Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
So we can handover the country to one who can play cricket and well practiced womanizer with some experience to collect charity . There is no party still .
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
If Project Management is the basis of evaluation then please tell me this, 1) Who Initiated and Fibre-Optics cable installation in Pakistan and when? 2) Who Started Motorway Projects in Pakistan? 3) Who started Deep Sea Port Project at Gawadar? 4) The Thunder Fighter Jet Project? 5) Al-Khalid Tank? Not to mention other projects, such as Cardiology center in Quetta by Punjab Govt, Student Endowment Fund, Danish School Systems and Ashiyana Housing Projects.... yes they have some short comings but that were not that big that there govt had to sent home by military general in 2 years time. Secondly, for MMA govt, and JI, who can forget Naimat ullah Khan's role in Karachi, he was the guy because of which MQM was forced to raise the bar... something you may have missed completely... I am not aware much of the achievements of MMA in KPK but then, people rejected them didn't they!!!
Let me clarify my position here first, I do not argue just to malign one party and praise the other. All I care is a developed and prosperous Pakistan where people live with a sense of security and I do not care through which party this goal is achieved! At the moment people are clearly pinning their hopes with PTI.
As for the projects you have listed above:
Motorway = Full credit to NS govt of 90-92, that is the only project which he can proudly present to his voters and people did reward him in 97 for that.
Regarding strategic & defense projects, be it JF-17, Khalid Tank, Gawadar Port, Nuclear program and so on, you and me fully know who initiates these projects and who makes sure these continue no matter which party sits in govt!
Regarding one hospital here, few schools or scholarship programs there, let me tell you the most hated Musharraf govt. has done more on education front (PhD programs, IT development and so on), than any other previous govt. So is it something that you call a major achievement?
My understanding for major achievements of a govt include:
- Major infrastructure development (Railways, Roads, air, sea etc)
- Major educational policy change on war footing to ensure every child is educated and highest standard educational institutions for R & D at university level are created in every mid-size city of Pakistan
- Strict "implementation" of anti-corruption laws and postings on strict merit basis
- Cut down own expenditures and ensure enough funds are pumped in health sector (Major hospitals in all cities e.g.)
- Development of agriculture sector with the most modern technology on war footing
- Major energy projects to meet demands in the coming 50+ years (conventional: Coal, Fuel etc. Alternate energy: Wind, Solar etc.)
- Development of corruption free and very effective civil law enforcement appratus (Police, Judiciary etc.)
- ... and so on
And I do not think apart from Motorway NS has achieved any of the above stated.
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
So we can handover the country to one who can play cricket and well practiced womanizer with some experience to collect charity . There is no party still .
And Bhutto was a saint and was not a drinker?
BB was a saint and not party-going? Did never drink? Never said "one kiss per vote" in Oxford university?
Billawal Bhutto is a saint and not a drinker? Does not go to mixed parties or have affairs with females (womanizer?)?
If you want to talk about morals, at least make sure that your own leaders whom you worship were saints.
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
Yar this is cheating!
First you call them tried and tested and failed.. when i say don't get enough time, you ( by you i mean the counter argument) say that first few days/months/years are enough to define the path, when i name the projects then you say that is good and appreciated but that is 12 years old.. we were talking on tried and tested thing.. aren't we???
You can call that whatever you want. I dont want to repeat myself again and again. The previous election (2008) in which Shahbaz Sharif came to power, I voted PMLN (Umar Sohail Zia Butt for NA and their provincial canditate), and I guess it would be have to do with some of their previous policies!
[QUOTE]
Now coming to Balochistan and terrorism related... It is not only Balochistan, it is Karachi, it is Lahore, it is whole Pakistan which is suffering from terrorism in one way or other... and the interestingly in all this mess, our Intelligence agencies have their fair share, had they not supported MQM back in 80s, we might not have monster killing people for enjoyment... had agencies ot got implanted and manufactured anti-Shia movement (Sipha-e-Sahaba) to break the power of Shia Land lords and Makhdooms in Southern Belt... we might not had any sectarian extremism at hand...
please let me tell you it was govt of SS in late 90s which curbed the religious terrorism and arrested/killed many terrorist like Riaz Basr and Malik ( later was released by the current govt lately)...
