[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
...They have always maintained that you could be among them meaning that you can attain this status being in the ummah of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him).
I don't understand the point you are trying to make!
[/QUOTE]
Please explain how do you attain status of a "martyr", or get a company of martyrs in this world.
Ok! so you can’t be righteous/siddique/martyr/prophet while you are living in this world. But you get this status after you die. So true!
What about Hadhrat Abu Bakar Siddique 
. He was a siddique or wasn’t he while he was living? And in last 1400 years, you can’t find one martyr, one siddique or one righteous within the ummat of muhammad :saw:? As this status would only be granted after you die, as you said.
By the way, just to deny the continuation of prophethood which is so profoundly stated in this verse, you are denying the continuation of rest of the three gifts from Allah too (ie siddique, martyr and righteous).
And if you cannot be blessed with these gifts while you are alive, what good this deen-e-Islam is for.
Mr. Changez_like,
Who is saying that this verse is talking about being physicaly in the company in this world.
Please read a previous post of PagalInsaan in which he has clearly explain the four means of "ma'a". The fourth one is that of 'position' or in urdy 'rutbah'.
And Why can't a martyr join other martyrs in 'Rutbah'.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *
Ok! so you can't be righteous/siddique/martyr/prophet while you are living in this world. But you get this status after you die. So true!
....
[/QUOTE]
Clearly Allah swt has stated different states of believers in this verse, there must be different conditions associated with them too, there must be common conditions as well. Read the verse in the context of judgement day, it would clear your confusion unless your mind is already made up(as is the case most of the time).
A common believer (not very righteous) whose balance barely shows positive on judgement day, can you call him "Righteous"? "Siddiq"? There are categories of believers but that will be judged on judgement day by Allah swt as to who belongs to which category. If you do best, you could be judged as Righteous, but if you collected goods and bads both you may fall in other category. Therefore, this verse says, that if you follow Allah swt and Prophet Mohammed PBUH you will be in company of the righteous, siddiq, martyrs and Prophets. But if you do more than that as described by many other verses of Quran (the virtues of rigtheous) then you will be a righteous.
First of all, what more do you need to do after following Allah and Huzur :saw:. Isn’t that enough? And following doesn’t mean only following by words. It means complete submission to the path layed down before us by Huzur :saw:
And now you are confusing me even more. You said “But if you do more than that as described by many other verses of Quran (the virtues of rigtheous) then you will be a righteous.” So according to you, being righteous is the greatest state that man can ever achieve?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *...
And now you are confusing me even more. You said "But if you do more than that as described by many other verses of Quran (the virtues of rigtheous) then you will be a righteous." So according to you, being righteous is the greatest state that man can ever achieve?
[/QUOTE]
Human being are susceptible to devil, the more you avoid bad deeds a better and righteous person you become, simple, isn't it? You can follow Allah swt and Prophet PBUH but still commit sins, no? There are thousands of deeds that you can do to be more pious than "required".
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Human being are susceptible to devil, the more you avoid bad deeds a better and righteous person you become, simple, isn't it? You can follow Allah swt and Prophet PBUH but still commit sins, no? There are thousands of deeds that you can do to be more pious than "required".
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. So wouldn't 'more' pious person be given a 'better' reward from Allah of his good deeds (Righteous being the lowest and prophet being the highest)?
All the four statuses mentioned in that verse are the rewards of Allah which Allah gives to His pious people (ie prophethood, Siddique, Martyre, and Righteous) in this world and hereafter.
**Following is a detailed commentary on meaning of Ma'a in following verses of holy Quran:
4: 70. And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed HIS blessings - the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And an excellent company are they.
4: 71. This grace is from Allah, and Allah suffices as One Who is All-Knowing.
I hope this would remove any of the misunderstandings in the meaning of this verse of Holy Quran.
