This was nice to see. Shaukat Aziz appreciated the strict procedures and competency of the army system. good to hear from a man who’s seen a lot of promotion systems all over rthe world in various organizations.
ISLAMABAD, April 27: Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz on Wednesday appreciated the criteria adopted for promotions in the Pakistan Army and indicated that a similar method would be introduced in the civil bureaucracy. Mr Aziz attended a session of the army’s selection board meeting on special invitation at the General Headquarters on Wednesday. The meeting, chaired by Chief of the army staff Gen Pervez Musharraf, considered promotion of Lt-Colonels and Colonels.
According to Inter Services Public Relations, the prime minister was briefed on the promotion system in the Army, the stringent promotion criteria and the procedure adopted for promotion of army officers to higher ranks. The PM appreciated the process of evaluation being followed by the Army’s selection board which, he said, could have applicability on civil service.
Re: Prime Minister praises army’s promotion system
i gather you seem to have little knowledge about the system itself.
the fact is, almost all who are lucky to be commissioned into the armed forces aftre being selected by ISSB (where often even sons of generals, air marshalls and admirals are not reccomended for selection) reach atleast major rank before they retire after about over 20 yrs of service. an officer on an average reaches the rank of major around 10 yrs of service. promotions from Major onwards are crucial because from that rank on start the ranks of senior leadership; from Lt.Col onwards. So promotions from major to Lt. Col are imp and from Brgadier to Maj Gen are imp and most crucial and at these stages, it's not one man who selects the hundreds of officers to go higher. every serving officer has his service record files which are evaluated by his CO who sends them to the respective dept to consider promotions. and like in every walk of life, officers who have better track records than others are more likely to be promoted. now what are better service records? even once an officer becomes an officer, he doesnt have an easy life. he has exams and tests and courses to take every now and then to survive in the profession. there are many kinds of courses like the Command and Staff College Quetta, the leading military higher education institute which trains foreign officers aswell. passing the command staff course ensures that the officer is well equipped enough to atlesst rech the rank of Colonel in most cases. officers not going to the Command staff course are unlikely to be selected for promotion over those who do. then there are courses conducted by foregin militray institutes like the US and UK. a number of officers are sent abroad to be trained in these higher command courses and acquire masters degrees from foreign world reputed institutes in the UK, US, Canada and Australia etc. so the top leadership that is selected for senior ranks are not Pervez Musharraf's neighbors or relatives or that of the VCOAS. they are the cream among the officers with bright credentials and achievements. and the best man always wins...
Re: Prime Minister praises army’s promotion system
To say the best man always wins in Pak is very naive. Or perhaps this is what you want to believe.
The system you described is how is officially happens, and how it happens in a professional Army, not how it always happens in Pak Army.. There are many good people who are stopped in their career for various reasons. One example, a Sindhi or Balochi will never get to Lt.Gen. Argue this if you like, but every Baloch or Sindhi will agree after their experiences, and history supports them.
And as for my knowledge, I went to CC Petaro, and know many people in the Army, serving and retired. My knowledge is not based on ‘reading’ or believing everything said by ISPR.
Re: Prime Minister praises army’s promotion system
My dear TheRealDeal
Why is it that it always have to be about Sindhi or Baloch..... when ppl say that its punjab who is ruling than how come there are so many general officers who are Pathans.......
the simple answer is that the ratio of people joining the army is more from NWFP and Punjab.
ppl from Punjab, not whole of the province mostly from the Districts of Rawalpindi, Jhelum, Attock and Chakwal (the Pothohar Belt) are mostly joining the army not just in the officer cadre but also as Sepoy, Airmen and Sailors. Similarly from the
NWFP you will find most service men from Mardan, Kohat, Banu etc.
Its a simple numbers game… more ppl apply from these provinces and more get selected … and thats how more ppl you will find at the general ranks.
As for you saying that you wont find a Sindhi or a Baloch as General officer… than my dear have you ever heard a name General Muhammad Musa Khan , he was Pakistan army’s C in C during the 1965 war, guess where did he belong to … Balochistan. The last governer of Balochistan a certain Lt. Gen. Abdul Qadir Baloch … well i think his name says where he belongs to … for other services i know more than a few ppl personally who reached 2 even 3 star ranks in air force.
A little while ago people use to say that Urdu Speaking community is not being allowed in the armed forces … if you look it up you will find that a large number of generals in the army are Urdu Speaker including Gen Pervez Musharraf …
Re: Prime Minister praises army’s promotion system
Salaam SP,
You are right in that there are less Sindhis, Balochis in the Army, but if i may say so without getting my head bitten off, that is often because the discrimination extends to the recuriting stage.
Mohajirs have long had many generals in the Army, Gen.Beg,Gen.Haider(a good governor),
Mush,etc.etc. Pathans, being a martial race have always been an important part of the Army.
In the Air Force,AM Daudpota is Sindhi. You will notice I am talking about the Army. Gen Musa Khan was not a native Balochi. I did hear about Gen.Baloch when he was appointed, but i'm not sure his family roots, name often does not mean anything.
I suppose the best way is to talk to a Sindhi or Baloch who was in the Army and ask him about it. i have learned from their experiences. Not just one or two disgruntled, perhaps bad apples, but several over my many years. This 'theme' always seems to come up,i highly doubt they are all making it up.
Re: Prime Minister praises army’s promotion system
AoA TheRealDeal
The thing is that there is no system which is perfect, you can fined flaws in every man made process and this case is no different.
As far as knowing people with bad experiences in the forces are concerned i know more people from Punjab who had bad experiences than people from other provinces. Belonging to an army family i have more than just a feel in this matters.
As for recruiting is concerned i will admitt i dont have much knowledge about Balochistan as i have never been there, but have first hand experience regarding sindh.
Fortunatly or unfortunatly Sindhi people (talking bout common rural man) are very attached to their homes and as much as possible they try not to go far from it. This is one of the biggest factor in the low recruitment from sindh in the sepoy cadre, Unlike Punjab Regt who center is at Mardan or Baloch Regt with center at Abbottabad, Sindh Regt's center is near to its ppl in Hyderabad and the recruiting officers are given powers to enlist ppl even by giving them relaxation in rules regarding education.
But when the numbers are not met in the regiment's own area than they have to bring in recruits from other places (i dont know if you are familiar with the ratio of provinces in infantry regiments). Where as in punjab i have seen at one of the AS & RO (army selection and recruitment office) that a person was applying for the post of "Laangri" (cook at jawan's mess) while he had a Masters Degree in Urdu Literature.
As for you saying about to Gen Qadir Baloch .... well he is a native Baloch and he was governer Balochistan till last year and before that i believe he retired in 2002 as Corps Commander Gujranwalla.
On the point regarding native and stuff........ there are many Changaizi/Hazra ppl who had successful careers in the forces and many are still there...... would you count them as people from Balochistan or not?
Re: Prime Minister praises army’s promotion system
lucky? haha…i feel sorry for them. they think they are doing islam a service and doing jihad and ribaat, while they are busy killing muslims in waziristan, arresting muslims in other parts of the country and acting like paid killers and mercenaries under the command of corrupt UN to implement the new world order.