue, or worse yet, you dont consider these problems to be a part of the bigger problem, then you are ignoring the facts. Taliban exist in heavy numbers in Karachi, no secret about it. Same with Baluchistan, and same with Punjab. Filtering out deaths based on where they took place just to give meek credit to americans for their drones is odd. Americans have been sitting in Afghanistan for 10+ years with all the firepower in the world, and they havent been able to crack the taliban there, but somehow they have been able to break it in Pakistan with cross border missiles? Quite funny. Last year, suicide attacks were down because of extra security due to the impending elections. Drones cannot have an impact on such groups, because they dont operate as an organization...they operate as a militia. OBL has been dead for a while, and a non factor for a very long time. Mullah Umar hasnt been heard from in ages. Yet the fighting still goes on. Wonder why.
Shias being killed in Balochistan, or MQM in Karachi, are different issues than what we are discussing.
Pakistan does not face a single problem of TTP Terrorism from North Waziristan but almost every province and every area has something going on. Which is exactly why the states you cited are conflating multiple things.
My focus is on TTP and Drone Strikes. And thus far the attacks linked to these TTP animals have decreased dramatically.
MQM, Punjabi Taliban, Sunni Extremists in Balochistan, etc. are other menace that Pakistan has to deal with.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Most of the suicide bombings occurring in 2013 are mostly from the Punjabi Taliban based in Southern Punjab. Terrorism from TTP has gone down drastically due to drone strikes.
2010 was the heaviest drone strikes with 122 and that directly translated into a nearly 50% reduction of suicide bombing emanating from TTP.
Drones are not a permanent solution. Pakistani Ground forces need to be control of those areas but until they won't send troops there to secure those areas, the Drone strikes will continue.
I think your distinction between TTPs is rather convenient. The point was, other correlations can be drawn.
Agreed about Pakistan asserting itself over FATA. But this, if and only if they are willing to assert their sovereignty on ALL aspects of Pakistan's territorial integrity. That means: as soon as they send the ground troops in to the tribal areas, shoot those bloody drones down, even if it means attacking Afghan airbases.
But, I digress...I doubt the drone strikes are occuring without approval from the military, in spite of what the population thinks. There's far too little stink and far too much hush-hush from the brass, and other politicians (other than IK) for such a grave "violation" of territorial boundaries. Better to act the helpless fool.
As for drone strikes securing...we'll see. I doubt it.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
I think your distinction between TTPs is rather convenient. The point was, other correlations can be drawn.
Agreed about Pakistan asserting itself over FATA. But this, if and only if they are willing to assert their sovereignty on ALL aspects of Pakistan's territorial integrity. That means: as soon as they send the ground troops in to the tribal areas, shoot those bloody drones down, even if it means attacking Afghan airbases.
But, I digress...I doubt the drone strikes are occuring without approval from the military, in spite of what the population thinks. There's far too little stink and far too much hush-hush from the brass, and other politicians (other than IK) for such a grave "violation" of territorial boundaries. Better to act the helpless fool.
As for drone strikes securing...we'll see. I doubt it.
Drones will not be needed if Pakistan had ground troops in those areas and actually policed them. How can these drones be violating Pakistani sovereignty when Pakistan has Zero control over those areas?
And besides ISI is probably feeding the CIA intelligence on the location of these terrorists which the CIA takes out. Pakistan cannot be trusted with this technology as India will go up in arms and Pakistan will leak it to China or only target the TTP instead of Afghan Taliban and other Taliban terrorists.
Anyways, the job is being done. Everyday there are more drone strikes and everyday there are more dead terrorists. Even after 2014, USA will probably keep a permanent fleet of drones to take out terrorists in FATA.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Most of the suicide bombings occurring in 2013 are mostly from the Punjabi Taliban based in Southern Punjab. Terrorism from TTP has gone down drastically due to drone strikes.
2010 was the heaviest drone strikes with 122 and that directly translated into a nearly 50% reduction of suicide bombing emanating from TTP.
Drones are not a permanent solution. Pakistani Ground forces need to be control of those areas but until they won't send troops there to secure those areas, the Drone strikes will continue.
Lets not pull numbers out of thin air, do you have stats/link to show that?
