You guys are not gonna like it but miraj was a spirirtual journey. This is what quran and hadith says.
this is nothing but kufr...save your beliefs of kufr for your qadyani brotherns
no physical is not possible. It was a great kashaf. When non-believers asked Holy Prophet to go to heavens and bring them the holy book, the reply given by Holy Prophet PBUH in Quran is (not exact words )...that holy is my lord, but im nothing but a messenger. If He SAW was able to go physically anywhere before.. he would have done that to convince non-believers. Anyhow, whether it be physical or spiritual.. doesnt really matter to me.. each has their own interpretation for it. Allah knows best.
what a crazy garbage belief and twisting of ayaat. Why are you qadyanis hijacking this thread?
In the mind of a mu’min (true believer), a doubt concerning the possibility of a physical ascent to the heavens does not occur.
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This is really lame to get others on defensive from the outset as, if they try to disagree with the arguments then they are not mu'min.
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For a believer this is a fact which requires no logical reasoning.
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Again, if you try to rationalise, you are not a believer. Can we expect any rational discussion from this point onwards?
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What doubt can there be concerning Allah’s power to do as He wishes?
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I love this line. Every time someone wishes to push something inexplicable down our throats they come up with this. Let's just believe anything as Allah can do anything.
Not a good start teggy. If I get time I'll try to read the rest and if need be reply to it.
this is nothing but kufr...save your beliefs of kufr for your qadyani brotherns
what a crazy garbage belief and twisting of ayaat. Why are you qadyanis hijacking this thread?
bhai, how is it kuft if we believe the event to be of spiritual? u want to believe it as physical.. by all means do so.. let me know if that will make you a better Muslim than me who believe it to be a spiritual event.
Btw, how is it a 'crazy garbage belief'? just because its coming from an ahmadi? it is not twisting of ayaah my friend.. it is right there in Quran.
Its not qadiyani but ahmadi; if not ahmadi muslim.
This is really lame to get others on defensive from the outset as, if they try to disagree with the arguments then they are not mu'min.
Again, if you try to rationalise, you are not a believer. Can we expect any rational discussion from this point onwards?
I love this line. Every time someone wishes to push something inexplicable down our throats they come up with this. Let's just believe anything as Allah can do anything.
Not a good start teggy. If I get time I'll try to read the rest and if need be reply to it.
I'm not trying to convince you. :)
Feel free to nitpick though.
this is nothing but kufr...save your beliefs of kufr for your qadyani brotherns
what a crazy garbage belief and twisting of ayaat. Why are you qadyanis hijacking this thread?
Not just qadiyanis bro. Anyone who understands that a "Physical journey out into the Ether" is a PAGAN concept that comes to us from a slew of Greek Mythology, Avistan Mysticism and Christian Gnosticism would be able to appreciate the true Me'raj of the prophet: The Gift of bing able to speak out the Words of the Qur'an.
I remember my mum telling me about this while growing up. Let me get this straight, did the prophet physically go into the sky and go to heaven? or was it a spiritual journey.
If it was physical journey someone had to have seen it.
I remember my mum telling me about this while growing up. Let me get this straight, did the prophet physically go into the sky and go to heaven? or was it a spiritual journey.
If it was physical journey someone had to have seen it.
You will see a varying degree of "understandings" on this issue... that logic-defying "miracles" (such as the alleged "Me'raj") seem to appeal to those who are into superstition rather than reality, you will get nowhere with your inquiry.
Isra and Mi’raj Summary:
MIn Islamic tradition, the Isra and Mi’raj are the two parts of a journey that Muhammad took in one night, in 621 AD (1 BH). Many Muslims consider it a physical journey but some Islamic scholars consider it a dream. A brief sketch of the story is in verses 1 and 60 of one of the Qur’an chapters (#17: sura al isra), and other details were filled in from the supplemental writings, the hadith.
The Isra begins with Muhammad resting in the Kaaba in Mecca, when the archangel Gabriel comes to him, and brings him the winged steed Buraq, who carries Muhammad to the “farthest mosque”. The location of this mosque was not explicitly stated in the Qur’an, but is traditionally considered to be the Noble Sanctuary (Temple Mount) in Jerusalem. There, Muhammad alights, tethers Buraq, and leads other prophets in prayer. He then gets back on Buraq, and in the second part of the journey, the Mi’raj, is taken to the heavens, where he tours the circles of heaven, and speaks with the earlier prophets, and with Allah. Allah tells him to enjoin the Muslims to pray fifty times a day; however, Moses tells Muhammad that they would never do it, and urges Muhammad to go back several times and ask for a reduction, until finally it is reduced to five times a day.
