Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
PPP and MQM both are facing now leadership problem . N$ is facing establishmnt and Ik is given support to counter N$ but I don't believe that estab can bear any powerful leader so wait.
Woh seerhi par chrha kar neechay say seerhi khench letay hain .
وہ سیڑھی پر چڑھا کر نیچے سے سیڑھی کھینچ لیتے ہیں
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
There were times when everyone was all praise to Zardari's Mechiavellian politics (including me). But it looks like those days are very near to be over.
Pundits here at GS had long indicated as soon as Zardari took over reigns of PPP that he will take PPP down.
PPP ko Asghar Khan, Zia Ul Haq, Musharraf nahi khutum kar saka. .. pti tu abhi sirf ik "a new kid around the block" hia ...
Its not about other parties crashing PPP but more like "ghar ka bedi lankha dhaye", PPP is in self destruct mode with Zardari/Rahman Malik in charge.
So who do you think should be the replacement? That's the most important question which will determine if PPP remains a united party.
They have to chose the leader on merit/skills and based on widespread support not just because 'relationship' with a bhutto.
What do you think if Imran dies tomorrow, all the halla ghulla will be gone? People are not important its the idea & ideology.
Don't worry, likes of Mahmood Qureshi will take over, he is strong and capable.
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Pundits here at GS had long indicated as soon as Zardari took over reigns of PPP that he will take PPP down.
Its not about other parties crashing PPP but more like "ghar ka bedi lankha dhaye", PPP is in self destruct mode with Zardari/Rahman Malik in charge.
They have to chose the leader on merit/skills and based on widespread support not just because 'relationship' with a bhutto. Don't worry, likes of Mahmood Qureshi will take over, he is strong and capable.
I have predicted it earlier ,
There is one now
Prime Minister Shah Mahmood
وزیر اعظم شاہ محمود
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Captain1:
"They have to chose the leader on merit/skills and based on widespread support not just because 'relationship' with a bhutto."
Actually, even more important is the question as to from where he would be. If the alternate leader comes from Seraiki or Punjabi area then PPP will split between Sindh and Punjab. Because the only reason Sindhis vote for PPP is its leader being from Sindh.
Qureshi, Eitezaz or Rabbani may be true PPP stalwarts deserving to be PPP leader but eventually it is not competence which will determine PPP's future.
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Why you do not discuss about MQM , I have listened here that 'they' will use Mush to cover MQM vote bank and ZM to divide Sindhi votes .
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Farooq Laghari, Naseer Ullah Khan Babar and many others were far more important and influential leaders of PPP them SMQ which to me might have not gotten any ministry to start with had BB be leading the party... People come and go in the parties, had parties been dependent on persons, PPP might have been history after Bhutto and PML-N might have not been anywhere after the exile of its top leadership and breaking away of the party to make PML-Q...
If the joining and leaving party means anything, than PTI is the party who have lost most of its leadership, from the day it was founded till today, almost everyone have left..even Justice Wajihuddin is no where to be seen and rumours are that being a decent guy he have quietly sided his ways from the, Senoir VP from Balochistan has left and as i heard Senior VP from KPK also left..
Point is parties are not dependent of persons, i can't say this about PTI as yet... but parties LIKE PPP just don't go down easily...
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Why you do not discuss about MQM , I have listened here that 'they' will use Mush to cover MQM vote bank and ZM to divide Sindhi votes .
I don't care about MQM and you know that.
If you really want to change the subject then do it yourself. Start a thread yourself. Why are you asking me to do you a service?
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Point is parties are not dependent of persons, i can't say this about PTI as yet... but parties LIKE PPP just don't go down easily...
If you read carefully then you will see that I did not mention PTI as the cause of PPP's demise. It is not just Mehmood Qureshi leaving PPP which can bring PPP down. Rather it is the absence of a unifying figure, a Bhutto, and potential change of leadership from Sindhi to Seraiki; which can bring PPP's downfall.
All the people you quoted left while Benazir, a Bhutto, was there. Now PPP is being headed by a non-Bhutto, who is very disliked in PPP Punjab. So if they come forward and bring their own leader like Rabbani, Eitezaz, etc. then it would be first time that PPP leadership will go to a non-Sindhi. And if this happens then PPP will be split between Sindh and Punjab factions.
The only way PPP can stay united is for PPP people to shut their mouth and continue to drag alongside Zardari and Bilawal "Bhutto" Zardari. Whether they like it or not.
