Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Do prayer beads have any significance in Islamic tradition or were they adopted from other religions and cultures?

As a supplementary question: why do we reduce God to an accountant? what is the significance of uttering certain words exactly a given number of times?

2

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

I think Muslims got it from other cultures. Muslims initially used pebbles for the purpose and counting on fingers was preferred.

As far as playing accounting with God is concerned, its in human nature. naap tol ke neki karna. I remember this old saying I heard from my Dadi and Amma: 'Aghay ta Pao, na ta Manann khe mota aa'. if accepted a quarter is enough, otherwise tonnes are useless.

3

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

From what I know on the subject, which is not a lot, the need for tasbeeh is real Because RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Alihi wa Sallam told us to recite certain things so many times. So the whole counting and keeping track is not a made up concept

Also Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala is not merely an accountant, but you are rewarded for your actions. If you are far from having an everyday reliance on Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala for your moods and inputs into the mind then perhaps the hustle and bustle of life may make you think that someone is reciting for nothing till afterlife. However, if you know the subtle differences such recitations make to your Iman and relationship with Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala then you will know Allah Most Merciful guides by these actions

Slowly but surely your Heart melts away into subservience and there is Happiness and Contentment, and an improvement in character, and a dislike for prohibited things

So in short they bring you closer to Allah Most Merciful and purify the heart

4

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

[quote]
Abdullah ibn Abbas (radi Allahu anhu) narrated: “We would come with Abdullah ibn Masud to the Masjid. One day Abu Musa al-Ashari came, looking worried, and asked whether Abu Abdur-Rehman (Ibn Masud) had come out. We said ‘No,’ so he also sat waiting. When Ibn Masud came out Abu Musa said, ‘Just now I saw an innovation but it looks good in seeing.’ Ibn Masud said, ‘What did you see?’ Abu Musa said, ‘I saw a group sitting in a circle waiting for us. They had pebbles in their hands. In every circle there was a man who said, ‘Say Takbeer one hundred times’ so they said Takbeer (Allahu Akbar) one hundred times. Then he said, ‘Say Tahleel one hundred times’ so they said Tahleel (Alhamdulillah) one hundred times, and likewise they said Tasbeeh (SubhanAllah) one hundred times.’ Ibn Masud said, ‘Then what did you say?’ Abu Musa said, ‘I did not say anything and I waited for you.’”

“Whilst talking both reached the Masjid and observed the recitation in the manner described by Abu Musa. Addressing the people of one circle Ibn Masud asked, ‘What is going on?’ They said, ‘These are pebbles and on them we are reciting Takbeer, Tahleel and Tasbeeh of Allah.’ Ibn Masud said, ‘Instead of this you better count your sins. I stand in surety that Allah will not allow your virtues to go to waste. Alas O Ummah of Muhammad (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam), how soon you are spoiled. What a number of Sahabah are still amongst you. The clothes of the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) are still not worn out. The utensils he used are still intact. And so you think that you are following a way which is better than the Prophet’s and gives better guidance? Are you not opening a door of deviation through this Bidah (innovation in religious matters)?’ The people replied apologetically, ‘By Allah our Neeyah (intention) was good.’ Ibn Masud said, ‘What a number of men there are that intend good but never reach that good.’” [Narrated by Ad-Daarimee in As-Sunan]
[/quote]

Also, It is recommended to do tasbeeh counting on the fingers because as we all know our limbs will testify to our actions.

Allah knows best.

5

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

1-I think considering tasbeeh as essential for reciting certain tasbeehat is not correct, using them to easily count such tasbeehat is fine in my opinion.
2-Inshallah our fingers will testify that they did tasbeeh.

Wallah o Alam

6

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

This Narration is not accepted by Ahlus Sunnah, the last two narrators of this report are unreliable, fabricator respectively. The report is considered Mawdu (fabricated)

There is a televised discussion on this report available
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWI3xo_026Y

7

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

Ba-qoul e Faraz:

Mera qalam nahin tasbeeh us muballigh ki
jo bandagi ka bhi har dam hisaab rakhta hai

8

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

So it seems that prayer beads have not much significance in Islamic tradition.

How about the counting of things?

For religious obligations that are mandatory, I can imagine why a certain number is proposed (for example for salat). That brings uniformity to the prayers, etc of the nation.

There is a whole industry of providing date seeds for counting reading or uttering of some holy words over and over again. Is there any logic or reason to advise things to be uttered a certain number of times when those are not obligatory prayers? Why the count is so important?

