This ramadan I attended an iftar party and saying maghrib salaat time comes, host prepares place and invites someone for leading the prayer suddenly one of attendees in 1st row jumps and says I will lead. Anyway, prayer begins and he starts reciting soorah fatiha “… sirata-al-lajeena…”, “qul aaoju birabbin-naas”. Now I am surprised. I used to think that pronounciation of all letters in Quran is taught same around the world including India/Bengladesh where people say ‘jay’ in place of ‘zay’ in their own languages but say ‘zay’ for ‘zay’ in Quran.
Now I don’t know if that prayer behind that “imam” was good or not, or if I should repeat that prayer. Anyone familiar with the issue?
People volunteering them selves to lead the prayer, is such a dangerous trend, now a days. It is such a huge responsibility, as one becomes responsible for the Salat of everyone, whom he is leading
Having said that, I believe that in your case, you don’t have to repeat the prayer. If he recited at least one ayat with correct pronunciation, and he did not make the pronunciation mistake on purpose then his, including your salat is valid
I said that cause although Qiraat in a rakaat is firdh rukn, but reciting at least one aayah is fard, saying whole Surah Faatihah is waajib, and adding Sura after that is also wajib
In your case, Imam at least performed the firdh rukn. He might have violated the wajib part, though
I still believe that you should check with your local imam
Being a Qari, I always strive to pronounce the Arabic in the Quranic pronounciation, however, even in different parts of Arabia (then and now) people use different pronounciation. For instance, many bedouins pronounce Qaaf as Gaaf, so al-Haqq will be pronouned as al-Hagg. Same with people from the Sinai/Egypt: They pronounce Jeem in it's Aramaic form as Gimal. So they will pronounce al-Hajj as al-Hagg...
I am not of the opinion that mispronouncing a word will open the gates of hell upon you (or nullify your prayer). If you are mispronouncing any word when you understand that the meaning of Qul is say and Kul is eat and while you are capable of pronouncing Qaaf correctly and yet say Kul, then you're pretty open about your mischief. But this is a different ball game.
Sincere advice: Please do not consider prayers to be discounted because someone mispronounced something. If you thought he made a mistake, you should have corrected him. Isn't your duty to side with the Truth and endure what comes as a result as per surah 'asr?
The whole idea is to understand the message, and not just read/recite it; but again, I may be pecking the wrong tree here :(
doesnt sound like a mispronounciation as much as it does like a lisp, or accent. certain people dont have the equivalent sound in their language, therefore have trouble saying it. i dont think they should be excluded from leading the prayers on just that basis.
wasnt Hazrat Bilal a famous example of a person with a bad accent who still was the muezzin in the Prophet's mosque?
Being a Qari, I always strive to pronounce the Arabic in the Quranic pronounciation, however, even in different parts of Arabia (then and now) people use different pronounciation. For instance, many bedouins pronounce Qaaf as Gaaf, so al-Haqq will be pronouned as al-Hagg. Same with people from the Sinai/Egypt: They pronounce Jeem in it's Aramaic form as Gimal. So they will pronounce al-Hajj as al-Hagg...
I am not of the opinion that mispronouncing a word will open the gates of hell upon you (or nullify your prayer). If you are mispronouncing any word when you understand that the meaning of Qul is say and Kul is eat and while you are capable of pronouncing Qaaf correctly and yet say Kul, then you're pretty open about your mischief. But this is a different ball game.
Sincere advice: Please do not consider prayers to be discounted because someone mispronounced something. If you thought he made a mistake, you should have corrected him. Isn't your duty to side with the Truth and endure what comes as a result as per surah 'asr?
The whole idea is to understand the message, and not just read/recite it; but again, I may be pecking the wrong tree here :(
doesnt sound like a mispronounciation as much as it does like a lisp, or accent. certain people dont have the equivalent sound in their language, therefore have trouble saying it. i dont think they should be excluded from leading the prayers on just that basis.
wasnt Hazrat Bilal a famous example of a person with a bad accent who still was the muezzin in the Prophet's mosque?
agree with both of you.
hypnotix, it is refreshing to see a qari having such and open mind on pronounciation. Generally people who know the correct pronounciation have very strict opinions about those who can not pronounce properly.
agree with both of you.
hypnotix, it is refreshing to see a qari having such and open mind on pronounciation. Generally people who know the correct pronounciation have very strict opinions about those who can not pronounce properly.
Salam dear CG,
The best I can do is pronounce the letter for them and tell them what it should be pronounced as.
I used to run a tajwid class and there was this gentleman who, no matter how much I tried, was unable to pronounce the Pharyngeal and Emphatic letters such as ح (he could only pronounce Ha), ض and ظ (he could either say Zaad or Daad) and it was not his fault because he was putting in a lot of effort to correct himself.
It was then that I realized that it is not right to think of that person being unfit or unworthy of leading prayer at an occasion just because he cannot pronounce a certain letter. Perhaps he will be making sure his kids receive proper training in pronouncing Quranic Arabic and hence take corrective action that way. And if a person pronounces Quranic Arabic properly and yet does not follow the Quranic message, what good is his pronounciation anyway...
I remember this indian imam that used to prounce zuad [in urdu] so walad zawl leen instead of wald dawl leen. My dad talked to him but I don't think the imam sahab really could give a respectable answer. I've heard there are at least seven ways of pronunciation in arabic?