Any change of leadership, and PPP will be toast.
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Farooq Laghari, Naseer Ullah Khan Babar and many others were far more important and influential leaders of PPP them SMQ which to me might have not gotten any ministry to start with had BB be leading the party... People come and go in the parties, had parties been dependent on persons, PPP might have been history after Bhutto and PML-N might have not been anywhere after the exile of its top leadership and breaking away of the party to make PML-Q...
If the joining and leaving party means anything, than PTI is the party who have lost most of its leadership, from the day it was founded till today, almost everyone have left..even Justice Wajihuddin is no where to be seen and rumours are that being a decent guy he have quietly sided his ways from the, Senoir VP from Balochistan has left and as i heard Senior VP from KPK also left..
Point is parties are not dependent of persons, i can't say this about PTI as yet... but parties LIKE PPP just don't go down easily...
How did SMQ and PTI come into the picture? As khoji said, I don't believe SMQ departure can 'destroy' PPP, they have many more people in their so-called leadership but they lose their water in front of Zardari who is destroying the party at will. PPP has been 'person' party, after killing of ZAB party was in tatters, I believe they tried to drag Nusrat Bhutto as leader, then Benazir Bhutto. When Benazir left or threatened to leave the party, they saw people will leave them too so they granted her life-time chairperson-ship. That is why Bilawal "Bhutto" Zardari is acceptable to the party leadership, they are only cashing the brand "Bhutto".
If you read carefully then you will see that I did not mention PTI as the cause of PPP's demise. It is not just Mehmood Qureshi leaving PPP which can bring PPP down. Rather it is the absence of a unifying figure, a Bhutto, and potential change of leadership from Sindhi to Seraiki; which can bring PPP's downfall. All the people you quoted left while Benazir, a Bhutto, was there. Now PPP is being headed by a non-Bhutto, who is very disliked in PPP Punjab. So if they come forward and bring their own leader like Rabbani, Eitezaz, etc. then it would be first time that PPP leadership will go to a non-Sindhi. And if this happens then PPP will be split between Sindh and Punjab factions.
The only way PPP can stay united is for PPP people to shut their mouth and continue to drag alongside Zardari and Bilawal "Bhutto" Zardari. Whether they like it or not.
Any change of leadership, and PPP will be toast.
PPP has to decide to elect leadership based on competence, they may lose vote-bank in short-term but that will be in their best interest for long term, but then 'kon jeeta hay teri zulf ke sar honay tak'.... who has that much patience in Pakistani political setup.
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
How did SMQ and PTI come into the picture? As khoji said, I don't believe SMQ departure can 'destroy' PPP, they have many more people in their so-called leadership but they lose their water in front of Zardari who is destroying the party at will. PPP has been 'person' party, after killing of ZAB party was in tatters, I believe they tried to drag Nusrat Bhutto as leader, then Benazir Bhutto. When Benazir left or threatened to leave the party, they saw people will leave them too so they granted her life-time chairperson-ship. That is why Bilawal "Bhutto" Zardari is acceptable to the party leadership, they are only cashing the brand "Bhutto".
PPP has to decide to elect leadership based on competence, they may lose vote-bank in short-term but that will be in their best interest for long term, but then 'kon jeeta hay teri zulf ke sar honay tak'.... who has that much patience in Pakistani political setup.
True that OP haven't said that, but this event is one of the prime reason this thought and thread we have here... SMQ have posed himself as one of the most influential leader from South Punjab... and yes many anchors are saying that this is beginning of the end of the PPP... and if you pay attention you will see that i have also mentioned PML-N in my reply..
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
There is a strong factor of incompetence in governance which is bringing the PPP down. I will recall your attention to Bill Clinton's remark.."It's still the economy stupid." PPP has failed miserably to deliver on that front in past 3 1/2 years. NS was banking on the stupidity of the present government to become popular.. but I guess this strategy has misfired badly. As the present government is getting unpopular, NS popularity graph is also going down rapidly.. as people believe both of them are a part of the problem.. and people have started to believe NS is not an alternate to PPP.
Present upsurge in PTI popularity has more to do with the "nalaique" of the present rulers rather than establishment, his program to bring a change, or people joining him..
There is no doubt that IK is being considered as a real popular leader in Pakistan at the moment.. i don't know how this will actually translate in the real electoral politics.. but there is no doubt there are a lot of common people actually supporting him aggressively.