After Muhammad returned to Earth and tells his story in Mecca, the unbelieving townspeople regard it as absurd. Some go to Muhammad’s companion Abu Bakr and tell him, “Look at what your companion is saying. He says he went to Jerusalem and came back in one night.” Abu Bakr in reply, tells them, “If he said that, then he is truthful. I believe him concerning the news of the heavens — that an angel descends to him from the heavens. How could I not believe he went to Jerusalem and came back in a short period of time — when these are on earth?” It was for this that Abu Bakr is said to have received his famous title “Us-Siddiq”, The Truthful.
If it was not physical why wud ppl rush to abu bakr? he was the biggest supporter of prophet at the time. and kafir thought for sure abubake wud know that Mohammad is crazy :naooz: but ABU BAKRS faith was absolute. he accept it before he heard abt it from Prophet. SubhanAllah
You will see a varying degree of "understandings" on this issue... that logic-defying "miracles" (such as the alleged "Me'raj") seem to appeal to those who are into superstition rather than reality, you will get nowhere with your inquiry.
Does that apply to other miracles as well? Such as splitting of the moon? logic-defying and suitable for a superstitious mind?
Again bro, what you talk of is what I consider blind faith. I don’t see a counter-argument in your post.
FYI, the traditionally accepted location (temple mount) is not called al-Masjid il-Aqsaa. The location of that mosque is different (located further away and below in the valley). Secondly, al-Masjid il-Aqsaa was constructed quite later, and that is why you would have resort to believing that it is the temple mount where the alleged prayers of all previous prophets and messengers took place.
However, do consider that that place you are alleging this to have happpened was actually a garbage dump in those days and was cleaned up by Khalifah Umar RA after the conquest of Jerusalem.
So my understanding stands that al-Masjid il-Haram and al-Masjid il-Aqsaa are figurative for one’s state of mind admidst the dark times of a prophet’s nation. Now please go back and read the first 4 verses of Surah Bani Israa-il and you might understand what I am trying to say. The mention of Moses being bestowed with The Book/Law/Code right after the mention of Israa from one place to another is not a mere coincidence.
Does that apply to other miracles as well? Such as splitting of the moon? logic-defying and suitable for a superstitious mind?
Yep... Aqribat is-Saa'ataun wan shaqq al-Qamar: Again figurative and used a warning to established norms. Similar to Iza as-Shamsu kuwwirat. Do consider that Byzantium and Pars used the Moon and the Sun on their flags as a symbol.
Yep... Aqribat is-Saa'ataun wan shaqq al-Qamar: Again figurative and used a warning to established norms. Similar to Iza as-Shamsu kuwwirat. Do consider that Byzantium and Pars used the Moon and the Sun on their flags as a symbol.
Splitting of the Moon was also a physical act. Witnessed by many. At this time it becomes a matter of faith, hypnotix.
Even in those days Prophet (SAW) did not like it when people asked for proof in the way of miracles.
54.001 * Iqtarabati alssaAAatu wainshaqqa alqamaru
* The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder. **
54.002 *Wain yaraw ayatan yuAAridoo wayaqooloo sihrun mustamirrun
**But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, "This is (but) transient magic." *
So matters of faith - are not to be questioned and not always refered to as symbolic or just plain magic.
There were witnesses to the splitting of the moon BTW. And those witnesses were not Muslim. So they rejected it calling it magic.
Coming back to the Isra wal maraaj. That was also a physical journey because if you deny the physicality of it and try to justify it according to what our little brains can comprehend then we are showing lack of faith and the transcendance of Allah.
WE cannot even comprehend the simple fact that he has existed for ever and will exist for forever. So Isra Wal maaraaj is not something that should be discussed under the microscope either. We as ordinary humans will never understand.
I respect your view on that, but i happen to disagree for a number of reasons. The least of which is the fact that historically it is recorded that splitting of the moon was a physical miracle because even the travelers who were bound towards Makkah, when questioned upon their arrival if they had witnessed anything unusual confirmed that yes they had seen the moon split and then re-attach. This proved false the allegations the pagans were levelling against the Prophet (pbuh) that he had cast witchcraft spell over them. But some among them who were wise responded by saying that witchcraft spell would only effect the attendees and not those who are not present, hence them approaching the travellers.