[/QUOTE]
So what have they done against the terrorists during this government? What would be their policies against the war on terror? What would be their policy against drone attacks?
[QUOTE]
On Karachi, When people were dying in Karachi the brave leader of revolution was in hiding... at that time, SS was in Karachi, ofcourse he had no power there but he can be with the people when they want moral support.. and for Balochistan, NS have repeatedly said, the killers of Akbar Bugti have to tried in the court... and just for your info the killers happened to in London and last i knew, Punjab Govt have got authority there..
[/QUOTE]
All power to the people, if they vote PMLN. If PMLN can bring a change in the lives of people why would people not support them?
Re: PTI: “Good looking Jamaat e Islami”?
Yep, pretty much a reflection of Jamaat-e-Islami.
Re: PTI: “Good looking Jamaat e Islami”?
^^ 
:k:
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
I already mentioned in my some previous post that almost the SHURKAE jalsa of IK are belong to JI or some Jehadies groups ITS easy to get them out from houses to show up with their flags they belong from, and after that Groups gathering there might might be few teen agers who dont have any mind to think about but need a CHANGE gathered their:D:
he need more 15 years PERIOD
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
You can call that whatever you want. I dont want to repeat myself again and again. The previous election (2008) in which Shahbaz Sharif came to power, I voted PMLN (Umar Sohail Zia Butt for NA and their provincial canditate), and I guess it would be have to do with some of their previous policies!
who is asking to repeat yourself again and again, just shown one of the character and how you change stance everytime, i can bet that, you would be saying all this again...like you said in some previous thread... i
So what have they done against the terrorists during this government? What would be their policies against the war on terror? What would be their policy against drone attacks?
Maybe they have something, may be something better than just having a dharna and then issuing a warning that if drones are not stopped in months time, there will be a country long enormous kind of Jalsa....and then the month never got ended...if you find out let me know number of days IK have in a month...
On drones policy of PML-N is obvious one, and that is, the resolution of the parliament have to respected and implemented, but they do not have power in the center to get it implemented...
All power to the people, if they vote PMLN. If PMLN can bring a change in the lives of people why would people not support them?
Yes all power to people and no power and praises to establishment... people have not entirely rejected PML-N.had they rejected them, they had a fate of MMA and PML-Q.. but yes, if got elected and did not performed up the standards... then certainly their fate won't be different...
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
Let me clarify my position here first, I do not argue just to malign one party and praise the other. All I care is a developed and prosperous Pakistan where people live with a sense of security and I do not care through which party this goal is achieved! At the moment people are clearly pinning their hopes with PTI.
and let me tell you something, your intention might not be the same but you are acutally doing the same...you said that these parties are tried and tested to which i asked you simple question, you asked about the projects to which i gave you.... and as i said, only when a party completes in tenure then it can be judged or called tried and tested... if not then, anyone saying that they are tried and tested is utterly lying...
BTW, The Missle Program of Pakistan,which make all Pakistani proud was initiated by Benazir BHutto.... Just for your info.. and i am telling you all this that not all parties are to hated and not all to be loved, credit should be given where due...
As for the projects you have listed above:
Motorway = Full credit to NS govt of 90-92, that is the only project which he can proudly present to his voters and people did reward him in 97 for that.
Regarding strategic & defense projects, be it JF-17, Khalid Tank, Gawadar Port, Nuclear program and so on, you and me fully know who initiates these projects and who makes sure these continue no matter which party sits in govt!
Now this is utter non-sense, if These projects were not initiated by the civil govt then by whom?the military establishment? who in their respective eras did nothing about the defense development program? tell me what we achieved in Ayoubs Time,What was the achievement in Zia's time and what did we got from Mushy era??? can you name any defense program... yes i can name corruption program and can quote lives of Gohar Ayoub and Ijaz Ul Haq and Now mushy as a living prove that these military leaders did nothing but corruption..
How easy it is for you malign all the civil govts and why because it has been feeded in the mind of masses that political personalities are nothing but corrupt and but then realities on ground tell us something totally opposite..