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
"They have to chose the leader on merit/skills and based on widespread support not just because 'relationship' with a bhutto."
Relationship with Bhuttos won't be suffice. It must be a Bhutto itself! That's the only criteria.
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Why you do not discuss about MQM , I have listened here that 'they' will use Mush to cover MQM vote bank and ZM to divide Sindhi votes .
pasha sahib plz dont worry MQM not going to lose any seat you should be worry about Liyari..
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
PPP's "sindh card" has been drowned down the drain in the recent floods. Vast swamps of land were flooded in interior Sindh and hundreds of thousands of people were affected but keeping up the typical incompetent and corrupt way of government, they didn't as much as bat an eyelid to help those poor sindhis. I was watching a program in which a lot of people from a flood-hit interior Sindh area were literally cursing the govt. Now they really have to be stupid to vote these thugs again or support them in the racist "sindh card".
PPP is out and PTI is in !!!!
as far as i have known..sindhi's will always vote these jagirdar's watever is the case..i came across few sindhis recently from interior and they get annoyed even if i criticize the PPP. besides i also watched a Talat Hussain's program on floods in interior and he was interviewing a villager from zardari's area..and telling Talat how zardari sb. did not even visit the flood affected areas. but when Talat asked him about who will he vote for in next elections the villager replied...vote to zardari ka hai.
they wont straighten up.
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Agreed that PPP is still in position to exploit people of Sindh by playing Sindh card again. That flood drowned card still has some value and PPP has now utilising that by starting (announcing) some projects in Rural Sindh. You will see more utilisation of this card near election.
The question is: had other parties (who remained in power in past) taken steps that could enhance Sindhis' trust for them. IMO, the answer is no and therefore People of Sindh like all other Pakistanis have no option but to choose the option what they consider less harmful.
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
There is a strong factor of incompetence in governance which is bringing the PPP down. I will recall your attention to Bill Clinton's remark.."It's still the economy stupid." PPP has failed miserably to deliver on that front in past 3 1/2 years. NS was banking on the stupidity of the present government to become popular.. but I guess this strategy has misfired badly. As the present government is getting unpopular, NS popularity graph is also going down rapidly.. as people believe both of them are a part of the problem.. and people have started to believe NS is not an alternate to PPP.
Its now true for all opposition parties / allies to Government that if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
There is a strong factor of incompetence in governance which is bringing the PPP down. I will recall your attention to Bill Clinton's remark.."It's still the economy stupid." PPP has failed miserably to deliver on that front in past 3 1/2 years. NS was banking on the stupidity of the present government to become popular.. but I guess this strategy has misfired badly. As the present government is getting unpopular, NS popularity graph is also going down rapidly.. as people believe both of them are a part of the problem.. and people have started to believe NS is not an alternate to PPP.
Present upsurge in PTI popularity has more to do with the "nalaique" of the present rulers rather than establishment, his program to bring a change, or people joining him..
There is no doubt that IK is being considered as a real popular leader in Pakistan at the moment.. i don't know how this will actually translate in the real electoral politics.. but there is no doubt there are a lot of common people actually supporting him aggressively.
You talk academically.
PML N is facing result of a war between money king of Pakistan and Ch Nisar . I have posted some thing about on a thread about SS and Nisar meeting Kiani but that was closed . About PPP you are 50 % right and that is too result of effort of Zardari to having full personal control on party. I have been on PTI dharna on 14th August this year and have been watching closely all before that , What made it popular after 14th August , It is very easy to know. Establishment have permanent touch with many and they only have to tell them about their 'Manzoor e Nazar' . Rest is easy . However there is something els than establishment ,which know better every thing .
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
Knowing Zardari they will last their full term. I have little love for the PPP but they must complete their full term. And then there should be a smooth transition of power.
Re: PPP’s downfall imminent?
PPP par aik Zardaari he bhaari hay :cobra:
BTW PPP is also a family party and when there ll be a chair person out side of Bhutto family then i’ll say its Peoples Party else its Bhutto family party. Bhutto, Bhutto Daughter, Bhutto son-in-law, Bhutto’s grand son and so on 
Re: PPP's downfall imminent?
I'm eager to hear from people of Sindh to say 'Hum ne Bhuttos ka theka nahin le rakha hai'. Enough of family politics. Bhutto is not the name to guarantee Roti, Kapda aur Makaan.