The other thing was people saying ameen so loud after surah fateha. I mean where does that come from? I thought you were supposed to be silent in prayers?
I remember this indian imam that used to prounce zuad [in urdu] so walad zawl leen instead of wald dawl leen. My dad talked to him but I don't think the imam sahab really could give a respectable answer. I've heard there are at least seven ways of pronunciation in arabic?
The other thing was people saying ameen so loud after surah fateha. I mean where does that come from? I thought you were supposed to be silent in prayers?
The only proper pronounciation of dZaad in Arabic is Emphatic (I haven't heard of a variant for it - so if the Imam said this, perhaps he needs to verify).
Kaaf, Laam, Qaaf and Jeem usually have variants. For Laam, some areas use the thick Laam as in Allah for all cases (it is also one of the traditions in the saba' 'asharah according to one of the recitations I heard of Shaikh Mustafaa Isma'eel).
I forgot to add that the saba' 'ashar do not just have to do with pronouncing letters, but also different ways of recitation with varying rules. For instance, one of the traditions pronouncs an-jaaa'ahum as an-jeee'ahum from surah Qaaf, and right at the hamzah, there's a pause without breaking the breath (saktah) so, an-jeee----ahum. That in addition to slighting variying pronounciations for some letters.
I got twenty million references when i searched for bilal and adhaan on USC-MSA, I cant really parse through it right now. But there is this (on wiki):
Being a Qari, I always strive to pronounce the Arabic in the Quranic pronounciation, however, even in different parts of Arabia (then and now) people use different pronounciation. For instance, many bedouins pronounce Qaaf as Gaaf, so al-Haqq will be pronouned as al-Hagg. Same with people from the Sinai/Egypt: They pronounce Jeem in it's Aramaic form as Gimal. So they will pronounce al-Hajj as al-Hagg...
I have seen different pronounciations of 'qaaf', some say 'gaaf', some say something like 'aa' etc. but I believe when they recite quran they do it as anyone else does (hijazi arabic???)
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Sincere advice: Please do not consider prayers to be discounted because someone mispronounced something. If you thought he made a mistake, you should have corrected him. Isn't your duty to side with the Truth and endure what comes as a result as per surah 'asr?
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His 'normal' lingo is that way, most of 'j' are 'z' and many 'z' are 'j' (not all), so I didn't correct him and I wanted to learn about it whether it is okay to pronounce quranic letters differently.
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The whole idea is to understand the message, and not just read/recite it; but again, I may be pecking the wrong tree here :(
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doesnt sound like a mispronounciation as much as it does like a lisp, or accent. certain people dont have the equivalent sound in their language, therefore have trouble saying it. i dont think they should be excluded from leading the prayers on just that basis.
I am not sure if you have heard any Indian/Bengali talking, they will pronounce many 'zay' as 'jay' (Man*jurul Islam, Az*mal Khan) so the 'equivalent' sound is right there but they 'replace' one by the other.
I have seen different pronounciations of 'qaaf', some say 'gaaf', some say something like 'aa' etc. but I believe when they recite quran they do it as anyone else does (hijazi arabic???)
Technically, it aught to be pronounced the way it has been related, i.e. via the riwaayaat of qiraat-wat-tajwiid. However, if someone has the inability (whether physical or psychological) to pronounce the letters correctly, there is no reason to consider that person unfit for leading prayers in any way. Some Arabs pronounce Haqqahu as Haggahu even when reciting the Quran (which is technically incorrect, but it is not something that should really be looked down upon in my view. You can explain to the person mispronouncing the word that the correct pronouncination is, say, HaQQahu, but should not make him a target of criticism because that will push that person in a corner and will work against what you want to achieve.)
His 'normal' lingo is that way, most of 'j' are 'z' and many 'z' are 'j' (not all), so I didn't correct him and I wanted to learn about it whether it is okay to pronounce quranic letters differently.
Yes I've seen this happe. It is not something that would render him or his prayer unfit... this is a psychological thing where this pronounciation is coming to him naturally...
im learnign tajweed now, and im having the hardest time wiht some letter...with Ain (backwards 3)....i can say it on its own, but when its in the middle of the word....problemo....
also joining the words...ikfha, idghaam, etc...need to work on that too..
I think there is a hadith "regarding attempting to read the Quran properly" that I cant remember the references and the exact wordings, and my Tajweed teacher Shaikh Sa'ad, also mentioned before we started the 1st lesson.....if a person reads the Quran, and attempts to read it correctly, but not able to...the Angles will take the recited words, correct it, and the present it to Allah (azzo waj'al), in a beautiful way and then Allah (azzo waj'al) says how beautiful this recitation is, and the Angels do not change the recitation but after permission from Allah (azzo waj'al).........
ive also learned that its a major sin (haram) if the quran is not read with tajweed.....
Dear Afshi and rshaikh00,
There's no sin such as this, unless it is deliberate and for an evil purpose such as making fun or mocking the message... please focus on the meaning.
And the word is Qiraat, and not Tajwiid... Tajwiid comes from J-W-D and has a different meaning. A Mujauwid is a Qari who recites the Quran with Manaazil and Long Waqf, such as Qari Abd al Basit or Mustafa Isma'eel. Qiraat means reading in proper dialect, Tartiil means reciting in proper Qiraat with a tone, and Tajwiid means using scales and chords in addition to the tone and Qiraat with much slower speed and expressive disposition.
