Re: Proof that Allah exists
really? I thought it is because your parents loved each other
Re: Proof that Allah exists
Raihan, your starting post ....all that it establishes is that there is God. It doesn't follow through Islam or Allah.
If you say, what's in a name...then it's fine. Hence "Eashwar Allah thaerey naam"...
Re: Proof that Allah exists
anjjan,
You haven't even attempted to refute my first post.
This topic has nothing to do with proof that Qur'an is the speech of Allah(swt) It was a side comment.
Do you agree that matter is limited and dependent? If you do then I'll go on to the next point.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
vineshvk,
So you agree with the first point.
The whole purpose of this topic was to prove that there is rational proof for the existence of the creator, there is no blind faith involved neither are there any theories involved.
Onto the next point.
- Anything limited and dependent cannot exist for eternity.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
Atlantis,
Brilliant. One person understood the purpose of this topic and didn't try to pigeon hole it into previously refuted arguments.
The purpose of the topic is to establish that there is a creator. I am a Muslim so why would I say Proof that 'whatever else' exists.
The only time I say that the Creator is Allah is Point 8 in the list which is the conclusion to the above points. Points 1 to 7 prove that a creator exists. Point 8 proves He is Allah(swt)
Re: Proof that Allah exists
The thread opener Raihan here is busy in a monologue. Where is the discussion?
Re: Proof that Allah exists
anjjan,
Usually when I discuss with athiests they keep on reminding me that the burden of proof is on me. This is the first case where I have to remind someone that the burden of proof is on me.
The way I have presented this argument is to state points which I can expand on to prove it.
You haven't even attempted to address the points on which my argument is based.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
Raihan
There is nothing important in your monologue (copied from some other sources). Religion has misled you. The last point is enough to understand your terms and conditions.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
anjjan,
Islam is an ideology not a religion.... Copied?....Is that your feeble excuse for not wanting to discuss? Well its not copied.
In your blind faith of whatever you believe in you agree (I'm assuming since you haven't bothered to tell me) with points 1 to 7 but have a problem with the conclusion?? An idol, a human being all of these are limited an dependent on something else to exist. Only Islam says that the Creator is unlimited and independent.
If you claim as you normally do to follow intellect and not base your life on a feeling or blind faith then surely you must have come to a conclusion based upon rational thought and be able to present an argument and not why you hate religion when this isn't even the topic of discussion.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
“Only Islam says that the Creator is unlimited and independent.”
that might be copied too…it says that in most religions. See once you get off this mine is better bullsiht it makes all religions equally palatable. But people just don’t learn. 
Re: Proof that Allah exists
If Allah is not dependent, why does he require humans to spend a good part of their life worshipping him? Does kneeling to him 5 times a day for every day that rolls over your head really make you a better person or is it just to please him?
Re: Proof that Allah exists
Praying is done for ourselves, not because God cant do without them. Sheesh. There are somethings Seminole, that humans shall never understand. :)
Re: Proof that Allah exists
^ why does he need constant attention my dear. Or are we trying to ask God to look at u.. more often than he is doing..
Re: Proof that Allah exists
Pinstripe Danda,
Which religion says that the Creator is unlimited and independent?
Either I live my life in a permanent state of doubt or I use my mind and senses to say Islam is the truth. If I say Islam is truth it doesn't mean I'm going to force you to become Muslim but it does mean that when secularism is forced down our throat that we will not accept it.
Why won't you accept that Muslims want to be ruled with Islam? Why is it that when Muslims in Iraq wanted to be ruled with Islam that rumsfeld said he could never accept that? Don't you see that what you are accusing us of is what you are implementing. It's not that you have double standards, you have no standards.
Anyway you people will like for Islam to be a religion then you could pigeon hole it into previous arguments against religion. Why don't you use your mind and produce arguments that DO apply to Islam so that we can have a real debate.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
Seminole,
The argument of limited and dependent is related to dependent on existence. Not dependent as you've put it. As the plant is dependent on water, nutrients and the sun.
Allah is free from all needs.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
Raihan,
You want everyone to be a party of your monologue, re your first post. In fact you are wrong, as you are confusing yourself with ‘what is beyond’. I have told you earlier that as much as you go deep in finding ‘what is beyond’ you will come out with zero level fantasy.
Have you read Gita, a lecture of Krishna at the battlefield of Mahabharata? Mahabharata was compiled in pre historical period.
Suddenly you have started politics in disguise of religion. Now what Muslims want…I doubt, because most of the times many of Muslim scholars ask us not to judge Islam by the acts of Muslims.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
anjjan,
In a normal discussion a person tells you which points he agrees and which point he disagrees on, I don't know which part you agree with and which part you don't. You haven't even attempted to disprove my argument and yet still you don't understand the purpose of this topic. Maybe Atlantis needs to have a word with you.
Politics is a part of Islam whether you like it or not.
OK fine you want to derail the topic because you have not been able to disprove the rational argument I presented for the existence of Allah.
Gita you say.
Pre historical period? Any proof? Gita is not revelation. Can you prove it is. Is this all of your argument?
Re: Proof that Allah exists
Raihan…
you want us to swallow your eighth point on behalf of first seven, re your first post You are busy in a monologue, as you still do not understand that I totally refute your preconceptions.
Next…….
It is explained much earlier in Gita.
Next….
What is Quran….it is very systematically compiled out of Judaism, Christianity and some contemporary Arab religions. Where you find revelation…only because the Prophet says so?
For your information Krishna’ lecture in Gita is itself a revelation.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
anjjan,
Denying is not the same as refutation. Maybe you need to learn english.
Your statement does not prove anything, present an argument that gita is revelation and not written by humans.
Also bring the evidence from gita that proves your claim.
Re: Proof that Allah exists
Raihan,…pick up Gita from any library, any translation, even a rough one will do,….Gita is easy to read, it does not depend on interpretations, you do not need to run for any scholar of Hindu religion…..just read it, study it (I do not ask to learn it)…. you will find the verse you need.
I have no readymade proof to show you that Gita is a revelation. Lord Krishna, the God himself revealed it to Arjuna at the battlefield of Kurukshetra. It has come to us totally intact right from prehistoric period…..I damn care if it was compiled by humans, or may be it is a fraud, but for that no one is going to threaten me of a death fatwa.
What proof you have of Quran, that it is a revelation? Nothing, except your blind belief. Quran depends on interpretations, which are often being changed and manipulated in every decade. And for these interpretations of Quran you have consumed your eighth point on behalf of the first seven re your 1 post. You prefer a monologue and a debate disturbs you.
(Ps, You are right, I need to learn English. And if you do not mind, you need to study the actual translation of Quran; you will find that you have been cheated.)