9

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

^Salat has some numbers attached for only when they are fard or sunnat e Moukadda.

Otherwise one can pray as long it is realistic and possible.

10

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

^The question was asked by a caller on the program, Asrar e Rahmat and the mufti gave the example of how one of the women from Rasool SAWS's family (can't remember if it was wife or daughter) was keeping count of dhikr using gitliyan. She had an end goal number in mind and was not prohibited by the Messenger SAWS.

11

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

Instead of looking in to this matter of any controversy, the message should be:

it does not mater if you count or not.

Do whatever zikr you can.

At least start the day with Bismillah and end with Alhamdulillah.

12

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

Significance of Tasbih (100 beads chain) is that, Tasbih is just a tool that keeps record, no more no less. To say that it is allowed in Islam or not, is meaningless, and whoever ask such stupid question should be sent for treatment.

As for accounting of what one utters is concerned, there is certain hadith (acceptable by all Muslims) that prophet (SAW) told Fatima (RA) about a Tasbih known as Tasbih-e-Fatima (RA). In that tasbih, recitation is fixed, and that is:

33 times (Tasbih) Subhan-Allah
33 times (Tahmid) Alhamd-ulillah
33 times (Takbir) Allah-u-Akbar
and 1 time … Kalma-e-Shahadah.
{variation exists).

One would find most Tasbih Muslim uses have 99 or 100 beads that would have division after 33 beads … or tasbih itself would be of 33 beads, and it seems, they are all designed to read Tasbih-e-Fatima (RA).

Anyhow, it does not matter if one really use Bead or fingers or whatever, but numbers are fixed for that particular Tasbih Prophet (SAW) told to Fatima (RA).

On the other hand, no one stops anyone to do zikr as many time they like, without accounting. Anyhow, if one is intending to read Tasbih-e-Fatima (RA), 33:33:33:1 … is must … and in this case, the tasbih we find (one with 100 beads or 33 beads) is helpful.

13

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

Al-Bari’ – The Maker of Order
Al-‘Adl – The Just
Al-Hasib – The Accounter

We don't reduce Allah (SWT) in His Sifaat for Accounting ...

Remember: Surah 99 - Al-Zilzalah

So whoever does an atom's weight of good will see it
And whoever does an atom's weight of evil will see it.

If rosary beads are bid'ah then travelling to the mosque in a car is too ...

14

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

So we do not know what is the significance of the numbers prescribed?

15

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

The significance is more often the difference between faraid and sunnan or sunnan and nawafila ... why would 5 prayers be of significance? It is because the secret of 5 is in the instruction and not in the number ... A sixth prayer is not required but is allowed ... at certain times of day prayer is not allowed. Why this demarcation?

A wisdom behind this is that it is a Mercy from Allah (SWT) to specify targets - humans tend to work better and get organised with targets. A parallel wisdom is dosage - amounts specified in azdkaar and other religious duties help us determine a dose that brings us out of a certain condition. May be 33 is the minimum amount for the words to start taking an affect on the heart? Who knows ...

But therein is a fitnah too ... A trial - for those who waiver and query will do so using these same arguments ... It is not Allah (SWT) who is questioned it is us who are questioned ... Just imagine if a routine was not prescribed ... There are patterns indeed - why are there 7 heavens, 7 laps of the ka'abah, 7 days of the week? Why are most azdkaars done in odd numbers? There must be reasons and many have argued what they are ... I'm not going to do that here .. but various numbers may have spiritual impact that we are not cognitively aware of ... Allahu'Alim

16

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

^ Thanks.

So, essentially we do not know except that it can be a motivational tool for target setting.

17

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

To clarify before this ... is that these numbers where applicable are part of the prophetic instruction which means they are part of the religion. If we say it is better to pray 6 prayers every day as obligation then we will be innovating, but if we say that we pray 5 out of obligation and choose to do extra then we will be rewarded ... Numbers tell us that every thing has a place and we must put everything in its rightful place ... And that is justice.

the reason we do 33 subhanAllah is because RasoolAllah (SAW) did so ... And we cannot be better than him ... But if we do more then we do so out of another intent ... That we are doing more than the amount ... Out of nawafil ... For extra ajar ... If limits were not established in the Sunnah then for sure we would have heavy targets to reach and none of our actions could reach nawafila they would all fall short of Fard or Sunnah ... But setting numbers it means the rest of the weaker Muslims through time like myself can benefit from nawafila too.