Also you may find the following helpful to my view on this (not a convincing source, but something to the effect):
PS: Sorry for going off-topic, PCG. However i feel the validity of one miracle as being physical reflects the realness of other miracles as being physical as well. At the end of it all, it boils down to faith and belief. And everyone has their own view.
Also, my education on the anatomy of these structures is fuzzy. I thought Masjid Al-Aqsa IS the mosque with the golden dome...so where is this teleportal in relationship to the mosque with the golden dome?
The actual physical structures should be clarified with the picture I posted above.
The main thing the zionists want is not the Dome of the Rock (The Golden Dome). They want to build their third temple where the Masjid Al-Aqsa (the other building) is.
Hence - the zionist movement actually wants the confusion to remain so that when they destroy the Masjid Al-Aqsa the muslim world will still see the golden dome and wont be in an uproar, and the third jewish temple will be built witout much trouble from the muslim world.
The Lote Tree is not an actual tree on Earth, but a mystical Islamicmetaphor concerning the uppermost boundary in knowledge a human being can possess concerning God. It comes from the Qu’ran chapter 53, An-Najm (The Star), verses 10-18 and alludes to Muhammad’s night journey from Mecca to Jerusalem and then through Heaven. “The Lote Tree of the furthest boundary,” as it is called, is believed to be the farthest anyone can travel in Heaven in their approach to God; beyond this none can pass. The following are the Quranic verses from which this term is derived (Qur’an53:10–18):
10 So did Allah convey the inspiration to His Servant (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.
11 The (Prophet’s) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
12 Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
13 For indeed he saw him at a second descent,
14 Near the Lote-tree beyond which none may pass:
15 Near it is the Garden of Abode.
16 Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!)
17 (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong!
18 For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest!
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw Sidrat al-Muntaha (a lote tree of the utmost boundary over the seventh heaven beyond which none can pass), by which he saw the Paradise of Abode, as it says in Saheeh al-Bukhaari (336) and Saheeh Muslim (237) who narrated the hadeeth of Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) which tells the story of the Isra’ (Prophet’s Night Journey). At the end of this hadeeth it says: “Jibraa’eel took me until we reached Sidrat al-Muntaha, which was covered with colours, I do not know what they are. Then I entered Paradise and saw that its domes were pearls and its soil was musk.”
if Lote tree is mentioned in quran i think it wud be in reference to MI’raaj bcz its in heaven.
also thre cursed tree mentioned in ayat 60(abv post) is also in hell. probably the tree of zaqqom from where pple of hell will feed( ALLAH KNOWS BEST)
Hadith 228. Narrated Ibn Abbas: Regarding the Statement of Allah: And We granted the vision (Ascension to the heavens) which We made you see (as an actual eye witness) was only made as a trial for the people. (17:60) Ibn Abbas added: The sights which Allah's Apostle (SAW) was shown on the Night Journey when he was taken to Bait-ul-Maqdis (ie. Jerusalem) were actual sights, (not dreams). And the Cursed Tree (mentioned) in the Quran is the tree of Zaqqum (itself).
thats what having Faith means. have you seen Allah? or may be you dont believe????
lol bro no need to get emotional.
I have not seen The God ( الله ) but logic dictates the existence of a Fundamental (Uncaused) Cause for all that came about. So I do not agree with your understanding about what I have said.
Splitting of the Moon was also a physical act. Witnessed by many. At this time it becomes a matter of faith, hypnotix.
Even in those days Prophet (SAW) did not like it when people asked for proof in the way of miracles.
54.001 * Iqtarabati alssaAAatu wainshaqqa alqamaru
* The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder. **
54.002 *Wain yaraw ayatan yuAAridoo wayaqooloo sihrun mustamirrun
**But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, "This is (but) transient magic." *
So matters of faith - are not to be questioned and not always refered to as symbolic or just plain magic.
There were witnesses to the splitting of the moon BTW. And those witnesses were not Muslim. So they rejected it calling it magic.
Coming back to the Isra wal maraaj. That was also a physical journey because if you deny the physicality of it and try to justify it according to what our little brains can comprehend then we are showing lack of faith and the transcendance of Allah.
WE cannot even comprehend the simple fact that he has existed for ever and will exist for forever. So Isra Wal maaraaj is not something that should be discussed under the microscope either. We as ordinary humans will never understand.
Ok bro so I don't want to start a "cockamamie road to nowhere" discussion on faith... to you it seems to mean that you heard it from childhood from your elders and then read about it in a book that says a whole group witnessed it, and convinced yourself that it must have been true. I am sorry but I do not go by this, even though I was brought up in a staunch Deobandi family.
