My statement that Hz. Fatimah (ra) was mistaken in her claim for Fadak brought the following reaction from Texan Dude
Understandably so, as Shias believe that along with the Prophet (saw), Hz Ali (ra) Hz Fatimah (ra), Hz. Hassaan (ra), Hz Hussein and the nine grandsons of Imam Hussein (ra) are infallible.
To prove this infallible (the Shias) quote part of the ayah 33:33 of the Quran
And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless. 33:33
And also narrate the hadith of Kisa.
Narrated Hazrat Aisha: One day the Prophet (saw) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak, then al-Hassan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Hussain Ibn Ali came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: “Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O’ People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33).” - Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim
As Muslims, we all believe in Tawheed (Absolute Unity of God), Prophet Hood, Prayers, Hajj etc. etc. These can be clearly pointed out in the Quran. Of course for further details we then refer to the Sunnah and the hadith.
The following ayahs clearly show that nothing that is fundamental for Belief has been left out.
*There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. **We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). ** Then unto their Lord they will be gathered. * 6:38
Say: *“Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail.” They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt. * 6:114
*One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims. * 16:89
All I want to know is if there is a clear-cut ayah that states infallibility of anybody apart from the Prophets (asa). This is matter of Belief (Aqeedah) and it should be clearly stated in Quran as such.
How can Shias prove from the **Quran ONLY ** the infallibility of Hz. Ali (ra) Hz. Fatimah (ra), Hz. Hassaan (ra), Hz Hussein and the nine grandsons of Imam Hussein (ra) are infallible?
Just to make it clear that Sunnis take the ‘Shia’ Imams (raa) to be people of knowlegde, worthy of respect, beacons of guidance and on the right Aqeedah of the Salaf - They were the teachers of Imams of Fiqh especially Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) and Imam Malik (ra).
We believe them to be on the aqeedah of Ahlul Sunnah.
Of course the Sunnis don’t believe in the twelveth Imam. There are very strong evidences that he was not even born.
Ahlul Sunnah believe that Imam Mahdi (ra) is yet to be born when Allah (saw) Wills; and he will be from the progeny of Imam Hassan (ra).
and yet they nauzubillah doubt their mother Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A to be mistaken nauzubillah.. just so they can defend someone who made Prophet P.B.U.H. angry… if nauzubillah such a personality could be mistaken why would Prophet P.B.U.H. give such a big hadith.. the fact it is a hadith it comes from Allah SWT… not to mention the quran
Say, I ask no reward from you for it except the love of my kinsfolk. And whosoever does a good deed we add unto it a greater good for him. Lo, Allah is Forgiving, Responsive. (42:23)
Had bibi been getting angry with people for wrong reason would such ayats be in the quran… nauzubillah isn’t the ayat of Quran enough for you to judge how rigteous she was…
How smart of you dude… you yourself quoted the ayat of Quran and hadith to justify it than ask the same question… boy you got some brains on you buddy… hmm now let me ask you a question buddy where in Quran does it say how to pray.. or how to perform hajj and other practices of islam… can you tell me what does Allah SWT mean by the following part of the quranic verse
… And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless [33:33]
and still if you doubt quran read the following verse … which tells you how pure, righteous and truthfull these personalities were
And whoever disputes with thee concerning him after the inspired knowledge which has been given unto thee, tell him, “Come, let us call our sons and your sons; our women and your women; and ourselves and yourselves; then let us pray and invoke Allah’s curse upon those who lie.” (3:61)
O you believe, obey Allah and obey His Messenger and those amongst you who are give supreme authority (by Allah). (4:59)
tell me who are the supreme authority who Allah SWT asks to obey besides Prophet… let me see what you just said
Ok now lets go and read the sunnah of Prophet P.B.U.H.
Someday (after his last pilgrimage) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Khum (Ghadir Khum) which is located between Mecca and Medina. Then he praised Allah and reminded Him, and then said: “O’ people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance… The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times).”
Sunni Reference:
Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1873, Tradition #36.
hmm lets see did he say any other hadith…
“For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla).”
