Is this guy for real? Quoting a 14th century Despot (I’m not name calling, that was Manuel’s official title…), who himself was into the game of empire-building, and faulting Muslims and Muhammad for Jihad?
This exposes a very entrenched duplicity within the Western mindset. When they fight, it’s all good…if Muslims do it…it must be evil and bad. Sheesh…I should be angry, but the comment made by the pope, who himself is a tacit (if not overt) supporter of the War on Terror ™, just can’t be taken seriously.
If indeed we’re going to have any dialogue with this guy, I think our world leaders should make it abundantly clear that this kind of hypocrisy just can’t be taken seriously, no matter what our own faults are.
I feel its fear creeping into Pope also, fear of what. The answer is most of the europeans are reverting back to Islam, by passing such statement Pope wants to extinguish that left out fire also.
Anyways i see fear in them and not hope
Religions are many, but in Truth there is only one Religion of Allaah thats Islam.
I don't think it's fear yet...and his primary concern was his irrelevance. The vast majority of his speech dealt with the decline of faith in the West. It was, in essence, a long whine.
His mentioning of Islam, aside from the silly pot shot, was to make the assertion that it's this dissociation between society and faith in the West that is making dialogue with Islam difficult.
I'd suggest ignoring very real complaints of duplicity, in particular his inability of seeing obvious paralelles between contemporary Muslim and Christian behavior, moves this guy farther into irrelevence. At the very least unworthy to start up any kind of 'dialogue'.
What I don't appreciate is being lied to. Here is man saying war, in particular "holy" war, is a concept that is irrational...but is all too ready to cheer on a war fought by his home team. At least, he has yet to come out and oppose spreading democracy by the gun...which is what the stated Western agenda is (at least in Iraq).
Is there any possibility of getting a Quaker as the next pope? I mean, at least those guys aren't hypocritical...
I hope Muslims; however, react sensibly and get their message across in an appropriate manner.
The proper response should attack the institution of the Papacy itself. How this prada and gucci-wearing shmuck, who represents 1 billion people (half of whom are probably below the poverty line), who proclaims to be the infallible voice of God on earth, has the audacity to talk about ANYONE in a negative light is beyond us. He should not be relevant, and rather, should be treated like the git he is. LOL, with all due respect, of course.
Nothing would tick the Church off more than cutting ties with the Vatican and restricting any and all dialogue strictly with secular state representatives (the Vatican is currently on this whole anti-secular stint right now).
It would also suffice to point out that this Pope has come out in favor of the War on terror, and a previous pope was supportive of the war effort during WWII, so religious sanction for war is not unknown to the Papacy. Let us ignore the fact that the Emperor he quoted existed during a time when the Church had a very strong concept of Holy War. His whole argument hinges on a mischaracterization of Jihad, and aside from his blatant hypocrisy, this too should be pointed out.
He said a stupid thing, and so no better reaction than making him look stupid..
He said a stupid thing, and so no better reaction than making him look stupid..
Not any more stuipd than the interpretation and knee jerk reaction by many. Or any more stupid than belittling him, his office and his character. After reading crap like this, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the whiners demanding an apology. Get a grip and get a clue. Stop insulting others while expecting divine respect for you and yours.
^So pope insulting muslims is justified, and despite being a person so close to God, he shudn't apologize for insulting anothers faith? Maybe he shud clear up things.
What was he trying to say? N I'm not saying defame him, mayb just clarify what he meant.
"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the Pope said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached,"' he quoted the emperor as saying. "The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable," the Pope said. He did not relate the Persian scholar's response to the emperor. "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul," he added.
The thing is that he used sumething that insults Islam and Muslims to say sumthing where he cud have just quoted that that spreading faith thru violence is something unreasonable, why he chose to say the part that insults us is beyond me and many others.
Relax...it's all in jest dude...if you wish to carry on his reasoning, feel free...if you're simply going to defend this man's alleged character or the worth of his office on merit of...well...your say, then really, you're opines are as irrelevant as the Pope's.
The context of the discussion was the irrationality of spreading faith through the use of force. Then he goes and quotes a 14th century Despot (again, not me name calling...that was his title) on his thoughts of Muhammad (pbuh), which were simply that he brought nothing but evil. Excuse me? How the hell is that an academic argument?
I've read the statement in context, and really...the quote was out of the blue...and really only admitted to the ignorance of Despot Manuel's conception on the Islamic conceptions of Jihad. Something we can perhaps forgive Manuel, as his imperial ambitions were thwarted by the onslaught of the Ottoman's (Manuel was NOT a pacifist, he simply spoke out against forced conversions, which many Muslims can agree with...establishing the supremacy of rule for the sake of ideology, though, is something Manuel practiced, along with his Muslim contemporaries).
Would you also care to speak on the blatant hypocrisy of his position, vis-a-vis the Catholic Church's stance on forced conversion of infidel's in the New World (a policy that lasted up to the 19th century), not to mention the crusades, or even the more apologetic Just War Theory?
the pope has done a very stupid job of quoting the wrong text at the wrong time..even though he said "I quote" twice to make sure that people wont take those words as his, yet it was stupid of him. first, when you quote someone, you are almost always in favor of it unless you say otherwise. second, he knows that the tensions are high between muslims and yet he has done that; john paul would never have had done that.
might be that the evangelist fervor has gotten to his head too or that he does not know how to handle the papacy, being very new to it; either way he should have been very careful with his remarks.
yeah i agree i hope us muslims dont shame ourselves by acting in a bad manner end of day we will only be putting our name to shame n that is what we r not, ashamed....muslims should act peacefully n not in a manner where ppl r killed after all allah swt created mankind to live n not to be killed hence im against all violence against muslims n others
mind i wont forget to add what i said in my last message pope ko sazaa allah taalah deyn gey bas ek dafa jaie jahaannum mein ...n b4 ne1 comments he quoted some 1 i dnt care he shudnt have that only stirs up hatred i mean im sure no religion would like it if we quoted some bad things surely ull understand my point of view.
i just don't get it ? he sounded like insecure or have some kind of complex ?? does he ever realize what his position/ importance is ?? wasn't he trying to be defensive for some reason ?? and for quotes y didn't he refer his holy book?? don't know what to say .......
but sure know how poor muslims r going to suffer while protesting against his disrespectful remarks
Not that I’m preaching anyone, but I would like to have all GS members to listen and see this video of the Friday Sermon by Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad - Supreme Head of Ahmadiyya Muslim COmmunity. He goes one by one to answer all of the sickness came out of Pope’s mouth, disregard he is quoting someone.
Again, does not matter, if you call your self a Suni, Shia, Wahabi or Ahmadi - It is our combined duty to the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and Islam to defend it and bring forth the meaning and teachings of true Islam.
I am hoping that you view this video and other material with open mind.