18

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

Actually, we do not know significance of numbers in zikr, but numbers are important, as Prophet (SAW) did not say to Fatima (RA) that to do zikr (Subhan-Allah, Alhamdu-lillah, Allah-o-Akbar) as many times as possible, rather told her (AS) to do zikr in fixed numbers.

If we do zikr, we can do that as many times as we like, but for instance if we do zikr:

1122 times Subhan-Allah (or any number)
Then
1312 times Alhamdu-lillah (or any number)
Then
939 times Allah-u-Akber (or any number)
Then
As many times Kalma-e-Shahadah (any number)

Or mix the numbers and place …. That is:

1288 times Alhamdu-lillah (or any number)
Then
1133 times Subhan-Allah (or any number)
Then
335 times Kalma-e-Shahadah in any number
Then
893 times Allah-u-Akber (or any number)

And so on then it would not be called tasbih-e-Fatima (RA).

For us to read tasbih-e-Fatima (RA), we have to recite:

33 times (Tasbih) Subhan-Allah
33 times (Tahmid) Alhamd-ulillah
33 times (Takbir) Allah-u-Akbar
and 1 time ... Kalma-e-Shahadah.

And so on ... and then only it would be tasbih-e-Fatima (RA) … and we would be saying that we are doing tasbih according to instruction of Prophet (SAW) to Fatima (RA).

If anyone wants to follow their will and do zikr whatever way they want to, then there is no problem. They can even say that they do not care about what Prophet (SAW) told Fatima (RA) and that do not care about what we know as tasbih-e-Fatima (RA), but in the end, for us Muslims, we have this belief that doing tasbih-e-Fatima (RA) is not just zikr, but faith on Prophet (SAW) and his words to his daughter (AS), and has more religious importance to us then doing tasbih as we like and in much larger number.

So, doing tasbih-e-Fatima after salah … that is:

33 times (Tasbih) Subhan-Allah
33 times (Tahmid) Alhamd-ulillah
33 times (Takbir) Allah-u-Akbar
and 1 time ... Kalma-e-Shahadah.

Has more sawab, is more beneficial, and is more important than doing zikr as follow:

1122 times Subhan-Allah (or any number)
1312 times Alhamdu-lillah (or any number)
939 times Allah-u-Akber (or any number)
443 times Kalma-e-Shahadah (or any number)

Or mix the numbers and place …. then recite:

1288 times Alhamdu-lillah (or any number)
1133 time Subhan-Allah (or any number)
335 times Kalma-e-Shahadah (or any number
893 times Allah-u-Akber (or any number)

Now coming to prayer beads: From above it is obvious that to recite in exact number ’33 Tasbih : 33 Tahmid : 33 Takbir : 1 shahadah’ some tool (be that fingers, stones, prayer beads, or whatever) would be required.

Anyhow, who damn care and want to device their own beliefs and religious principle, for them even tasbih-e-Fatima (RA) that was told by Prophet (SAW) to his daughter (AS) would not be important nor any tasbih with particular number. On the other hand, I do not think any Muslim cares for them, what they believe and what religious principle they have ... these people can do whatever they like. no problem.

19

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

We should remember that in Fajar Allah has told us to read 2 Rikah fard ... and that is a number. Anyone who would do 1 Rikah fard or 3 Rikah fard or unlimited Rikah fard in Fajar, he would go to hell. So, fixed numbers are important and it matters.

If a person do not do fajr, but believes that numbers are not important and that one can do any number of rikah as fard in fajar, than that person would also go to hell. On the other hand, a person who miss fajr but do believe that in fajr he has to do only 2 rikah fard, that person may get forgiven by Allah.

Reason is: One who do not believe on fixed number of rikah in fajar (or for any Salah), that person do not believe on Allah and his command, that would take him to hell. Whereas the one who may miss fajr but believe that fard in fajr is only 2 rikah, he believes on Allah and his command, so Allah may forgive him.

20

Re: Prayer beads (tasbeeh)

Peace bro Sa1eem

It is wrong for us to say that a person who does 1 rakah would go to hell, but yes would be at fault of kufr so long as he believed and did so with intent only 1 rakah. The person may be saved from hell from another thing and so we should leave the doors of Rahma open and let Allah (SWT) Decide who would go to hell. But I essentially agree with you on the matter of numbers.