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Drones will not be needed if Pakistan had ground troops in those areas and actually policed them. How can these drones be violating Pakistani sovereignty when Pakistan has Zero control over those areas?
Come now, I shouldn't have to explain the arrangement...it is a part of Pakistan.
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And besides ISI is probably feeding the CIA intelligence on the location of these terrorists which the CIA takes out.
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I can't help but agree. Why the brass doesn't want to dispense with duplicity is beyond me.
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Pakistan cannot be trusted with this technology as India will go up in arms and Pakistan will leak it to China or only target the TTP instead of Afghan Taliban and other Taliban terrorists.
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China already has it, but yes, it's doubtful America will transfer any meaningful know-how or tech.
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Anyways, the job is being done. Everyday there are more drone strikes and everyday there are more dead terrorists. Even after 2014, USA will probably keep a permanent fleet of drones to take out terrorists in FATA.
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This is where I disagree. I can just as well say that everyday there are more dead civilians. For those who think the drone strikes are a-okay as the terrorists are killing civilians...perhaps this is the delusion they need to emerse themselves in (i.e. only terrorists are being killed)...otherwise they face the stark reality: they don't mean what they say (i.e. terrorists are bad because they kill civilian). That infact, it's a petty ideological difference that really drives their opinion. That the feigned offense at killing of civilians is just a ruse to cover their true sentiment.
Which is why I argue it can't be any other way: protect ALL Pakistanis from ALL threats. Otherwise, you're just egging one *faction *on against another...that's not what Pakistan needs.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Why yes I do 
Suicide Bombing in Pakistan | PakistanBodyCount.org
Total killed by suicide bombings in Pakistan:
2007 - 842
2008 - 940
2009 - 1090
2010 - 1153
2011 - 625
2012 - 243
In 2010 - 1153 people killed in Suicide bombings. In 2011 - 625
Have a nice day
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
From your website, if you look in the tab Drone Attacks, you get this stat:
Killed in Drone Attacks (2004-2013)(Max figure):
AQ: 45
Taliban: 462
Civilian: 2512
Foreigners: 335
Its obvious that more civilians died than AQ+Taliban+Foreigners combined.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Most of the suicide bombings occurring in 2013 are mostly from the Punjabi Taliban based in Southern Punjab. Terrorism from TTP has gone down drastically due to drone strikes.
2010 was the heaviest drone strikes with 122 and that directly translated into a nearly 50% reduction of suicide bombing emanating from TTP.
Drones are not a permanent solution. Pakistani Ground forces need to be control of those areas but until they won't send troops there to secure those areas, the Drone strikes will continue.
In 2010 - 1153 people killed in Suicide bombings. In 2011 - 625
:D
Though a decent website, but the suicide bombings in 2010 were 58 while in 2011 it was 44, in 2012 it was 32, and in 2013 its 35 so far. so more like 25% decline for 2 years. It might seem like a progress to you, but to me Pakistan is shooting itself in the foot with every drone... a civilian casualty of **2512 **is a significant amount.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
This site is good in tabulating the number of terrorist attacks in Pakistan but its pretty bad in tabulating in terms who was killed in these drone strikes.
So what that means is it only categorizes known terrorist leaders such as Meshud or Al Qaeda chieftians as terrorists killed and all of their foot soldiers are categorized as civilians. So their civilian casualty count is meaningless.
This is a lot better site in terms of tabulating who has been killed in these drone strikes:
Drone Wars Pakistan: Analysis | The National Security Studies Program
Pakistan Strike Totals total strikes - 369
total killed - 2077 - 3424
civilians killed - 258 - 307
militants killed - 1620 - 2783
unknown killed - 199 - 334
From this site we know over 300 civilians have been killed.
Its tragic that they died but since Pakistan is unable and unwilling to take out these terrorists which threaten global security then USA has to. Its Pakistan’s own strategic and national failure as a country to police its own borders.
Re: PTI names CIA station chief for Hangu Drone Strike
Their civilian count is ridicilous. I actually contacted the site administrator and he informed me that any person who gets killed who is not an Al Qaeda or Taliban leader is classified as a civilian.
This site is a lot better in keeping tabs on who has been killed.
Drone Wars Pakistan: Analysis | The National Security Studies Program