As salaam alaikum,
I hope everyone reads this in the best of health. First of all I would very much like to see how lying has anything to do with the Shia faith. You claim it’s a “common thing” but proof? ( I guess you seemed to leave that out)Excuse me but who are you to claim that Shia Musilms “betray other and lie and cannot be trusted to write a hadeeth?” Just because you had a few sopposed bad experiences with some.
I had a sunni muslim once tell me that the Holy Quran (astaghferullah) had contradictions in it. Now should I write a post claiming all sunni muslims believe that? No that wouldn’t be logical.Now back to your example of how a Shia Muslim sopposedly lied to you regarding a bukhari hadith. I want to know what the topic you two were discussing, the volume number that he gave you, and the page number
You claim that all the references this person gave you were irrelevant how so? Be more specific.Then you go on to claim that another Shia Muslim added a verse to the Holy Quran (astaghferullah) Please tell me the verse and ayat number to which he or she was refering to.It doesn’t end there though you claim that Shia Muslims actually “claim to be Sunni” and reference false hadiths. I’m sorry but no one has that much time on their hands. The thing I don’t understand is how can someone list a false reference especially from your own SUNNI HADITHS. I’ve heard that Sahih al-Bukhari is right underneath the book of Allah. I suggest you start reading it and actually looking up references before just brushing it off as being “false.” Again you further state in your post that Shia’s are allowed to lie did you know lying is one 9 deadly sins? You keep saying how Shia Muslims never give you any references, so now I’m asking you where are yours regarding this statement???
You want references from the HOly Quran? Sure I’ll provide them. Sura Ashura ayat 23:
“…Say (O’ Muhammad unto mankind): I do not ask of you any reward for it (preaching the message)’ but love for my kin (Ahlul-Bayt)…”
or what about 33:33 regarding:
“It has always been the will of Allah to keep from you all stigma (of sin, ignorance, and disbelief) O people of the House and to purify you with a perfect purification.” Anyone claiming these are not refering to the Ahlul-Bayt I suggest you
Anyone claiming this ayat of the Holy Quran isn’t regarding the Ahlul al Bayt I strongly suggest you check out these sunni references regarding the story of Hadees-e-Kisa:
(1)Sahih Muslim, Kitab Fazaele Al-Sahabah Chapter Fazaele Ahlebaital Nabi. Part Vll pg.130.
(2) Imam Ahmad Hanbal, Musnad Part 1 page 331, Part 3 pages 151-259 & 285, Part IV pages 5 & 107, Part Vl pages 292, 296, 298, 304, and 322.
(3) Sahih Tirmizi, K-44 Surat H-7 K-56, B-31, and 60 (plus more)
And for Sura Ashura ayat #23 I urge you to look up:Surat Tahirim Sura 66 (section 1- 5)
1.“O Prophet! Why dost thou forbid (unto thyself) what God hath made lawful unto thee? Thou seekest to please thy wives; and God is Oft-Forgiving, the Most Merciful.”
2.“Indeed hath God made lawful for you in dissolution of your oaths (in such cases), and God (alone) is your Lord, and He is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.”
3. When the Prophet confided unto one of his wives a matter but when she divulged it (unto others) and God apprised him thereof, he made known a part of it and avoided a part; so when he informed her of it, she siad: “Who informed thee of this?” He said: “Informed, me, the All-Knowing, the All-Aware.”
4.If ye two turn (in repentance) unto Him, then indeed your hearts are inclined (to this) but if ye two back up each other against him, then verily God it is Who is his Proyector, and Gabriel, and the (most) Virtuous one among the believers, and the angerls thereafter will back (him) up.
5. Happly his Lord if he divorceth you, will give him in your place wives *better than you submissive, faithful, obedient, repentant, prayerful, observers of fast, widows, and virgins
(In King Fahad’s Printed Quran, the sunni king of saudi, in paranthesis it says the names of Aisha the daughter of abu bakr and Hafsa the daughter of Umar regarding teasing the Holy Prophet,disclosing of secrets, and backbiting about him which later on the messenger angel informed the Prophet of, and that Allah would be pleased with the Prophet if he divorces them and in there place he’ll recieve better wives)
So how could the verses 33:33 and Sura Ashura ayat 23 be refering to the wives of the Prophet if later on we find that Allah will be pleased with the Prophet divorcing Aisha and Hafsa (according to the sunni quran of King Fahad) And in there place the Holy Prophet will recieve better wives?(ie:faithful, submissive, obedient, repentant, etc)
So I guess I just showed you Quranic references making the statment you made earlier 100% inaccurate.