Not to mention Prophet P.B.U.H. made people pay alligance after this hadith… the whole incident can be found in the following website with references. www.al-islam.org/ghadir
hmm still not convinced… there you go another hope this one would be easy to digest… “Verily, Ali and I are inseparable, and he is the master (wali) of every believer after me.”
******Sunni Refernces:
Al Tirmidhi, in his Sahih, ii, 297,
Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iv, 437, v, 356;
Abu Dawud al Tayalisi in his Musnad, iii, 111, xi, 360;
al Haythami, Majma al Zawaid, ix, 109, 127, 128, 199;
al Khatib al Baghdadi, Tarikh Baghdad, iv, 339;
al Muhibb al Tabari, al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 203, 171;
al Muttaqi al Hindi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 154, 155, 396, 401;
Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, v, 94;
Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya, vi, 294;
al Nasa’i, Khasais, 19, 23;
as well as Ibn Abi Shaybah, al Tabari, al Tabarani, al ?Daylami, Ibn Mardawayh, Ibn al Jawzi, al Rafii, and Ibn Hajar.
hmm want to read more hadith…
The Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said:
“May God’s mercy be upon Ali. My God, keep the Haqq (truth, righteousness, justice) always with Ali.”
Sunni Refernces:
Sahih Al Tirmidhi, ii, 298:
al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 119, 124;
al Khatib in Ta’rikh Baghdad, xiv, 321;
al Haythami in Majma` al Zawa’id, vii, 134, 235; 243;
al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, vi, 157.
“The parable of my Ahl Al?bayt is that of the boat of Noah, whoever gets aboard it is saved and whoever stays away from it is drowned.”
-Al Hakim in his Mustadrak, ii, 343, iii, 150:
-Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya’, iv, 306;
al Khatib in Ta’rikh Baghdad, xii, 19;
al Suyuti in al Durr al Manthur (al-Matba`at al Maymaniyyah, Egypt, 1314), under verse 2:58;
al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, i, 250, vi, 216;
al Haythami in Majma` al Zawa’id, ix, 167, 168;
al Muhibb al Tabari in Dhakha’ir al Uqba, 20; al Manawi in Kunuz al?Haqa’iq, 132.
Ok here is another ayat of Quran… None touches (the depth of meaning of Quran) save the purified ones. (56:79)
Hmmm like you said lets go and read in the light of hadith who knows these depth meanings whom quran refers as purified ones…
Al Nasa’i in Khasa’is, 40, reports this tradition on the authority of Abu Said al Khudri:
Abu Said al Khudri reports: "We sat waiting for the Messenger of Allah (pbuh&hp) when he came out to meet us. The strap of his sandal was broken and he tossed it to Ali. Then he (pbuh&hp) said: “A man amongst you will fight the people over the tawil (interpretation) of the Quran in the same way as I have fought over its tanzil (revelation).” Thereupon Abu Bakr said, ‘Is that I?’ The Prophet (pbuh&hp) said: “No.” Then Umar asked him, ‘Is that I?’ “No.” said the Prophet (pbuh&hp). “It is the mender of the sandal (i.e. Ali).”
Other Sunni References:
al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 122;
Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iii, 33, 82;
Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya’, i, 67;
Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iii, 282, iv, 33;
Ibn Hajar, al Isabah, i, 22, iv, 152;
Ibn Abd al Barr, al lsti`ab, ii, 423;
al Haythami, Majma al Zawa’id, v, 186;
al Muttaqi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 155, 390, 391.
Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow. And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious. (Quran 5:55-56)
It is unanimous that the verse descended about Imam Ali (AS) when he gave
away in charity his ring while he was in a state of kneeling in his prayer.
-Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ahmad Ibn Muhammad al-Tha’labi, under Verse 5:55
-Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v6, pp 186,288-289
-Tafsir Jamiul Hukam al-Quran, by Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Qurtubi, v6, p219
Tafsir al-Khazin, v2, p68
Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v2, pp 293-294
Tafsir al-Kashshaf, by al-Zamakhshari, Egypt 1373, v1, pp 505,649
Asbab al-Nuzool, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, Egypt 1382, v1, p73 on the
authority of Ibn Abbas
Asbab al-Nuzool, by al-Wahidi, on the authority of Ibn Abbas
Sharh al-Tjrid, by Allama Qushji
Ahkam al-Quran, al-Jassas, v2, pp 542-543
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p38
Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, p391, Tradition #5991
al-Awsat, by Tabarani, narrated from Ammar Yasir
Ibn Mardawayh, on the authority of Ibn Abbas
… and more.
hmm lets look at one more ayat… No one knows its interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly ground in knowledge. (3:7)
hmm like you said lets go and look in the light of hadiths… “I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate; whoever intends to enter the city should come to its gate.”
Sunni Refernces:
Al Hakim in his Mustadrak, iii, 126, 127:
al Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad, ii, 348, 377; vii, 172; xi, 48, 49;
al Muhibb al Tabari in al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 193;
al Muttaqi in Kanz al ummal, vi, 152, 156, 401;
Ibn Hajar in al Sawa’iq al Muhriqah, 73;
al Manawi in Kunuz al Haqaiq, 43 and Fayd al Qadir, iii, 46;
al Haythami, Majma al Zawa’id, ix, 114;
Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iv, 22 and Tahdhib al Tahdhib (Hyderabad, 1325), vi, 152;
as well as al Uqayli, Ibn Adi and al Tabarani.
here is another ayat of Quran…
Whoever opposes the Prophet after the guidance has been made manifest unto him and follows any path other than the path of the true believers, We will turn him towards that unto which he himself has turned, and We will expose him to Hell and a bad journey it will be. (4:115)
hmm like you said lets go and interpret in the light of sunnah… “Verily, Ali and I are inseparable, and he is the master (wali) of every believer after me.”
Sunni Refernces:
Al Tirmidhi, in his Sahih, ii, 297,
Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iv, 437, v, 356;
Abu Dawud al Tayalisi in his Musnad, iii, 111, xi, 360;
al Haythami, Majma al Zawaid, ix, 109, 127, 128, 199;
al Khatib al Baghdadi, Tarikh Baghdad, iv, 339;
al Muhibb al Tabari, al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 203, 171;
al Muttaqi al Hindi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 154, 155, 396, 401;
Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, v, 94;
Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya, vi, 294;
al Nasa’i, Khasais, 19, 23;
as well as Ibn Abi Shaybah, al Tabari, al Tabarani, al ?Daylami, Ibn Mardawayh, Ibn al Jawzi, al Rafii, and Ibn Hajar.
Hmm certainly Prophet called Hazrat Ali A.S the master of believers… who should fit the better context of the ayat besides master of believers after Prophet…
hmm our Imams were the source of knowedge and also the teachers of sunni Imams… and why shouldn’t be… read the following ayat of Quran and you have answered your question yourself (Subhan Allah)
None touches (the depth of meaning of Quran) save the purified ones. (56:79)
No one knows its interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly ground in knowledge. (3:7)
hmm based on the context of the above they sure are the righteous ones… and you yourself admits that they are the people of knowledge.. and still you go to there students to get islam… rather than the teacher itself.. amazing isn’t it… is it because they are shia Imams… now mind if I ask you a question…** Our Imams were the source of knowledge for your so called Imams… tell me who was the teacher of our Imam… makes you wonder doesn’t it… Please tell me… where does there source of knowledge comes from??? (QUESTION) thats why I said earlier we have 12 Imams and teaching of none contradicts the other… whereas you have four Imam’ls and there are some differences in their teachings.**
**hmm now thats funny our Imams have been source for knowledge for your Imams… but Imam Mahdi A.S … comes from aqeedah of Ahley sunnah… I wonder why… btw which school of thought of Ahley sunnah… Maliki, hanafi..??? ** Prophet said the following hadith…
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the twelve men, all of them from Quraysh.”
References:
Sahih Muslim (Arabic version)
Its amazing 11 of our Imams have been a good source of knowledge and some are also teachers of your imams but 12th imam comes from the aqeedah of ahley sunnah…
I’ll be waiting for your answer for my question in red… Please let me know if there are any errors in the references…