**
Reference is made in the following verses of the Holy Quran Surah Al-Nisa, chapter 4, verses 70-71:
*“Wa Maeen Yoote Allaha… Wa Kafa Billahe Aleema - **And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger shall be *among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings –the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs and the Righteous, and excellent company are they. This grace is from Allah and Allah suffices as One Who is All-knowing.”
What a grand proclamation. It unfolds the unique and lofty station of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). These verses say that from now on, only those who will ‘obey Allah and this Messenger’ shall be the recipie nts of the spiritual rewards of the highest order i.e. prophethood, truthfulness, martyrdom and righteousness.
Here the word used in not just ‘Rasool’ (messenger) but ‘Al-Rasool’ (this messenger) pointedly referring to the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him)
Allah says: “Fa Olaaeka Ma’allazena Un Amallaho Alehim - it is they who shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings.“
Here, our opponents argue that the practice “Ma’s”means ‘with’ and not ** ‘among’ ** as we translate it. Meaning ‘it is they who shall be with those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings.“
Anyone with common sense would know that their argument is absurd. An August Divine Decree has been announced conferring spiritual ranks of the highest degree on those obeying Allah and the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). But our opponents would have you believe that your reward for obeying Allah and His prophet would be that you would only be placed amongst people who have achieved these lofty spiritual ranks.
In the past, Divine promises were made to people to be endowed with His favors, if they obeyed Allah and Prophet Moses (peace be on him), Allah and Prophet Abraham (peace be on him), Allah and Prophet Noah (peace be on him), Allah and Prophet David (peace be on him) and Allah and Prophet Solomon (peace be on him). Today, a Divine Decree is announced enticing believers to follow Allah and this Messenger holding the loftiest spiritual rank so they may become recipients
of the rewards promised. Yet, our opponents say that it does not mean that you would be the recipients of the rewards, rather you would be placed with the recipients of the rewards. This is
utterly absurd. It is insulting to the lofty station of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) and the Holy Quran.
The Holy Quran belies their translation of the particle “Ma’s”. At another place, we read ** ‘Wata Waffana Ma’al Abrar - in death join us with the righteous. (Al Imran Ch. 3, v. 194)** . Here the same particle “Ma’s” has been used, not “Min”. The particle “Min” means from among, while the particle “Ma’s” means ‘with’ and ‘from among’, depending on how it is used. The Muslims have been enjoined to implore Allah the Almighty saying: “Cause us to die with the righteous.”
Obviously, this does not mean that we should pray to die as and when a righteous one dies. This is height of absurdity.
The fact remains that in the above example, Ch. 4, verses 70-71, “Ma’s” cannot mean anything but “Min” - from among. In Arabic, when referring to more than one person and expressing admiration “Ma’s” would invariably mean “Min” - from among. But should the species change, it would not be so. As Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2, verse 154: “lnnallaha Ma’a Us Saabereen -Surely Allah is with those who patiently persevere.: Here the species has changed, hence the
particle “Ma’s” cannot be used in the sense of “Min” –from among.
An example of species change would be “donkey is with the people” instead of “donkey is among the people”. Similarly, “Zaid is with good people” would mean “Zaid is among good people”.
When the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) said “I am with him who loves me” in these instances “Ma’s” would carry the sense of “Min” . The Holy Quran clarifies this issue further. If you refer to the verse under discussion Chapter 4, verse 70: “Among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings” it further reads “Minnun Nabbiyeena - among the prophets”. That is to say those receiving His blessings would be “among the prophets.....“. The particle “Ma’s”
has not been repeated. “Min” has been used to elucidate the meaning and to eliminate any possibility of misinterpretation.
** There is another verse of the Holy Quran in Surah Al-Hajj, chapter 22, verse 76, which reads ‘Allaho Yustafi Minnal Malaikate.....Allah chooses His Messengers from among angels and from among men. Surely, Allah is All- Hearing, All-Seeing.“** According to our opponents, this verse was revealed after it has been pronounced that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) as ‘Khatamun Nabbiyeen’ and no prophets were to come. Yet, the verse says “Allah chooses His Messengers from among angels and from among men” instead of saying “Allah used to choose His Messengers.....“. This would clearly mean that prophethood has not been terminated. Proof to support our argument is seen in the Holy Quran where Allah says with regards to Jesus and his mother “Kana Ya Kolanetaam.....” they both used to eat food.” (Al-Maidah chapter 5, verse 76).