Before I begin with Imam Jafar al-Sadiq I would like to quote from a hadith:
Abu Hanifah says: Had not been the two years, al-Numan would have perished (meaning the two years he spent on learning under al-Imam Jafar al-Sadiq). And when al-Imam Malik ibn Abas says: No eye has ever seen, no ear has ever heard, and no heart has ever thought of a human better than Jafar al-Sadiq, in respect thought of a human better than Jafar al-Sadiq, in respect of virtue, knowledge, worship, and godliness.
Sunni reference:Manaqib Al Abi Talib,“bab fi ahwal al-Imam al-Sadiq.”
Now you referenced Al-Kafi saying that Imam Jafar al-sadiq said,“Mix with them externally but oppose them internally.”
Now can you please tell me how you thought that meant that it was refering to sunni muslims? Does it say oppose sunni’s in there? No. Does it say anything regarding ANY SECT of Islam? No. So next time you want to quote a hadith please make sure your interpretation is accurate.
Then you write down a sopposed ayat from the Holy Quran (with no reference by the way) and try to make some connection between concealing and Imam Jafar al-Sadiq earlier statement. Where is the connection???
Astaghferullah then you use this quote"A believer who does not dissimulate is like a body without a head." Again with no reference only stating
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif
Tafseer al-Askari)
What kind of reference is that?
Where are all the references you claim to have about lying??? This post is about lying so where are your references?
Then you jump to the jewish religion. And how they lie also (again I must ask where is the reference for that) So basically this post has no point to it. You claim Shia’s lie (astaghferullah) but with no references. You claim jews lie again with no references.
How can you expect anyone to believe anything you write without a reference..??
What does Abdullah have to do with ANY SECT of Islam? In case you didn’t know the split between sunni and shia followed the death of the Holy Prophet. Shia Muslims follow what he said at Ghadir-e-khum:
The Messenger of Allah declared: “It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them,you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise).”
Then the Messenger of Allah continued: “Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?” People cried and answered: “Yes, O’ Messenger of God.” Then Prophet (PBUH) held up the hand of Ali and said: “Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O’ God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him.”
Some of the Sunni references:
(1) Sahih Tirmidhi, v2, p298, v5, p63
(2) Sunan Ibn Maja, v1, pp 12,43
(3) Khasa’is, by al-Nisa’i, pp 4,21
(4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p129, v3, pp 109-110,116,371
(5) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,118,119,152,330, v4, pp 281,368,370,
372,378, v5, pp 35,347,358,361,366,419 (from 40 chains of narrators)
(6) Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, pp 563,572
(7) Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, p103 (from several transmitters)
(8) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v12, pp 49-50
(9) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v3, p19
(10) Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, pp 169,173
Not to mention that After his speech, the Messenger of Allah asked every body to give the oath of allegiance to Ali (AS) and congratulate him. Among those who gave him the oath were Umar, Abu Bakr, and Uthman. It is narrated that Umar and Abu Bakr said:
“Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the leader (Mawla) of all believing men and women.”
Some Sunni references:
(1) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v4, p281
(2) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v12, pp 49-50
(3) Mishkat al-Masabih, by al-Khatib al-Tabrizi, p557
(4) Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, v1, part3, p144
(5) Kitabul Wilayah, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari(6) al-Musannaf, by Ibn Abi Shaybah
(7) al-Musnad, by Abu Ya’ala
(8) Hadith al-Wilayah, by Ahmad Ibn `Uqdah
While the Sunni’s followed abu bakr, umar, uthman, and Imam Ali last.
This is very interesting because was it not abu bakr and who said:
Abu Bakr said: “May Allah never put me in a situation where I can not have
access to Abul Hasan (i.e., Ali) to solve a problem.” Similarly, Sa’id al-
Musayyib said: “Umar Ibn al-Khattab used to beg God to preserve him from a perplexing case which the father of al-Hasan was not present to decide.”
Furthermore Umar said over 70 times: “If there was not Ali, Umar would have perished.”
Sunni references:
- Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p647, Tradition #1100
- al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p39
- Manaqib, by al-Khawarizmi, p48
- al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa’d, v2, p338
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v2, p194
- Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p171
Further, you followed the sunnah of 'Uthman ibn Affan which calls for completing the prayers during travel (four rakah prayers), contrary to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (S) who used to perform it (travel prayer) in two rakah (qasr).
Sunni reference:Ibid.,Vol.2, p.35 (…and thus interpreted by Aishah too who performed four rakah)–p.36
When the people saw what Uthman was doing, the companions of the
Prophet in Medina wrote to other companions who were scattered
throughout the frontier provinces: “You have gone forth but to
struggle in the path of Almighty God, for the sake of Muhammad’s
religion. In your absence the religion of Muhammad has been corrupted and forsaken. So come back to reestablish Muhammad’s religion.” Thus, they came from every direction until they killed the Caliph (Uthman).
Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari, English version, v15, p184
But let’s not get off the topic now, it is stated in your own hadith books that:
Umar threatened to kill anyone refusing to swear allegiance to Abu Bakr, declaring: Kill him, he is seditious!Then he threatened those who lingered in ‘Ali’s house to burn the house with whoever was inside it. Sunni reference: Ibiid., Vol. Vlll, p.26 Ta’rikh al-Tabari;Ta’rikh al-khulafar’ of Ibn Qutaybah.
Then after the death of Abu Bakr, Umar contradicted what he just did by announcing publicly that swearing allegiance to Abu Bakr was a slip may Allah protect the Muslims against it’s evil.
Sunni reference: Sahih al-Bukhari Vol.Vlll, p.26 “bab rajm al-hubla min al-zina.”
But let’s not forget what the Holy Prophet (pbuh) said about Imam Ali (A.S.):
The Holy Prophet said," The position Ali has to me is the same that I have to my Lord."
Sunni references:
(1) Ibn Hajar in al-Sawaiq al-muhriqah, p.106
(2) Dhakhair al-uqba p.64, al-Riyad al-nadirah, Vol. 2 p.215
(3) Ihqaq al-haqq, Vol. Vll p.217
The Holy Prophet said," This man ('Ali) is my brother, and executor and succesor after me; so you should adhere to and obey him.“Sunni references:Tarikh al-Tabari, Vol.2 p.319 &
Tarikh Ibn al-Athir, Vol.2 p.62
This man Ali is my brother, and executor and succesor after me; so you should adhere to and obey him.
Sunni references: Tarikh al-Tabari, Vol.2,p.319 and Tarikh Ibn al’Athir Vol.2 p.62
The Holy Prophet said to Ali,” Your position to me is exactly like that of Aaron to Moses, except that there is no prophet after me."
Sunni references: Sahih Muslim, Vol.VII, p.120 and Sahih al-Bukhari, “Bab fadail Ali.”
Now back to your previous post you quote from Al-Kafi again. Regarding how Shia Muslims “lie” but no where in that quote has the word “lie” so can you please tell me what the purpose of quoting from hadiths if your just going to dance around the question?
Again you quote without the sura and verse number from the Holy Quran (big surprise)Why is it that everytime you sopposedly quote from the Quran there’s no reference and you claim that Shia’s opinion regarding it is this and that. BUT THERE’S NO PROOF!!!
How can you consistantly say over and over how Shia’s lie when it looks like your the one doing it!
Just because you quote from a “persian” book doesn’t mean that it’s an authentic Shia hadith book. Maybe you should check your references when you actually do make one. “Superstious ideas” “insulting the Prophets companions” oh and “insult the meaning of Islam” these are great false accusations you make but it’s so hilarious that again you don’t use a reference to back up your comments.
Again you state that Shia’s practice “lies on Muslims” BUT SURPRISE SURPRISE NO REFERENCE! Did you know
Let me remind you that in Tirmidhi it’s also stated that:The Holy Prophet said that he was leaving behind two precious things first of them being the Book of Allah, and his Ahlul al Bayt. And if you adhered to both of them you’d never go astray.
Sunni references:
- Sahih Muslim, “kitab fadail 'Ali ibn Abi Talib.” Vol. Vll p.122
2.Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Vol.V.p.328
3.Al-Imam al-Nasai in his book al-Khasais p.21 (plus more)
“For every prophet there is an executor (wasi), and my executor is 'Ali ibn Abi Talib.
Sunni reference:Tarikh ibn Asakir al-Shafii,v3,p.5
The Messenger of Allah said:
“I am the seal of the prophets and 'Ali is the seal of the executors.”
Sunni reference: Yanabi al-mawaddah, vol 2, p.3, on the authority of al-Daylami,Manaqib al-Khwarazmi and Dhakha ir al-uqba.
The Messenger of Allah has said:
To love Ali is faith and hating him is hypocrisy.”
Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Vol. 1 p.61
And:“Ali is from me and I am from him.”
Sunni reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol.3, p.168
Now any sane human after reading all these references from both sunni hadiths and the Holy Quran can see what kind of postion Imam Ali and the rest of the Holy Prophet’s Ahlul al-Bayt had. Your own caliphs congradulated Imam Ali at Ghadir-e-khum! If they don’t deny it why do you? Now before you answer to this post I’d like to state these are all your own sunni hadiths don’t argue with me look them up and argue with them.
For further information I urge all of you to check out the book Then I was Guided by Muhammed al-Tijani.
Allah hafiz
-786-