Regarding one hospital here, few schools or scholarship programs there, let me tell you the most hated Musharraf govt. has done more on education front (PhD programs, IT development and so on), than any other previous govt. So is it something that you call a major achievement?
May i know if i am talking to a person who knows the limitation of provincial govt or if he is here just to argue for the sake of argument...this is very important to answer your post above...
My understanding for major achievements of a govt include: - Major infrastructure development (Railways, Roads, air, sea etc) - Major educational policy change on war footing to ensure every child is educated and highest standard educational institutions for R & D at university level are created in every mid-size city of Pakistan - Strict "implementation" of anti-corruption laws and postings on strict merit basis - Cut down own expenditures and ensure enough funds are pumped in health sector (Major hospitals in all cities e.g.) - Development of agriculture sector with the most modern technology on war footing - Major energy projects to meet demands in the coming 50+ years (conventional: Coal, Fuel etc. Alternate energy: Wind, Solar etc.) - Development of corruption free and very effective civil law enforcement appratus (Police, Judiciary etc.) - ... and so on
And I do not think apart from Motorway NS has achieved any of the above stated.
Just for your info, even Motorway Project took several years to complete.. the time 2 years each time given was simply not enough for any govt in the world to implement its educational policy... but i think i am arguing with a person who think who ever is brought or supported by military is the right ruler...if that is the case then i can't argue, as being rulers of Pakistan for about 30+ years, this is the Pakistan they gave us...
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
I already mentioned in my some previous post that almost the SHURKAE jalsa of IK are belong to JI or some Jehadies groups ITS easy to get them out from houses to show up with their flags they belong from, and after that Groups gathering there might might be few teen agers who dont have any mind to think about but need a CHANGE gathered their:D:
he need more 15 years PERIOD
These SHURKAE Jalsa are very pissed on IK for his remarks regarding Kashmir and India.. per hukm tu man'na hi paRay ga na..... Like i mentioned in one of my posts that, PTI is some kind of cross between MQM and JI.... this time the director and producer have tried a totally new breed...
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
but i think i am arguing with a person who think who ever is brought or supported by military is the right ruler...if that is the case then i can't argue, as being rulers of Pakistan for about 30+ years, this is the Pakistan they gave us...
Before we argue about other points, just to be sure I understand you correctly, do you want to say NS was not supported and brought by the same military (read establishment) you and NS supporters are criticizing today?
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
Lets put it this way:
*PPP = Tried & tested PML (N + Q) = Tried & tested JI = Tried & tested MQM = Tried & tested PTI = yet to be tested * So I would certainly go for an option that is new rather than going for the ones who had their chances and failed miserably. Change is a long process and it is not gonna happen overnight, but at least we can kick-start it.
Even though I have somewhat soft corner for Shabaz Sharif, I would still vote this time for change and vote for PTI.
And no, I am not paid by agencies. In fact I think by taking this stance, PML-N is seriously offending those voters who are still in two minds about whether to chose PML-N or PTI.
Keep saying that and you would lose the rest of little sympathy of your former voters that you might otherwise have.
What about ANP?
What about PPP Shaheed Bhutto group?
etc.
There are other options.
Why support a party whose record is so dubious about the worst nightmare for Pakistan's security (religious extremism)?
Oh, and how is JI tried and tested? When was it in government?
Is Sipahe Sahaba tried and tested? Why not vote for it?
Point is that this criterion of SOME parties being "tried and tested" is not good.
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
I really dont care who wins the next elections, if after all this still the public wants to give ppp and pmln a chance in the elections I will appreciate that. If pmln works hard for the country and the public and not only to serve their interests then my vote would be with them. Keeping in view shahbaz sharif's current mediocre performance I don't have any expectations for miracles though.
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
This:
What about ANP?
and this:
Oh, and how is JI tried and tested? When was it in government?
are hilarious, go figure! LOL.
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
Before we argue about other points, just to be sure I understand you correctly, do you want to say NS was not supported and brought by the same military (read establishment) you and NS supporters are criticizing today?