It is a fundamental rule of grammar that ‘present continuous’ cannot be used for an action that has come to an end. The Quran proves this here. So, in case Allah had totally stopped sending Messengers from among men, He would have said so in the words “Kanallaho Yustafi… Allah
used to choose Messengers....“.
At another place in the Holy Quran reference is made to a covenant. In Surah Al-Imran chapter 3, verse 82 we read: ‘Wa Iz Akazallaho… Minasshahedeen - and remember the time when Allah took
a covenant from the people through the Prophets, saying: ‘Whatever I give you of the Book and Wisdom and then there comes to you a Messenger, fulfilling that which is with you, you shall
believe in him and help him’. And He said: ‘Do you agree, and do you accept the responsibility that I lay upon you in this matter?’ They said: ‘We agree; He said: ‘Then bear witness, and I am with
you among the witnesses.“‘ The verse speaks of a covenant Allah had taken from the People of the Book through their Prophets. The covenant bound them to believe in all the messengers coming to fulfill all that had
been given to them of His Word and Wisdom and to help them in their mission. The verse also lays down that the people had solemnly agreed to abide by the covenant. Then he said to the people to bear witness to this covenant and that He too would bear witness along with them.
In Surah Al-Ahzab chapter 33, verses 8 and 9, we read: “Wa Iz Akazna… Azabun Aleema.” And remember when We took from the Prophets their covenant, and from thee; and from Noah, and
Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus, son of Mary, and We indeed took from them a solemn covenant; that He may question the truthful about their truthfulness. And for the disbelievers He has prepared
a painful punishment.“
Here is another verse dealing with the covenant Allah had taken from the Prophets and, through them, from their peoples. The gist of the covenant was if future prophets come supporting what is contained in the Book and the Wisdom bestowed on them then the people should not oppose him but support him and assist him and believe in him. The Prophets are being placed under obligation to enjoin their people not to reject a claimant to prophethood in the future who meets these criteria.
What a remarkable covenant. Having said this, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) is addressed directly in this verse: “And remember when we took from the prophets their covenant, and from thee…“. That is to say the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was pointedly charged with the responsibility to place his Ummah under obligation to believe in the Prophet appearing
after him with the condition that this prophet would support the Book and Wisdom previously bestowed on the people and would devote himself to the service of the Faith. This covenant was taken from the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) even when the Teaching and prophethood had achieved perfection.
A claimant to prophethood who works in the service of the Faith must be fully supported by the people. The covenant is addressed to the prophets since they are the leaders of the people. The prophets themselves would never oppose the truth.
About the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him), the Holy Quran says so great was his submission to the Will of Allah that if there were ever to be a real son of God, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) would be the first to accept him. He loved God and would submit readily to any commandments from Him. In the presence of all these verses from the Holy Quran, our opponents still oppose the truth.
Changez_like,
Bhai I wrote a similar article for you as zakiahmed has posted above. The only difference was that I directed it towards you and made it more comprehendable.
It explains pretty much as to why we should translate Ma' to mean among. You insist that the verse is about the day of judgment. There is no such mention in this verse or the verses before or after it. You have not referred to any renouned commentary on the Koran which could support your point.
Here is a little problem associated to this belief:
ooO A Problem Ooo
Let me now point out a little problem with your opinion. If you translate the above verse to say that the followers of prophet Mohammad will only be in the company of Prophets and will never be able to be among them, then according to this translation, the verse will also imply that the followers of prophet Mohammad can not be ﻖﻳﺪﺻ , ﺪﻴﻬﺷ, or ﺢﻟﺎﺻ either, and can only be among them. Is this an acceptable meaning of the verse?