There was time in Pakistan when the public use to think ( they still think) that the army is the only savior we have got, that thought/idea or whatever you call it was implanted in the minds of the people and with this in mind... Military interference in the political affairs use to be seen as norm... but now when the awareness is spreading out, the role of establishment in making/selection govt has been not liked any more... Now answering your question about NS... i am not sure if NS was brought by the Military Establishment, he might have support by them but what i am sure is, that he was sent home and out of country twice by the Army Generals... once by KakaR Formula and 2ndly by Mushy Formula, now i don't know which formula you are fond of...
as per today, NS is the only anti-establishment force in the country, who do not support killing Bugti and who want to try Musharaf under treason charges... and this brings me in control of the govt... unlike some other manufactured leadership which have record of qalabaziyaaN and with every qalabazi, regression of having but with willingness of doing it again...
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
I really dont care who wins the next elections, if after all this still the public wants to give ppp and pmln a chance in the elections I will appreciate that. If pmln works hard for the country and the public and not only to serve their interests then my vote would be with them. Keeping in view shahbaz sharif's current mediocre performance I don't have any expectations for miracles though.
Political parties name any, won't work until people like you and I force them to work. That is why i started the thread First thing First, and once the list of 5 major things is completed, i am going to paste it in the facebooks of almost all the leaders.. to let them know what we need from them and failure of that can cause end to their career...
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
What about ANP? What about PPP Shaheed Bhutto group? etc. There are other options.
Why support a party whose record is so dubious about the worst nightmare for Pakistan's security (religious extremism)?
Oh, and how is JI tried and tested? When was it in government? Is Sipahe Sahaba tried and tested? Why not vote for it?
Point is that this criterion of SOME parties being "tried and tested" is not good.
Apart from PTI or Establishment backed parties there is no alternate....naming any will be considered joke and/or blasphemy
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
Now answering your question about NS... i am not sure if NS was brought by the Military Establishment, he might have support by them .
So you are not sure that NS was brought by the military establishment, but you are sure that Imran Khan is being brought to power by this military establishment!
Now thats convenient! :)
And the huge support Imran Khan enjoys among masses is also fake, right Hannibal jee? ;)
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
So you are not sure that NS was brought by the military establishment, but you are sure that Imran Khan is being brought to power by this military establishment!
Now thats convenient! :)
And the huge support Imran Khan enjoys among masses is also fake, right Hannibal jee? ;)
Yes i am sure about IK, because not very long ago i was with him... but i never was with NS... so i don't know if he was brought into power by Military but i surely know that he has been thrown out of power by the military, why because military under no circumstances can afford anyone more popular than themselves....and about the popularity of IK... it will not take you very long to find out the secrets about it...which are BTW not secrets...but people choose to not to look at them.. have you ever red Haroon Rasheed the mentor and spokes person of PTI and MIlitary establishment???
Re: PTI: "Good looking Jamaat e Islami"?
Yes i am sure about IK, because not very long ago i was with him... but i never was with NS... so i don't know if he was brought into power by Military but i surely know that he has been thrown out of power by the military, why because military under no circumstances can afford anyone more popular than themselves....and about the popularity of IK... it will not take you very long to find out the secrets about it...which are BTW not secrets...but people choose to not to look at them.. have you ever red Haroon Rasheed the mentor and spokes person of PTI and MIlitary establishment???
hmmm very selective memories you have, no? Let me refresh few of those...
how many times has NS been CM of Punjab and completed his tenure during Zia era? Any idea?
Who made IJI?
Who was practically begging the establishment to topple BBs Govt? Twice?
There are several thousand former NS supporters who can testify on the same lines "not long ago I was with NS but I was never with PTI ..."
The point is, establishment is a reality and in fact, its support could also be used positively. If there is a will to work for your country, and you are not corrupt yourself, you can achieve miracles with or without establishment support.I can not think of one single developed country where establishment is not present in one form or other. Can you imagine a president of USA being elected without support of a "certain lobby"? or a prime minister of UK, or Chancellor of Germany for that matter? The answer is a big "NO".
In fact no one on the streets of Pakistan give a tiny rats a$$ about whether you enjoy establishment support or not as long as you are sincere, give peope hope and address their basic problems.